Oh I dont think you are fooling anyone anymore.
As for casting my vote, I did. I voted you can not pay a satoshi in dividends before you made whole all your creditors and customers. Anyone who paid you an insurance fee for an insurance that will no longer exist will have to be reimbursed first and my guess is you are utterly unable to do that, much less have anything left to pay your shareholders.
Topic: general - page 2. (Read 4311 times)
a. We invested a large chunk into BMF and NYAN, which have not defaulted. In fact, NYAN recently bought back almost all it's shares at 1.
b. We got ~75% of our money back from DeadTerra and
c. We got ~80% of our money back from Starfish Bank
d. We got ~25% of our money back from imsaguy
e. We got 0% of our money back from hashking
b. We got ~75% of our money back from DeadTerra and
c. We got ~80% of our money back from Starfish Bank
d. We got ~25% of our money back from imsaguy
e. We got 0% of our money back from hashking
So you insured ponzi's and put the insurance premiums in other ponzi's and you are surprised that didnt work out?
ROFL!
From shareholder perspective it might not be a scam, but at least a badly run business that would have had (and still has imho) much more potential. I mean, you KNOW that defaults might happen, you insured against them... and then you are surprised that they happen more frequently than you thought? Just increase prices for insurance contracts, do stricter contracts and don't pay out on every.single.instance (is there a list somewhere where people claimed to get money from you and if/how much they got?).
Insuring against default is a braindead idea with zero potential. It can not work, it doesnt make any sense. First of all you will just attract scams and ponzi's that will use it to buy themselves some credibility, and you are guaranteed to lose money on it. Secondly, even for legitimate companies its simply stupid.
Example; usagi "insured" bakewell. What it effectively did was collect a % of bakewell's working capital to be paid out if bakewell defaulted. Think it through; that capital is unavailable to bakewell and is not producing any ROI. If shareholders would buy proportionally less shares in bakewell and keep the difference in their wallets, they would achieve the exact same thing, except they wouldnt be relying on usagi to pay it back (and be able to pay it back), and the funds would be available to them at any point. Why would you want usagi to keep your coins safe for you at zero % interest and with absolutely no guarantee you will ever see them back?
From shareholder perspective it might not be a scam, but at least a badly run business that would have had (and still has imho) much more potential. I mean, you KNOW that defaults might happen, you insured against them... and then you are surprised that they happen more frequently than you thought? Just increase prices for insurance contracts, do stricter contracts and don't pay out on every.single.instance (is there a list somewhere where people claimed to get money from you and if/how much they got?).
It may have saved some people's money from your lovely USD based lol-accounting that suggests that a 40% BTC loss = a profit in USD)
For the sake of your shareholders, you should probably close it down. Now. (NYAN, too)
Wait a second - CPA is valued by usagi in USD, but signs contracts (that are actually quite cheap to get) valued in BTC?!For the sake of your shareholders, you should probably close it down. Now. (NYAN, too)
I'd like to have confirmation on that by usagi...
However, I did NOT make money (by far not) with CPA, so I don't really get the following:
Yes, we made some money too. It wasn't all loss. Don't forget, we made money on the premiums too. But that's not the point.
All this says is that some people actually bothered to pay for your service and their contract ended without a default event or other insurance case. In the big picture however it seems you lost money in total and now (since it's not "your" money anyways) lack the initiative to sell more contracts and instead want to realize this loss and close shop. Everyone was very nice to each other and especially pirateat40 as long as he was "profitable", remember? Try to defend him now and watch the sh*tstorm grow by the minute... noone likes to loose money.In the end I'd say either YES, if you pay out the IPO price as final dividend, leaving shareholders unharmed or NO, if you just want to get out. You carry a responsibility and the Bitcoin community is also larger than this forum, just as a hint.
Being YARR's customer, I can say Usagi has earned some trust, for me at least, as he paid out all his bonds as promised (same thing about Goat btw, re his insured PPT). I hope at least some other YARR's clients have similar feeling, so it's not really like "no one seems to trust [Usagi]".
Actually amusingly enough at some point right after the launch for the S.DICE passthrough the operator couldn't connect to GLBSE or w/e and the price there shot up to 0.007 even though it was pretty clear that in no event would anything over maybe .004 or so make any sense whatsoever.
In short GLBSE is rather poor at pricing things.
In short GLBSE is rather poor at pricing things.
The only relevant price is the underlying security, not some crappy passthru in an illiquid market (5 day volume of 1.2 bitcoins) that has a spread of 80% of the ask.
Compare it to S.MPOE, (5 day volume of ~3600 bitcoins), current spread of 0.6% of the ask. 3000x the liquidity, 130x smaller spread.
Perhaps this example simply illustrates the power of GLBSE to turn a dividend producing and valuation rising security into a loser.
And pay we did. We paid over 1,000 bitcoins to one guy, 250 to another, we paid over 2,500 bitcoins to cover YARR, and so forth. We paid out significant sums on options contracts, on hardware and power outages to mining companies, and so on and so forth. Yes, we made some money too. It wasn't all loss. Don't forget, we made money on the premiums too. But that's not the point.
As it turned out, it was the general community that failed CPA. People on the board didn't even want their name associated as members.
The problem would be that you've taken in what looks like 20k BTC capital, have paid out ~1k in dividends, ~2k in claims to outsiders and have maybe 10k worth of assets left (could as well be 5k, who knows in a 10 BTC depth "market" such as the Global Scam Exchange).
So now, you've spent 10% of your take in buying credibility as you yourself admit, and that leaves a hole of about 5 to 10k BTC to be shouldered by the community. The community is predictably not happy about this, which you call "it failing CPA". Yes, the community "has failed" some braindamaged scheme which only makes sense if the community were to agree with your own regard of yourself.
As the community pretty much thinks you're dirt, it's obviously not very happy to have poured 60 to 120,000 USD into dirt. Is this really a surprise?
Make people money, they'll like you. Lose their capital, they'll dislike you. Socialite or no socialite, them's the breaks.
In this 4 month interval S.MPOE went from ~10k satoshi a share to ~40k satoshi a share (+300%) and paid out in dividends 76.60729808 + 792.34834548 + 534.33526152 + 619.51519201 + 2,142.90254425 + 293.32991135 = 4,459.03855269 BTC. That's about on the level of the capital you lost.
In the same 4 month interval S.BVPS went from ~220k satoshi a share to ~360k satoshi a share (+50%) and paid 32.165 + 20.165 + 55.55333216 + 35 = 142.88333216 BTC in dividends.
The list goes on and on. Smarten up, you're not yet ready to play the investor with OPM.
If you bought the MPOE passthrough on glbse last month you would have gone from 1.5 to .3
By your reasoning this is also a scam.
Compare it to S.MPOE, (5 day volume of ~3600 bitcoins), current spread of 0.6% of the ask. 3000x the liquidity, 130x smaller spread.
Perhaps this example simply illustrates the power of GLBSE to turn a dividend producing and valuation rising security into a loser.
And pay we did. We paid over 1,000 bitcoins to one guy, 250 to another, we paid over 2,500 bitcoins to cover YARR, and so forth. We paid out significant sums on options contracts, on hardware and power outages to mining companies, and so on and so forth. Yes, we made some money too. It wasn't all loss. Don't forget, we made money on the premiums too. But that's not the point.
As it turned out, it was the general community that failed CPA. People on the board didn't even want their name associated as members.
The problem would be that you've taken in what looks like 20k BTC capital, have paid out ~1k in dividends, ~2k in claims to outsiders and have maybe 10k worth of assets left (could as well be 5k, who knows in a 10 BTC depth "market" such as the Global Scam Exchange).
So now, you've spent 10% of your take in buying credibility as you yourself admit, and that leaves a hole of about 5 to 10k BTC to be shouldered by the community. The community is predictably not happy about this, which you call "it failing CPA". Yes, the community "has failed" some braindamaged scheme which only makes sense if the community were to agree with your own regard of yourself.
As the community pretty much thinks you're dirt, it's obviously not very happy to have poured 60 to 120,000 USD into dirt. Is this really a surprise?
Make people money, they'll like you. Lose their capital, they'll dislike you. Socialite or no socialite, them's the breaks.
You have terminal brain cancer. EVERYTHING lost money. Everything. Unfortunate for you.
In this 4 month interval S.MPOE went from ~10k satoshi a share to ~40k satoshi a share (+300%) and paid out in dividends 76.60729808 + 792.34834548 + 534.33526152 + 619.51519201 + 2,142.90254425 + 293.32991135 = 4,459.03855269 BTC. That's about on the level of the capital you lost.
In the same 4 month interval S.BVPS went from ~220k satoshi a share to ~360k satoshi a share (+50%) and paid 32.165 + 20.165 + 55.55333216 + 35 = 142.88333216 BTC in dividends.
The list goes on and on. Smarten up, you're not yet ready to play the investor with OPM.
If you bought the MPOE passthrough on glbse last month you would have gone from 1.5 to .3
By your reasoning this is also a scam.
Here is the other passthrough - to BitVPS
Glbse passthroughs are irrelevant; there's no volume in that market. You could have had your passthrough shares turned in for the genuine article, in which case you'd be a lot better off.
Yes, CPA should close.
While I'm sure you regard me as one of the "trolls," I'm also quite sure that your blame of the community for all CPA's ills is ludicrous. There's a reason I never invested in CPA in the first place - I had no confidence in your ability to run such a company. There were then, and more so now, too many red flags about your behavior to trust you. Your behaviour suggests you're either incompetent, or running a scam (or both?) Now that you're hysterical over people trolling your threads with financial facts, you're closing up shop? hmmmmm.
If there's anything left of CPA it should be liquidated and distributed to creditors and shareholders. Perhaps then you might be able to focus on one of your other ventures, and salvage something out of this.
You've blamed the market - but you're only in one "market" - you've ignored most of the trading volume in bitcoin related securities. Not only was I able to make money on GLBSE in a down market, but the value I had in securities on other markets was not affected by the Ponzi shitstorm on GLBSE (which is largely centered around usagi and pirate) You clearly do not seem to be actively pursuing all avenues to protect, and, god forbid, increase shareholder value. Trolling here and IRC doesn't do shit to increase it. Being a socialite doesn't do shit to increase it. Investing in companies that A) aren't also owned by you B) aren't invested in the same crap you are and C) actually make money actually can increase shareholder value. But that's in really short supply on GLBSE. And, after GLBSE has come unraveled (thanks in no small part to you) there really won't be anything to invest in there for a long time to come. Frankly, it's my opinion that you're a ponzi operator, using a multiheaded scheme, and acquiring new capital by acquiring other companies and funds at this point so that it's not obvious that payouts come from new investment. The Central Ponzi Authority. Mind you - I'm not trolling you. You may not be doing this intentionally, and may not be operating a scam. But, truly, many ponzi schemes do not start as scams. But, you also do match most of the criteria for a likely ponzi scheme. (for example, I don't care if you've IDed to nefario, I don't trust him...I want to know who you are before I can invest in your operation....not trolling, just the way it is....your refusal to do this is but one red flag, and there are several)
Perhaps if you spent more time making money, and less time fucking off worrying about "trolls" on IRC & this forum, you'd not be closing shop. Perhaps, if you stopped regarding everyone as trolls, you'd answer questions reasonably, and provide the confidence in your companies that is sorely lacking. Instead, you rant and rave, and accuse people of being scammers. (usually a sign of what's going on inside of the ranting person, fwiw) How did that whole escapade bolster your shareholders' value? Oh. It didn't. It may have saved some people's money from your lovely USD based lol-accounting that suggests that a 40% BTC loss = a profit in USD)
For the sake of your shareholders, you should probably close it down. Now. (NYAN, too)
While I'm sure you regard me as one of the "trolls," I'm also quite sure that your blame of the community for all CPA's ills is ludicrous. There's a reason I never invested in CPA in the first place - I had no confidence in your ability to run such a company. There were then, and more so now, too many red flags about your behavior to trust you. Your behaviour suggests you're either incompetent, or running a scam (or both?) Now that you're hysterical over people trolling your threads with financial facts, you're closing up shop? hmmmmm.
If there's anything left of CPA it should be liquidated and distributed to creditors and shareholders. Perhaps then you might be able to focus on one of your other ventures, and salvage something out of this.
You've blamed the market - but you're only in one "market" - you've ignored most of the trading volume in bitcoin related securities. Not only was I able to make money on GLBSE in a down market, but the value I had in securities on other markets was not affected by the Ponzi shitstorm on GLBSE (which is largely centered around usagi and pirate) You clearly do not seem to be actively pursuing all avenues to protect, and, god forbid, increase shareholder value. Trolling here and IRC doesn't do shit to increase it. Being a socialite doesn't do shit to increase it. Investing in companies that A) aren't also owned by you B) aren't invested in the same crap you are and C) actually make money actually can increase shareholder value. But that's in really short supply on GLBSE. And, after GLBSE has come unraveled (thanks in no small part to you) there really won't be anything to invest in there for a long time to come. Frankly, it's my opinion that you're a ponzi operator, using a multiheaded scheme, and acquiring new capital by acquiring other companies and funds at this point so that it's not obvious that payouts come from new investment. The Central Ponzi Authority. Mind you - I'm not trolling you. You may not be doing this intentionally, and may not be operating a scam. But, truly, many ponzi schemes do not start as scams. But, you also do match most of the criteria for a likely ponzi scheme. (for example, I don't care if you've IDed to nefario, I don't trust him...I want to know who you are before I can invest in your operation....not trolling, just the way it is....your refusal to do this is but one red flag, and there are several)
Perhaps if you spent more time making money, and less time fucking off worrying about "trolls" on IRC & this forum, you'd not be closing shop. Perhaps, if you stopped regarding everyone as trolls, you'd answer questions reasonably, and provide the confidence in your companies that is sorely lacking. Instead, you rant and rave, and accuse people of being scammers. (usually a sign of what's going on inside of the ranting person, fwiw) How did that whole escapade bolster your shareholders' value? Oh. It didn't. It may have saved some people's money from your lovely USD based lol-accounting that suggests that a 40% BTC loss = a profit in USD)
For the sake of your shareholders, you should probably close it down. Now. (NYAN, too)
Here is the other passthrough - to BitVPS
And pay we did. We paid over 1,000 bitcoins to one guy, 250 to another, we paid over 2,500 bitcoins to cover YARR, and so forth. We paid out significant sums on options contracts, on hardware and power outages to mining companies, and so on and so forth. Yes, we made some money too. It wasn't all loss. Don't forget, we made money on the premiums too. But that's not the point.
As it turned out, it was the general community that failed CPA. People on the board didn't even want their name associated as members.
The problem would be that you've taken in what looks like 20k BTC capital, have paid out ~1k in dividends, ~2k in claims to outsiders and have maybe 10k worth of assets left (could as well be 5k, who knows in a 10 BTC depth "market" such as the Global Scam Exchange).
So now, you've spent 10% of your take in buying credibility as you yourself admit, and that leaves a hole of about 5 to 10k BTC to be shouldered by the community. The community is predictably not happy about this, which you call "it failing CPA". Yes, the community "has failed" some braindamaged scheme which only makes sense if the community were to agree with your own regard of yourself.
As the community pretty much thinks you're dirt, it's obviously not very happy to have poured 60 to 120,000 USD into dirt. Is this really a surprise?
Make people money, they'll like you. Lose their capital, they'll dislike you. Socialite or no socialite, them's the breaks.
You have terminal brain cancer. EVERYTHING lost money. Everything. Unfortunate for you.
In this 4 month interval S.MPOE went from ~10k satoshi a share to ~40k satoshi a share (+300%) and paid out in dividends 76.60729808 + 792.34834548 + 534.33526152 + 619.51519201 + 2,142.90254425 + 293.32991135 = 4,459.03855269 BTC. That's about on the level of the capital you lost.
In the same 4 month interval S.BVPS went from ~220k satoshi a share to ~360k satoshi a share (+50%) and paid 32.165 + 20.165 + 55.55333216 + 35 = 142.88333216 BTC in dividends.
The list goes on and on. Smarten up, you're not yet ready to play the investor with OPM.
If you bought the MPOE passthrough on glbse last month you would have gone from 1.5 to .3
By your reasoning this is also a scam.
The point is tho that I tried. The plan was, we would expose ourself to a reasonable but not overbearing sum of pirate default risk (say, 1000 bitcoins) and then when pirate blew up as everyone knew it would, we would be the heroes and pay out.
And pay we did. We paid over 1,000 bitcoins to one guy, 250 to another, we paid over 2,500 bitcoins to cover YARR, and so forth. We paid out significant sums on options contracts, on hardware and power outages to mining companies, and so on and so forth. Yes, we made some money too. It wasn't all loss. Don't forget, we made money on the premiums too. But that's not the point.
As it turned out, it was the general community that failed CPA. People on the board didn't even want their name associated as members.
And pay we did. We paid over 1,000 bitcoins to one guy, 250 to another, we paid over 2,500 bitcoins to cover YARR, and so forth. We paid out significant sums on options contracts, on hardware and power outages to mining companies, and so on and so forth. Yes, we made some money too. It wasn't all loss. Don't forget, we made money on the premiums too. But that's not the point.
As it turned out, it was the general community that failed CPA. People on the board didn't even want their name associated as members.
The problem would be that you've taken in what looks like 20k BTC capital, have paid out ~1k in dividends, ~2k in claims to outsiders and have maybe 10k worth of assets left (could as well be 5k, who knows in a 10 BTC depth "market" such as the Global Scam Exchange).
So now, you've spent 10% of your take in buying credibility as you yourself admit, and that leaves a hole of about 5 to 10k BTC to be shouldered by the community. The community is predictably not happy about this, which you call "it failing CPA". Yes, the community "has failed" some braindamaged scheme which only makes sense if the community were to agree with your own regard of yourself.
As the community pretty much thinks you're dirt, it's obviously not very happy to have poured 60 to 120,000 USD into dirt. Is this really a surprise?
Make people money, they'll like you. Lose their capital, they'll dislike you. Socialite or no socialite, them's the breaks.
You have terminal brain cancer. EVERYTHING lost money. Everything. Unfortunate for you.
In this 4 month interval S.MPOE went from ~10k satoshi a share to ~40k satoshi a share (+300%) and paid out in dividends 76.60729808 + 792.34834548 + 534.33526152 + 619.51519201 + 2,142.90254425 + 293.32991135 = 4,459.03855269 BTC. That's about on the level of the capital you lost.
In the same 4 month interval S.BVPS went from ~220k satoshi a share to ~360k satoshi a share (+50%) and paid 32.165 + 20.165 + 55.55333216 + 35 = 142.88333216 BTC in dividends.
The list goes on and on. Smarten up, you're not yet ready to play the investor with OPM.
What is all the fuss about? Seriously, seems like a few trolls wanted to ruin usagi.
Now Goat's off GLBSE and we're fucked because we had TYGRR A.
Now FPGAMINING has gone from .9 to .45 and we're fucked because our total exposure (CPA/BMF/NYAN) was 600 odd shares.
Again and again. Feedzebirds. BDT. Rebate. other funds losing x y and z.
NYAN will likely have to be shut down because everything on GLBSE is crashing.
Now FPGAMINING has gone from .9 to .45 and we're fucked because our total exposure (CPA/BMF/NYAN) was 600 odd shares.
Again and again. Feedzebirds. BDT. Rebate. other funds losing x y and z.
NYAN will likely have to be shut down because everything on GLBSE is crashing.
I don't want to rock the boat too much, as I'm still sitting in it with LTC-MINING and my personal investments. But Nefario's handling of the Goat situation has been really frustrating. People are tripping over themselves to get off GLBSE.
Its more difficult if you rely on other companies for dividends and everything ends up scamming you.
Now Goat's off GLBSE and we're fucked because we had TYGRR A.
Now FPGAMINING has gone from .9 to .45 and we're fucked because our total exposure (CPA/BMF/NYAN) was 600 odd shares.
Again and again. Feedzebirds. BDT. Rebate. other funds losing x y and z.
NYAN will likely have to be shut down because everything on GLBSE is crashing.
Now FPGAMINING has gone from .9 to .45 and we're fucked because our total exposure (CPA/BMF/NYAN) was 600 odd shares.
Again and again. Feedzebirds. BDT. Rebate. other funds losing x y and z.
NYAN will likely have to be shut down because everything on GLBSE is crashing.
I don't want to rock the boat too much, as I'm still sitting in it with LTC-MINING and my personal investments. But Nefario's handling of the Goat situation has been really frustrating. People are tripping over themselves to get off GLBSE.
You can not pay your shareholders a satoshi before you settled with your creditors and customers who paid insurance fees and have unpaid claims. CPA is almost certainly bankrupt, who would have seen that coming, a business based on insuring ponzi's and scams; tough luck for your shareholders.
If you are going to close shop your creditors and insured customers will be first in line, shareholders are last. Of course with your obscure CPA bookkeeping no one will know for sure how much you put in your own pocket or diverted to your other companies.
If you are going to close shop your creditors and insured customers will be first in line, shareholders are last. Of course with your obscure CPA bookkeeping no one will know for sure how much you put in your own pocket or diverted to your other companies.
I thought OBSI and CPA were run by the same guy?
Not just that but it's been one shitstorm after another with companies defaulting left right and center.
Quote from: usagi
Quote from: cunicula on June 06, 2012, 03:17:51 PM
***ignored***
You're right -- there is no obvious way for us to diversify our risk here -- to you. That doesn't mean we're a scam, it just means you don't understand how this works.
***ignored***
You're right -- there is no obvious way for us to diversify our risk here -- to you. That doesn't mean we're a scam, it just means you don't understand how this works.
Thanks for ignoring me. It is pleasureful to watch you go down. I shouldn't have tried to interfere with natural selection.
Should CPA close down operations and buy back shares / make a final dividend payment?
Yes.
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