Topic: [GLBSE] BFLS - Bitcoin Mining & Sales - page 4. (Read 17867 times)

OK, I understand on the upgrade now, but I must have missed the motion or asking shareholders if they want minirigs in with BFLS.  When you made the order from BFL from the BFLS.FUTURES you stated that you had enough for a minirig and singles.  So I assumed that the minirig was going to be part of BFLS.

Indeed it is a welcome change who would have thought a straight forward honest proposal that continues to be so and I highly doubt he is first in line gigavps seems to have the inside track on the hardware from BFL, first with the singles he has rack full of them when everyone else has trouble getting even one then mini-rig first again I think it will be third time lucky as well...

This is actually an incredible deal. Inaba is fronting the prepay money to upgrade all the Singles and MiniRigs to ASIC. And Inaba is probably first in line to get the upgrades. So if you have BFLS or BFLS.RIG shares now, you will see a ~20x increase in dividends when ASIC comes out without having to put in more money. Thanks Inaba!

Yes, this is a much better deal then GIGAMINING!

If I understand it right, Inaba is intended to carry out a quite fair plan: the shareholders is and will be getting dividend payment until ASIC unit out ( since we all know quite well about the punctuality of BFL, this period may be longer than expected). When the ASIC out, the "company" pay Inaba shares to upgrade to ASIC. Then, the hash rate per share may be close to 10x as it is today.

BFLS revenue will not be rolled into ASICs, it will continue to pay out dividends as normal.  When I upgrade BFLS to ASIC, I will issue more shares to account for the additional cost of the hardware and double the "share" cost of a unit from 200 shares to approximately 450 shares (not set in stone yet) to account for the increase in the cost of the hardware/upgrade cost.

I have a few other ideas I will be mentioning at some point in the future on the direction to go with that as far as BFLS goes as well.

For BFLS.RIG, it will pay dividends.  It's basically the same as BFLS, just with Minirigs.  Same deal on the upgrade to ASIC as well.  Rollings BFLS and BFLS.RIG was shot down by most people, which is why it's separate... read a few pages back in the thread for peoples thoughts on that.

BFLS and RIG aren't really intended to be a highly traded commodity... I think most people are investing for the dividends.  The difference between BFLS/RIG and other offerings is that all the hardware is paid for up front, out of my pocket and I pay out on what the unit earns.  You are basically buying into the hardware, not hashrate.  When you buy the BFLS and RIG shares, you are buying already purchased hardware, not paying for the purchase of future hardware (with the exception of BFLS.FUTURES of course) that may or may not materialize. 

Will BFLS revenue also be reinvested to purchase ASICs?  If I read correctly BFLS.RIG will not pay dividends but instead reinvest the revenue into the purchase of ASICs.

I am surprised this asset does not have more demand for the BFLS asset.  The volume is pretty light.  Have you thought of just rolling the BFLS assets into each other so they are not competing with each other for volume?

I finally took delivery of the new BFL hardware.  Those of you wishing to convert BFLS.FUTURES, please contact me.  Include your user name on GLBSE and the number of shares you want to convert.

Then, transfer the BFLS.FUTURES shares back into the asset (or transfer them to me, GLBSE user name is, surprisingly "Inaba").  I will then issue you the appropriate BFLS shares.

Ok, I expect to have the additional Singles units next week, so I will be converting BFLS.FUTURES shares once I have the units in hand.

If/When I upgrade the Singles to the ASIC units, I will increase the amount of shares available according to the cost involved with upgrading (if I have to pay $600 to upgrade a unit, I will allocate another 200 shares per unit) and each unit will then require 400 shares to trade in for an ASIC unit.

On another note, I am going to be opening up BFLS.RIG for sale, here's how it's going to work:

I have two mini-rigs on order right now, I expect them to be available soon.  One unit is already spoken for through previous investments, the other unit is going to be put up as BFLS.RIG shares. The previously allocated unit will also have shares allocated to it, and the parties involved may or may not be selling their shares either immediately or in the future.  6058 shares will be allocated in total for a Minirig for a total of 12116 shares in RIG. 6058 shares can be traded in for the hardware.  Similar to the Singles, I will be keeping 15% of the shares on the second unit.

Once the details of the ASIC unit orders are publicly available, I will double the shares available for the Rigs and make them available as well, at that point, it will take 6058 x 2 = 12116 shares to convert your BFLS.RIG shares into a Rig/SC.

Dividends on RIG will be paid out the same way BFLS is currently paid, on a weekly basis and the amount will be what the unit(s) generate that week. Obviously, no dividends on RIG will be paid until I actually have the units in hand and they are mining.

Initial price on RIG shares will be between .5 and .7 BTC per share.  This includes a small premium due to the funds lost while my orders are in limbo, since the money has already been allocated and spent for the units.  RIG shares purchased are for a share of the unit, not to help fund the purchase of a unit, like many other offerings.  I will also be reinvesting the funds into the ASIC orders, which means the ASIC units will be "pre" purchased already, and you will be buying into already purchased units, not funding the purchase of ASIC units.  This is an important distinction, since it means you'll start generating revenue much faster than a unit you would be "funding" the purchase of.

I plan on offering this later today, but I would like to solicit comments at this time.  Also, should I start another thread or maintain it in this one?

As soon as BFL releases my remaining units, I will convert.  I sent an email this week to Sonny to see what was up, but I have yet to hear back from him.

how about the BFLS.Future? is there any sign of conversion?

Yes, once I have everything setup like I want it, I will be slowly figuring out what's the most efficient firmware for each single.

Inaba, regarding the BFLS Singles. Now that BFL has made new (faster) firmware available for the units, do you have any plans to flash some or all of them to a higher hashrate? I realize that not all Singles can handle that without throttling, but perhaps the climate in your DC is cool enough for them to operate at 864/872/880 or even 896.

This would be another way to increase dividend yield.

Indeed. Thank you Inaba, and my apologies for jumping to conclusions.

Excellent, I think that clarifies things very well!

GPUs aren't added to BFLS as backed hardware. The equivalent shares are added to me to make management easier.  I think maybe that's where the confusion lies - there is no distributed shares out there that are not backed by BFL singles.

Electricity/maintenance rates are not factored into the shares at all, only pure hashrate vs shares, which is what the BFLS shares are. The maintenance/electricity is already factored into the 170/200 share split per unit, so 200 shares = 826 MH/s, which includes all maintenance/operational costs.  Any additional costs from operating a GPU vs a BFL Single comes directly out of my pocket, not the BFLS dividends.

The "extra" shares that are currently showing are factored from my GPU farms at a rate of 826 MH/s per 200 shares, but this is purely because all the mining income is going to the same bucket and would be difficult to split out (I already tried to keep them separate and it was a nightmare accounting wise).  So all my mining income is put into GLBSE and then dividends are paid out there - it makes the accounting much simpler.

Because of the negative response to the GPUs backing BFLS, I have not converted BFLS Futures shares and am instead waiting on actual BFLS hardware - that's why there is still BFLS Futures shares outstanding.  I am the only one holding shares that are backed by GPUs and I will not be selling/distributing shares that are not backed by BFL hardware.

From the OP:


That would include electricity. I am also somewhat concerned that some of the hardware backing this is not singles as was indicated, but as long as Inaba provides the equivalent hashrate/profits and honors the trade-in option, the difference is functionally nonexistent.

That is reasonable, though I am surprised that GPUs are now part of BFLS.

My only concern would be if electricity costs are being taken out of BFLS gross profits. GPUs are much more power hungry than Singles so the presence of GPUs would drag net profits down. Depending on rates, a GPU's mining profits would be reduced by ~25% due to electricity cost. So, essentially, to net 826Mhps out of a GPU you'd actually need it to hash as 1100Mhps.

If this is the case, and you are paying for electricity out of BFLS gross profits, then I would submit that only 200 shares per 1100Mhps worth of GPUs should be allocated (not 200 per 826Mhps). Of course, the specific numbers depend on your electricity rates and the BTC exchange rate, but this is a reasonable ballpark.

The initial offering in the OP states that BFLS was an FPGA mining company and mentions Singles specifically. I think one of the reasons shareholders were attracted to this was specifically that there would be no GPUs involved, thus little overhead costs, and a high percentage of the gross profits would be distributed to shareholders rather than the electric company.

You had asked everyone's thoughts on adding GPUs to the BFLS farm before in this thread and I've presented my concerns here (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.904121). There was one additional negative response to the idea, and no positives.

I think the message was that GPUs should only be added as a separate listing from BFLS, so they do not to drag down net profits. But if you are not paying electricity out of BFLS income (or paying a fixed fee regardless of how much you use), then this is moot.

Cheers!

Basically what's happening is this: 

I have a large farm, and trying to manage it individually based on the type and location was proving to be almost impossible and still maintain and efficient operation.  As such, I pooled all of my mining resources one giant bucket, so they all mine to the same place and all the resulting revenues are generated together.  The odd share arrangement are shares that I have allocated to myself for the hardware I have in the bucket at a rate of 826 MH/s per 200 shares, minus some fudge factor (so I end up shorting myself a few shares). 

As I slowly sell off my GPU holdings, I am returning those shares to the BFLS bucket of unallocated shares (which is why you see the share count going down), and it will increase again when BFL finally gets me my remaining units.

Thanks for the payment, Inaba. A question for you:

GLBSE indicates that BFLS currently has 6395 shares that are receiving payments. It is my understanding that BFLS is allocated in exactly 200 shares per Single, and currently no other mining hardware is being utilized (MiniRigs are not in yet; GPUs are taboo).

Since 6395 is not divisible by 200 shares, exactly what hardware do those shares represent? That's assuming BFLS shares are released in blocks of 200 (200 per Single: 170 for public sale; 30 for you), and all released shares have been sold. Past dividend payments were paid across 4210 and 7500 shares ... also not divisible by 200. Just curious to know.