[GLBSE] current hashpower prices - page 2.

brendio

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Quote from: kakobrekla on April 16, 2012, 07:50:16 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

TyGrr pays 100% PPS on 12G. IPO was 3 Bitcoin or $10. Whatever was higher at the time.

The only costs/fee that will be taken is a 5% fee on weekly profit to the CEO (Chaang Noi) for running the operation. Profit will be the value of all coins mined minus electric costs.
(taken from: http://tygrr.com/tygrr-tech/)

Correct me if im wrong, but you have 5% fee beside elec. costs. That more like 95%, if.

Then, there is a small bonus for Namecoin mining. Not sure what that would bring it out at.

kakobrekla

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Quote from: ?? on ??

TyGrr pays 100% PPS on 12G. IPO was 3 Bitcoin or $10. Whatever was higher at the time.

The only costs/fee that will be taken is a 5% fee on weekly profit to the CEO (Chaang Noi) for running the operation. Profit will be the value of all coins mined minus electric costs.
(taken from: http://tygrr.com/tygrr-tech/)

Correct me if im wrong, but you have 5% fee beside elec. costs. That more like 95%, if.

Sukrim

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Well, you could state for each operation how many shares were sold in the IPO and how many BTC the operator got for this in total. If they expand (like PUREMINING) the average price for shares @IPO shifts then - but it might still give an overview on how large the operation is and where the starting point for current prices used to be.

MPOE-PR

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Quote

We also had 2 IPO prices, first we sold 2,205 shares for 0.1 BTC, and now we've sold 2,222 shares for 0.25 BTC, I'm not sure how you want to play with that one...

Don't take this the wrong way, but as a general principle whenever you say the bolded text you're in fact saying "I've created an accounting nightmare which can't probably be unwound". The whole idea of financial management is to never have to say that.

kakobrekla

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Agreed. Its almost impossible to count for all the differences. This is just a general overview and one should do research on his own, before investing, but its not far off.

I added this to the first post, so I don't get sued.

Meni Rosenfeld

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Quote from: Sukrim on April 15, 2012, 08:19:15 PM

I haven't issued dividends on GLBSE 2.0 yet, is there more than 1 way to do so? I could imagine at least "pay every share I don't own" and "pay every share" to be useful depending on the ownership situation. It might be the case that only payments to shares you don't own yourself get logged though...

There's only an option for "pay every share I don't own", although I've lobbied multiple times for "pay every share" and/or "pay given amount per share". Because of this, I transfer all new bonds to my main account and sell them from there. So it will always look like all bonds were sold, but you can generally determine how many were sold based on the asks.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Not entirely sure this table is a fair comparison: some of these things are bonds, other are shares.

For example : a cognitive share encompasses ownership of a bunch of FPGA cards
*and* its hashing power whereas a PURE share entitles you just to the hashing power
and nothing else.

It almost sounds like you're suggesting a share at a given hashrate is superior to a bond, where as far as I can see it's the opposite (though that depends on what factors exactly you take into consideration, fees and elec costs on one hand and optimization on the other). With shares multiple risks are passed on to investors, such as mining variance, downtime, hardware failures, and single-sided liquidation. With a bond the issuer absorbs all risks, so the price should be higher. The ownership of hardware is moot for most companies because they do not offer trading shares for hardware.

JL421

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JLP-BMD has 8,001 issues, but only 4,427 shares sold...
So it should look more like 0.7590 MHash/share, giving JLP-BMD a 0.2754 BTC per MHash bid and a 0.3161 BTC per MHash ask. (0.209 BTC Bid/0.2399 BTC Ask)

We also had 2 IPO prices, first we sold 2,205 shares for 0.1 BTC, and now we've sold 2,222 shares for 0.25 BTC, I'm not sure how you want to play with that one...

Sukrim

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Quote from: jamesg on April 15, 2012, 08:05:05 PM

Quote from: Sukrim on April 15, 2012, 07:56:26 PM

There is definitely something needed on GLBSE that shows how many shares really were sold/transfered and how many shares the issuer still has in posession to determine how much money was coming in at an IPO. This is information that might be quite useful to determine if one should invest somewhere or not...

This can usually be seen in the coupon or dividend payments. The list will show the value of each dividend / coupon and the number of bonds / shares that were paid.

I haven't issued dividends on GLBSE 2.0 yet, is there more than 1 way to do so? I could imagine at least "pay every share I don't own" and "pay every share" to be useful depending on the ownership situation. It might be the case that only payments to shares you don't own yourself get logged though...

This would mean that until the 14th of April BITBOND has sold exactly 6000 shares so far. total IPO would then be 5000*0.6 + 1000*0.625 = 3625 BTC divided by 6000 shares = 0.60416666...BTC/share

brendio

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Quote from: MPOE-PR on April 15, 2012, 02:09:56 PM

Interesting that BFSL has the best $/hash?

Not all the assets in the list are exactly comparable though. The bonds should be relatively comparable. Price differences might reflect perceived counterparty risk, although not sure that is the case.

Assets like FPGA.CONTRACT and BFLS represent an ownership share in the underlying hardware, whereas the pure mining bonds do not. Is that worth something, given that hardware could be sold if mining becomes unprofitable?

In contrast, the pure bonds do not incur running costs (as they are factored into the price). The mining companies differ in the way they handle costs, so that needs to be taken into account in any comparison.

jamesg

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AKA: gigavps

Quote from: Sukrim on April 15, 2012, 07:56:26 PM

There is definitely something needed on GLBSE that shows how many shares really were sold/transfered and how many shares the issuer still has in posession to determine how much money was coming in at an IPO. This is information that might be quite useful to determine if one should invest somewhere or not...

This can usually be seen in the coupon or dividend payments. The list will show the value of each dividend / coupon and the number of bonds / shares that were paid.

Sukrim

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BITBOND IPO: 5000 @0.6 (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.835201) and another 5000 @ 0.625 (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.843132) - the secong one seems to only have sold ~1000 shares though (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.845875), he wanted to do a sale then but decided otherwise and to hold on to shares probably or sell them at overpriced values (there are currently 2 quite large sell positions open with 1153 @0.70 and 2317 @0.78).

There is definitely something needed on GLBSE that shows how many shares really were sold/transfered and how many shares the issuer still has in posession to determine how much money was coming in at an IPO. This is information that might be quite useful to determine if one should invest somewhere or not...

Sukrim

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Puremining was initially sold @0.5 BTC per share, then refunded 0.1 BTC/share, then refunded an additional 0.12 BTC/share bringing the first + second round of IPO down to an effective 0.28 BTC/share for the first 200 shares (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.781797). The next 300 shares were offered @0.32 (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.797924). Afterwards 500 shares @0.36 (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.831214) and lately 1000 @0.38 (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.836548) with 2000 more to come next week it seems.

In total he should have gotten: 200*0.28+300*0.32+500*0.36+1000*0.38 = 712 BTC for 2000 shares so far, equalling an average IPO price of 0.356BTC per share.

Maybe write something like (IPO: [email protected], [email protected] ... / IPO combined: [email protected]) for this bond.

Edit:
BMMO seems to have a kinda weird fee structure: They ("currently"!?) have a plain fee of 0.0015 BTC per week (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.830497) - this amounts to currently a plain 33.3...% deduction, so they should be valued @66.6% PPS, not 100% PPS. This can get worse though (but according to their post the fees will max. be the whole profit, not more - how comforting!).

kakobrekla

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Ok, fresh pic is up. I hope I haven't screwed the data, but looks ok to me

kakobrekla

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Found a small error, pic removed till i fix it (any minute now)

JWU42

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Quote from: marked on April 15, 2012, 03:15:07 PM

Quote from: JWU42 on April 15, 2012, 02:30:44 PM

PUREMINING 0.38

I bought at 0.28 on 4th March, but can't remember if that was the IPO price.

marked

As I mentioned above - I thought it was correct - perhaps not. Will wait for a definitive answer...

ineededausername

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bitcoin hundred-aire

there are a lot of arb opportunities here... and some of them are quite excellent

marked

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Quote from: JWU42 on April 15, 2012, 02:30:44 PM

PUREMINING 0.38

I bought at 0.28 on 4th March, but can't remember if that was the IPO price.

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marked

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Quote from: kakobrekla on April 15, 2012, 02:31:27 PM

Not sure if 100pps is correct, but nb of shares is. I am not sure about RSM hashrate, anyone?

RSM has no hardware as yet, should be with them this week, divs to be paid a week or so later?

marked

kakobrekla

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on April 15, 2012, 02:26:00 PM

I am not sure if it is available but it would be interesting to see IPO price for each bond (in BTC/MH).

The bonds had widely divergent IPO prices but given the near fungibility of MH/s (bonds really only differ in trust of principal) we should see the prices converge. That means under priced IPO showing a profit and over priced IPOs showing a loss.

Quote from: JWU42 on April 15, 2012, 02:30:44 PM

IPO prices I can confirm:

YABMC 0.3 (my listing)
GIGAMING 1.0 (own shares)

IPO prices I cannot confirm but believe to be correct:

PUREMINING 0.38

Not sure on the others...

Can easily be added, does someone have the rest of the data at hand?

kakobrekla

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Quote from: marked on April 15, 2012, 02:03:00 PM

JLP-BMD, RSM, and BMMO are missing.

marked

Humm, I added BMMO and JLP-BMD (edited original post), but RSM is a total mess.

Code:

$data[] = array(
	'ticker' => 'RSM',
	'nbshares' => 1900,
	'hashrate' => '',
	'pps' => 100,
	'note' => '',
);

Not sure if 100pps is correct, but nb of shares is. I am not sure about RSM hashrate, anyone?

Topic: [GLBSE] current hashpower prices - page 2. (Read 5529 times)