Global Migration of Millionaires. Can Bitcoin change this scenario? - page 2.

stompix

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Quote from: countryfree on August 04, 2020, 08:58:35 AM

I wonder where's the data is coming from.
The people like me who travel all the time, or the people who moved to another country, most often, keep quiet about it.

The data is from here:
https://e.issuu.com/embed.html?u=newworldwealth&d=gwmr_2019

And no, you can't really keep quiet when you change citizenship, those are not expats living abroad, those are people that moved entirely and in most cases for good, besides, the data shows HNWI that were already in their database, people who have not kept a low profile even when they were not thinking of moving out. A lot of companies deal with this kind of data, especially luxury brands and realtors, once a multi-million dollar property changes hand the whole industry knows.

Quote from: Shasha80 on August 03, 2020, 01:28:28 AM

Maybe this is one of the causes of the price of a Bitcoin pump above $ 11,000. Some millionaires move their money into Bitcoin, so rich people don't need to do global migration.

The data is from 2017 and 2018, so ...no! Cheesy

thesmallgod

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If you are a millionaire and legitimately doing business, the only reason you might opt to migrate is due to easy and healthy standard of living that is being offered oversea. Most millionaire that move around do so also to explore new opportunity not because they have big money. Unless they are trying to prevent being charged for money laundering because there is limitation to money you can carry into oversea country. Bitcoin might help them to break the barrier though but the question is will they be able to trust bitcoin ?

Kakmakr

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The migration of Millionaires might not even be happening because they fear their local country, it might simply be that they are moving because they can afford to move to first world countries. Most of these Millionaires are invested in global firms and their money is not even invested in their country of origin. Roll Eyes

Yes, if they did not trust their 3rd world governments, they might have moved to another country due to political instability and Bitcoin cannot solve that problem. Most third world countries make use of international Banking groups, so it is not due to insecure Banking institutions...

Economic instability might be a driving factor, because the local currency might devalue too quickly... but as I said, most of these people are invested in global markets and not local Fiat savings. (shares/equities/property etc.)

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

I wonder where's the data is coming from.
The people like me who travel all the time, or the people who moved to another country, most often, keep quiet about it.

Anyway, BTC helps a lot. Many countries, like China, Morocco or even Montenegro, have strict capital controls. I mean that you have your money in the bank, but if you want to wire money to another country, it must be green-lighted by the country's central bank. Sometimes, it says no, so you're screwed. Unless, you have BTC of course...

Cryptoreflector_666

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Quote from: bitmover on July 28, 2020, 01:28:54 PM

I saw this image today. It shows the migration of millionaires around the world.

We see clearly millionaires moving from more repressive countries to freer ones.

Millionaires are probably moving away from countries which try to steal their money. With bitcoin adoption, rich people won't need to run away with their money, they can just convert it to bitcoin to protect themselves.

Source: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/global-migration-of-millionaires/

For those who think China will dominate the world in a few years.. wealth continue to flow out of their country. I believe it will fall just like URSS did few decades ago. Dictatorships are never good for economies in long term

Everyone wants freedom. Bitcoin will certainly make the world freer.

I don't think rich people will transfer their assets to bitcoin. Bitcoin is too unstable due to its huge volatility and no one will hold large amounts in it. Accordingly, we are still faced with the Fiat currency and the laws of the state, which are usually very protesting against cryptocurrencies and bitcoin in particular.

bearexin

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Quote from: Upgrade00 on July 28, 2020, 02:15:50 PM

Some of those countries with strict laws extended that to Bitcoin with some regulating it and some banning its use outrightly. While most nations in the freer zones are less stringent and has a cryptocurrency friendly environment, encouraging its use.
It's possible for some people to go through the hoops in areas where Bitcoin is restricted but if they are wealthy enough they could rather choose to move to a more friendly environment and live comfortably.

What you are saying is that the millionaires are changing countries due to the stricter laws and regulations against cryptocurrency which is absolutely absurd. No one would change their country just because they were not able to invest in one digital asset.

If we talk about people that are involved in the blockchain or IT field, the statement can be considered valid till some point as there were news of blockchain companies moving to Switzerland due to no strict laws against cryptocurrencies. Crypto market is still far from being a multi-trillion market therefore it doesn’t yet concern millionaires or billionaires unless they own a company in IT sector.

7788bitcoin

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Quote from: davis196 on August 02, 2020, 12:59:18 AM

You are wrong about that.If you are a millionaire,any authoritarian government can just lock you down and ask for huge "ransom".You can't just move your money outside the country and stay in that country at the same time.
It doesn't matter if your wealth is stored in Bitcoin or any other asset.

If the wealth is known and if you are fighting against the government and if you are living in an authoritarian government you cannot avoid and they will find a way to lock them and we have seen many situation in China where the billionaires are moving to other countries because the government is planning to put them behind bars and if a government wants you behind bars then the only option is to run away from that situation and you can see many billionaires migrating to Europe and other western countries leaving their wealth behind. In these circumstances bitcoin cannot be the ultimate solution but it is possible to convert a percentage of your wealth to bitcoin and move without the authorities noticing it.

tbterryboy

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Bitcoin is a good idea, but a lot of them might worry about the volatility of Bitcoin, and you know for sure that nobody is ready to move all their money from the bank into Bitcoin. To be sincere, as much as we all want that freedom, we are forgetting that we can’t do the work of a bank. You can’t manage all your money at once in your possession. Imagine that Jeff Bezos the world’s richest man decides to pull all his money keep it in a safe in his house, do you think it will be safe? No it wouldn’t.

There is a kind of protection that banks gives, so you can only store a small amount of your money in Bitcoin. So the best thing these people can do is still to migrate to places that we favor them.

naikturun

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if that is true, then they have anticipated, that the possibility of people will switch to bitcoin, and also the crypto market is not big enough for everyone because it is not up to 1% of all the total valuable assets in the world.
I'm not sure bitcoin will solve this problem globally.

Shasha80

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Maybe this is one of the causes of the price of a Bitcoin pump above $ 11,000. Some millionaires move their money into Bitcoin,
so rich people don't need to do global migration. Although this is just my guess, because there is no evidence that rich people
buy bitcoin in large quantities. But Bitcoin can indeed protect millionaire's money and provide financial freedom. Without fear
the government stole their money.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: darewaller on August 02, 2020, 03:24:58 PM

I don’t think that millionaires migrating from one country to the other has anything to do with the security of their money. No one’s trying to steal anything and plus they have all the facilities and security at their disposal. They probably move from repressive countries to freer ones to expand their businesses in various horizons and to live a life free of chaos and too much crowd. That’s not a great scenario for the country that is being left behind as it takes the hit on its economy.

Moreover, china will never be able to dominate the world or the international market with such attitude. Many large companies and other organizations that had their base and headquarters in china are already relocating to different countries.

No one is trying to steal anything? Are you sure about this?

A few years back, France had imposed a 75% tax on the super-rich. I would call such steps as daylight robbery. In most of the countries around the world, the rich people pay a higher proportion of their income as taxes, when compared to the others. But this is not right in my opinion. You can't punish someone for their success. Tax rates needs to be uniform for everyone.

KrisAlex18

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I guess the perspective towards global migration being done not just by millionaires but even the ordinary people have no direct relationship to the existence of Bitcoin to make them change their way on not migrating because people do have different desires in life and reasons why they migrate into different places. Mostly reasons are because they were seeking for boundless opportunities that can be found in other places.

Well, there might be reason related to Bitcoin why other people will do migration it is duly because some countries prohibit the usage and existence of cryptocurrencies making people who do really want to use it will get into other countries where it is allowed to be able to use it freely. But that would be an example on how Bitcoin cannot affect a people's decision on just staying up in a single place and never get away. It is because Bitcoin have nothing to do on why people decide to migrate it is duly to the reason that people just have their own reasons for migration and that's it.

darewaller

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I don’t think that millionaires migrating from one country to the other has anything to do with the security of their money. No one’s trying to steal anything and plus they have all the facilities and security at their disposal. They probably move from repressive countries to freer ones to expand their businesses in various horizons and to live a life free of chaos and too much crowd. That’s not a great scenario for the country that is being left behind as it takes the hit on its economy.

Moreover, china will never be able to dominate the world or the international market with such attitude. Many large companies and other organizations that had their base and headquarters in china are already relocating to different countries.

bryant.coleman

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The world has got smaller, with cheap air travel and internet connectivity and the governments are yet to realize it. They can no longer tax the super-rich at insane levels. Because they will just migrate to another country. Remember what happened in France, after François Hollande came up with the 75% super-tax? It was a gigantic failure.

As the situation stands now, the governments can tax the middle-class and the lower-class, until blood comes out from their rear side. But the same strategy is not practical with the super-rich. Nowadays, passports are on sale for as little as $100,000 to $250,000 (I am talking about Dominica, Vanuatu, Antigua and Barbuda, St Kitts, Portugal, Malta.etc). Rather than paying a few millions in tax, these super-rich individuals may just purchase a passport for a fraction of that amount.

davis196

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Quote

Millionaires are probably moving away from countries which try to steal their money. With bitcoin adoption, rich people won't need to run away with their money, they can just convert it to bitcoin to protect themselves.

You are wrong about that.If you are a millionaire,any authoritarian government can just lock you down and ask for huge "ransom".You can't just move your money outside the country and stay in that country at the same time.
It doesn't matter if your wealth is stored in Bitcoin or any other asset.
Rich people are running away from such countries,because they might go to jail,if they stay.
Pretty interesting infographic though.I'm not sure if this data is correct.There's must be a way we could verify the information.

panganib999

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Global migration is a normal scenario happening in the world for many people are always up into exploring something new and that leads them on getting into other places just to try luck and seek better opportunities that could come along the way of their journey. For sure, that is also one of the reasons why millionaires are getting into global migration for they are looking for better opportunities that can make them gain more profit and somehow expand their properties and businesses as they come along the way of migration.

I think the usage of Bitcoin cannot do a direct impact to change up this scenario because global migration is a normal thing ever since the early ages which brings the people more diversified and people have their own reasons why they do migrate into other places. When it comes to millionaires using Bitcoin so that they can be free to use up their money for fast transaction and to lessen migration, I think there is no significant relation on that because there are still countries who do not allow crypto usage so that could still lead to migration and it is inappropriate to store up a very large amount of money in crypto or digital currencies which is for me is impractical.

Yatsan

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There are lots of reasons why a certain individual decides to migrate into other countries most specially at the case of millionaires, surely they are seeking for better opportunities that can be possible to be seen on other places. Millionaires do have really big mind to seek for business concepts making them go far away to put it into reality.

The existence of Bitcoin to be used up as a passage way to make millionaires feer out of government's control on handling their money could be possible but it cannot assure to lessen the possibility of having migration because not all countries do allow usage and existence of cryptocurrencies in their countries so if ever they would try to decide using crypto like Bitcoin in a country like that, they would still be make use of doing migration to be able to use Bitcoin. We cannot control the migration of millionaires since they have their own reasons why they migrate to other places and that is which commonly concern about seeking better to best opportunities. Bitcoin on the other hand could be a possible way if they were just minding to be freer on using their money but still the idea is not that clear how could it be possible and usage of such cannot be an assurance that migration will not take place anymore.

bits4books

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Crypto is not a religion but i like it

Your message is not very clear about how btc can make the world a freer place. Here is a more realistic scenario - people leave countries where the crypto is prohibited/does not have a legal status to where it is in a better position and nothing changes in the end. Rich people as they moved to a places that better for them and they will be. Not the rich will continue to sit where they sit because there is no other way out.
Where does BTC make the world a freer place? How? There is still migration from one country to another-is it freedom? Or what?
No one in their right mind would store super-large amounts in btc because it is not predictable. Remember what a war of suicides was after his fall.

Darker45

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Quote from: stompix on July 30, 2020, 11:03:01 AM

Quote from: Darker45 on July 29, 2020, 11:21:56 PM

I'm afraid that's the half-empty way of looking at it. How about calling it social justice?

Justice? Probably not the one that's in front of every courthouse.
What justice is there when you take something from me just because you don't have something of your own?
You could call bullying also social justice, the bullies were taking lunch money from the kids that money. The poor were exempt from this.

No single courthouse implements social justice. And I don't believe either that genuine justice springs forth from two self-assured lawyers superficially arguing against each other and a judge finally acting like a god bringing down a verdict.

If you don't want to give more than your minimum responsibility, then it's all up to you. You shouldn't be forced to give an extra against your will. Even tax avoidance, after all, is completely legal.

However, it is my personal conviction that those who have much, those who can afford to have a gold toilet, should learn to share even at least from their excesses.

Quote from: Darker45 on July 29, 2020, 11:21:56 PM

Those who have much will have to give more and those who have little will have to give less. Moreover, those who have much will have to receive less and those who have little will have to receive more. But, yeah, those who scream the loudest will have to receive nothing. Grin

Do you know how this worked in the past?
Total disaster, from the URSS to Zimbabwe, when the poor took from the rich it ended with everyone getting poor! In Zimbabwe, they took the lands from the rich farmers, what happened? The poor died of hunger even though they had their own land! Forced redistribution of wealth is creating more problems that is solving.
Besides, BTC is exactly opposing this, so you can't really be a fan of wealth redistribution and of BTC at the same time. Wink

I am not a fan of governments. Neither am I a fan of violence. I don't support anyone, much less the government, forcing anybody to cough up even a single cent more than their minimum responsibility to support whatever program they have in mind.

While I don't believe that Bitcoin is a way to redistribute wealth, I also don't think that Satoshi created Bitcoin to exactly oppose it. Bitcoin brought forth freedom. The rich, elites, powerful, and the like are all free. Bitcoin empowers people. The ones who benefit most out of it are not those from the top but those who are at the bottom.

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