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Topic: GHash.IO and double-spending against BetCoin Dice - page 7. (Read 112009 times)

legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
CEX.io admin in chat specified that as the 51% network dominance was reached they will announce we will be able to point our contracts at any pool. Now weather they mean any BITCOIN POOL or any SHA-256 is still unknown.

I firmly believe a money making venture will not shoot themselves in the face by destroying the network marketplace in which they are profiting and succeeding. There is no gain in destroying bitcoin now, unless they have some "counter agenda" that is as hilarious as hollywood or obamacare.

They are not a government, entertainment producer nor 'BigPharma.'

Just my 2 mbits.

Consider how this may not really be any better after all.

Having >50% of the hash power and pointing it to other pools simply means that they can point it back at will.  Worse still they can in fact entice others to join ghash.io by artificially reducing their percentage by switching some to other pools and then switch back again anytime some shenanigans suits them.

By selling contracts, they have garnered this control.

The decentralized trustless network is becoming centralized and is now requiring trust.  The erosion of some of the core merits of the bitcoin protocol is a serious matter.  It is astounding that a summary report of an "internal investigation" is considered authoritative and exculpatory.
It merely stated that "it was the old guys, not us" and gave no new transparency or plan to change anything, no new controls implemented.

Miners, take a look at what you are doing and how, please.  We are in your hands.


newbie
Activity: 27
Merit: 0
CEX.io admin in chat specified that as the 51% network dominance was reached they will announce we will be able to point our contracts at any pool. Now weather they mean any BITCOIN POOL or any SHA-256 is still unknown.

I firmly believe a money making venture will not shoot themselves in the face by destroying the network marketplace in which they are profiting and succeeding. There is no gain in destroying bitcoin now, unless they have some "counter agenda" that is as hilarious as hollywood or obamacare.

They are not a government, entertainment producer nor 'BigPharma.'

Just my 2 mbits.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
Bitcoin exists exactly because we cannot trust no one. That's why it exists and why it was made how it is made. We must suppose that any vulnerability will be exploited eventually. People can be corrupted.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Carpe Diem
so GHash owner actually attempted a double spend and is showing no worries about the fact that they are approaching 51%?  What a selfish, and stupid, person.  Although as a previous poster mentioned, maybe they don't care if they ruin BTC by going 51%.

Yes, man owning the world biggest mining pool is stupid?!? And, yes, he doesn't care if he ruins his bread & butter business - Bitcoin?!?

I'm not fan of what is happening (single pool reaching close to 51%), but please think twice before writing such a stupid things. If GHash.IO tries to double spend it practically means the end of their primary source of income. Nobody is that stupid. It's not nice to be in somebodys mercy, but this situation is far from critical. Everyone who is aware of what is happening will switch pools if he can, and in a month there would be much more GHs deployed which can reduce their percentage easily. Bitcoin was in much worse trouble before, remember?

SOmeone above laid out a VERY possible explanation of why they might do this, and someone above has now added another possible explanation.  So it's not "such stupid things."  And there is evidence they tried to double spend!  so...I stand by my post.  I mean where is the owner to at least say "don't worry"?
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
Well i have to say that if it is true then they would disguise their blocks so it does not look like they are making them and are having such a high % of the total hashrate.

We shouldn't trust to blockchain.info stats also...
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
Well i have to say that if it is true then they would disguise their blocks so it does not look like they are making them and are having such a high % of the total hashrate.
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1075
^ Will code for Bitcoins
Yes, man owning the world biggest mining pool is stupid?!? And, yes, he doesn't care if he ruins his bread & butter business - Bitcoin?!?

Who said they r not hired by an ABC agency?

Trolling or serious?
Actually it is a very possible situation.

When two hero members seriously consider this as a possibility it's time for me to shut up.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
Yes, man owning the world biggest mining pool is stupid?!? And, yes, he doesn't care if he ruins his bread & butter business - Bitcoin?!?

Who said they r not hired by an ABC agency?

Trolling or serious?
Actually it is a very possible situation.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
Trolling or serious?

Just show a possible explanation.
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1075
^ Will code for Bitcoins
Yes, man owning the world biggest mining pool is stupid?!? And, yes, he doesn't care if he ruins his bread & butter business - Bitcoin?!?

Who said they r not hired by an ABC agency?

Trolling or serious?
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
Yes, man owning the world biggest mining pool is stupid?!? And, yes, he doesn't care if he ruins his bread & butter business - Bitcoin?!?

Who said they r not hired by an ABC agency?
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1075
^ Will code for Bitcoins
so GHash owner actually attempted a double spend and is showing no worries about the fact that they are approaching 51%?  What a selfish, and stupid, person.  Although as a previous poster mentioned, maybe they don't care if they ruin BTC by going 51%.

Yes, man owning the world biggest mining pool is stupid?!? And, yes, he doesn't care if he ruins his bread & butter business - Bitcoin?!?

I'm not fan of what is happening (single pool reaching close to 51%), but please think twice before writing such a stupid things. If GHash.IO tries to double spend it practically means the end of their primary source of income. Nobody is that stupid. It's not nice to be in somebodys mercy, but this situation is far from critical. Everyone who is aware of what is happening will switch pools if he can, and in a month there would be much more GHs deployed which can reduce their percentage easily. Bitcoin was in much worse trouble before, remember?
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1358
so GHash owner actually attempted a double spend and is showing no worries about the fact that they are approaching 51%?  What a selfish, and stupid, person.  Although as a previous poster mentioned, maybe they don't care if they ruin BTC by going 51%.
IQ approximation is possible.

IQ = 120/ (THashPS^(1/7))

newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
The possibility of this happening was known since the very beginning so why are you all freaking out now when it's too late? No central bank you say? The entity with the most computing power is the central bank. Will be interesting what happens now.

I'm not.

First time was when BTCguild started hitting 50-51% then locked people from signing up in response till it evened out again; second was the feathercoin hit that showed exactly what could happen, never a matter of if, but when and how we respond to avoid it in the future.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Carpe Diem
so GHash owner actually attempted a double spend and is showing no worries about the fact that they are approaching 51%?  What a selfish, and stupid, person.  Although as a previous poster mentioned, maybe they don't care if they ruin BTC by going 51%.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
Maybe you can help me.  I don't get why selfish mining is a problem.  To me it seems like a miner is getting a head start on the next block at the risk of losing the current block.

If this is unethical (and I'm not sure it is), it is only unethical toward other miners.  It doesn't disturb the functionality of Bitcoin from a user's perspective.

It lowers "51% attack" threshold to 33%.
member
Activity: 93
Merit: 10
Isn't this kind of centralized hashing power too dangerous, even way below 51%?

If u read about Selfish Mining u'll see that we already have a big problem.

Maybe you can help me.  I don't get why selfish mining is a problem.  To me it seems like a miner is getting a head start on the next block at the risk of losing the current block.

If this is unethical (and I'm not sure it is), it is only unethical toward other miners.  It doesn't disturb the functionality of Bitcoin from a user's perspective.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
Isn't this kind of centralized hashing power too dangerous, even way below 51%?

If u read about Selfish Mining u'll see that we already have a big problem.
full member
Activity: 174
Merit: 102
Isn't this kind of centralized hashing power too dangerous, even way below 51%?

Doesn't it gradually change from a "you may be successfull at tempering with the blockchain" to a "you are guaranteed to be successfull" @ 51% (or really anything above 50%)?
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
The possibility of this happening was known since the very beginning so why are you all freaking out now when it's too late? No central bank you say? The entity with the most computing power is the central bank. Will be interesting what happens now.
That's much worse than central bank. Central banks are a public companies... And those structures are regulated by law.

There is no law or public activity, so this "central bank" is able to do whatever the owner wants. And nobody can stop or regulate his activity. It's absolute monarchy as is.

+21'000'000
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