Topic: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond - page 4. (Read 26518 times)

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.

Giga is selling hassle-free MH/s at a fixed price up front, how complex can that be to understand??? Its more easily compared to running your own hardware than trying to estimate the earnings from a variable mining operation.

Funny how making things simpler sometimes ignites the most unimaginable arguments...

Usually people don't take their counterparty making a profit as an insult, if they make a profit too. Would you be less opposed had he lied and said he had no BFLs and was just GPU mining with the increased electricity costs?

Either way, his electricity costs may be lower than many people's because of where he lives and his agreements for bulk power. He has infrastructure for monitoring miners and keeping them running at all times, which is more than most casual miners can say. In short, he's got some degree of an economy of scale. And, regarding risk, as I said before, if hardware fails or some other catastrophic event happens, he either has to buy the bonds back or find some other way to provide 50ghash/s.

The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else. The information he put out there suggests he's got a decent profit margin on this deal, but it isn't risk-free or "free money" by any means, due to the running costs and so on.

To put this in a different way, say you're happily going to a store and buying your groceries from them, because the food is worth more to you than the money you hand over to them to buy it. One day, you look at their supplier invoices and see that their prices are marked up by 200%. Would you stop shopping there? Would you leave angry notes on the store's door telling the store manager and the store's customers about the purported price gouging going on?

DILLIGAF, your math is a little simplistic. Let me pose a couple of questions.

- Who pays for the electricity to run the 50Gh?
- Who takes on the responsibility to deliver the coupon payments every week?
- Who is effected if equipment dies?
- Who pays for downtime?
- Who pays for power outages?
- Who pays if the HVAC dies?

To answer all of those questions (and i'm sure there are more I am not thinking of) at once, I am taking on these responsibilities. Again, I hope to be setup in such a way to be able to still deliver even in the face of great adversity.

If you feel that this does not warrant the premium I suggested, please let me know what you feel is a reasonable rate.


I have changed the name of the venture to "Gigamining Bonds" to try and be as clear as possible.

Let's just say that with ~$0.20/kWh where I live, I'm definitely interested!

Original idea 10,000 shares at 1.2 BTC equals 12,000 BTC  at this moment in time ~$55,000 4x BFL min-rigs equals ~60,000 or $5,000 cost to him for the two mini-rigs he gains through this bond if BTC goes over $5 you actually pay him to have bought these not just the gain of the rigs. So if that math is not simple enough for you then I don't particularly care just be informed as to what is going on he makes essentially two free mini-rigs by doing this if your all happy with that purchase away. Oh he says he is setting up mining company a couple of times now and as I have already pointed out all of them I have seen include all the equipment and BTC earned from that equipment in their calculations for the BTC put up to start it. Now I would imagine he will quibble over this saying it is bond well if it is that then continue to refer to it as such.


Good enough as I have said now people know the rest they can buy if they wish too I don't care one way or the other just pointing out the math of it as they seem to be fond of and the confusing terms you have used it is either bond or mining company can't be both the way you are doing it.

I was originally planning to wait until they arrived.

If the community would like the initial offering to happen sooner, I would definitely be willing to consider it.

I will update the OP with this.

Will you wait for the Mini-rigs for the IPO, or are you thinking on making it sooner?

I have decided to disclose all of my hashing power so that investors can know that I am capable of fulfilling the bond payments even if equipment was to fail. It also states in bold that the 10k coupons equate to 50Gh.

That analysis is too simplistic. Can you do some real math and come back with a more reasonable suggestion?

Why are you so confrontational about this? He's not scamming people, he's not ripping people off, and he's offering a contract priced on par with similar ones. He's invested many many tens of thousands of dollars into his mining infrastructure and has the experience and skill to manage it, and he doesn't work for free. He has to keep paying the electric bills for these things forever, and the hashing isn't tied to a particular rig, so if one of the BFL miners dies or doesn't work for whatever reason, he still owes people 50ghash/s forever (unless he buys it back, in which case he still makes a loss). There's certainly risk in it for him, and risk carries a premium.

He started the thread as a question about what a good price for this type of contract would be. He suggested a price to get the conversation going, and if you don't like it, why not suggest one you think is more appropriate and why you think so. It's generally more productive to be respectful instead of confrontational.

Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this. Oh and the hardware mentioned that you intend to use for this bond is here.

Great idea man, running quick estimations, 1BTC for 5MH/s seems a great price, I'll be sure to join!

DILLIGAF, the only investment that has been made thus far is by me. There is no bond yet and no initial sale.

This is not an IPO where you own a share of a company. This is a bond coupon that guarantees to pay 100% PPS at 5Mh/s per coupon. Every other investment vehicle like this thus far has similar profit margins, just not at scale.

Are you saying that it is wrong for me scale up the same business model already proven by others on the glbse?


I see no hardware listing here -> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/glbse-puremining-infinite-term-deterministic-mining-bond-65569

Only a contract to pay PPS of 1Mh/s to each coupon holder.

If you feel I have been misleading in someway, then you do not need to participate. If you can get a better deal, then I would recommend you setup your own mining company.

I am asking for pricing feedback from the community in the thread. If you think the price should be different from what I have suggested, please say so.

I see the word all there qualifying the risk you had taken by implying reception of some of them before that purchase.



You could start by doing as all the other companies have done namely include everything that the BTC invested has bought as I have pointed out already this deal gives you ~$30,000 profit off the hop plus all the BTC that will ever be produced by those two extra boxes you get to make out of it. Now that people know that this is the idea you could state this in your terms of offering if they buy still knowing this is the case you have been honest and upfront with them so there would be no basis for any more discussion on this aspect of the deal. If people want to give you ~$30,000 bonus plus BTC produced off that bonus equipment for having bought said equipment more power to them.

You are correct. I was just informed that I will be receiving 4 mini rigs instead of the two rig boxes that I originally purchased. I did however, put up the money for these rigs well before I received all of my singles.


You are also correct. The only hassles are a) getting the funds together, b) sitting on your hands for three months until the equipment arrives and c) dealing with the heat 60 singles would generate.

If you feel that I am not providing enough value, please make a recommendation. I would much rather discussion solutions to the problems you see than to try and rebut the same arguments over again.

Nobody claims they are scam now especially you as you have many of the singles according to you that were in your possession before the mini-rig was even announced let alone available for purchase and you are transferring 100% of the risk onto the bond holders with this idea.


Can be depending on the diff/exchange rate.


Not much of a hassle with them things plug cable into computer plug into wall turn it on fire up mining program and go.


Yes nice healthy free 50gh/s.


Well these mining companies I see on here offering up this type of deal include all equipment purchased with the funds that were raised along with all the BTC produced by that equipment less their overhead, this endeavor gives you a quick profit while taking away all your risk of purchase by not doing all of the equipment and the excess BTC that will be mined in the deal.

Hi Kaos,

Thank you for your input and feedback. I truly appreciate your kind words and am eager to provide the win/win scenario you describe.

Best,
gigavps

I am also eager to hear others feedback so don't be shy!

And there's nothing wrong with that. The way I see it, he has a great reputation and if he makes a great offer then it's a win/win for everyone and thus these shares are going to fly off the shelves like hot BTC cupcakes.

Hi DILLIGAF,

Thank you for your feedback. I would like to make a couple points.

1. I have taken on all the risk of purchasing this equipment, up front, when everybody on the forums were claiming that BFL was a scam.
2. This equipment will be profitable for the foreseeable future whether I do the bond or not.
3. I see this as an opportunity to allow others to mine without all of the pain / headaches / etc. that comes with building a mining farm.
4. You are correct, I am also trying to make a profit.

Ultimately, I am here to try and provide the best value to date for a venture of this type.

Best,
gigavps