GOATS! | Bitcointalksearch.org

augustocroppo

vip

Activity: 756

Merit: 504

Quote from: BkkCoins

I never said that all people are uneducated in developing countries. Read carefully what I did say. There's plenty of educated people in developing countries but the ones who are uneducated are the ones I'm talking about. And I'm not making stuff up. I've lived the past 10 years in a developing country and have plenty of first hand knowledge. So before calling me an idiot perhaps you should check your own reading comprehension.

You are right. I misinterpreted your post. I recognize that my reading comprehension failed. I became very emotional with the subject and I unnecessarily called you an idiot. I am sure you had the best intentions when you offered your arguments. I therefore offer my apologies.

Phinnaeus Gage

legendary

Activity: 1918

Merit: 1570

Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heifer_International

Quote

In 2010, Heifer International President Jo Luck was named a co-laureate of the prestigious World Food Prize.

Heifer International received the 2006 Social Capitalist award from Fast Company magazine.

Heifer International also received the 2004 Conrad N. Hilton Humanitarian Prize for its efforts to eliminate hunger and help communities become self-sustaining. It was the first US-based organization to win the $1 million award since 1997.[3]

In 2003, Heifer International was named one of Forbes magazine's top 10 charities.[4]

In 2007, the Heifer International Headquarters building was named one of the American Institute of Architects Committee on the Environment Top Ten Green Projects.[5]

In 2008, the Heifer International Headquarters building was named a National AIA (American Institute of Architects) Institute Honor Award Winner.[6]

Seriously, I'm sure we could run EVERY single charitable organization into the ground, including Bitcoin 100.

I believe the key point in starting this thread was to show how one entity has teamed up with another bringing awareness to Bitcoin, but some dickhead--ME--had to present some interesting facts.

When I first starting reading about the 'Give a Goat' programs, I was excited (and still am to some degree) and starting thinking in the 'what if' mode as to how such a program can be intertwined with Bitcoin in a more efficient manner upon seeing the various price points for the same goat.

The bottom line is that CoinLab has their first prospect, an important step in gaining their next, just like when Bitcoin 100 got its first. Surely not ideal, but by no means a failure.

All and all, you have to admit that it's pretty funny that we're arguing over goats which, BTW, I'm wondering what the fuck he's been up to lately.

~Bruno K~

BkkCoins

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1009

firstbits:1MinerQ

Quote from: augustocroppo on December 21, 2012, 11:55:22 PM

Quote from: BkkCoins on December 21, 2012, 09:22:33 PM

So with goats they're likely to butcher it and eat it right away rather than what may be best for the long term. If the program has strings attached like passing on the first born female goat then this won't happen unless monitoring, enforcement or incentives are present.

Charity organizations are not supposed to enforce agreements on the poor, they are supposed to offer assistance for the poor. Heifer is a non-profit organization, not an enforcement agency.

Quote from: BkkCoins on December 21, 2012, 09:22:33 PM

People in developed countries really do not know how uneducated people in less developed countries actually are, and even more so they don't understand how hard it is to change things.

I am not 'uneducated' because I come from a 'less developed' country. I got an excellent academic, scientific and moral education from Brazilian schools, from my family and from society. Your assumption is based on a false premise, which presumes that only developed nations have 'educated' people'. No... I am sorry for you, but we the Brazilians are very busy with our developing civilization. We are not barbarians, may I say... You are an idiot, sir.

I never said that all people are uneducated in developing countries. Read carefully what I did say. There's plenty of educated people in developing countries but the ones who are uneducated are the ones I'm talking about. And I'm not making stuff up. I've lived the past 10 years in a developing country and have plenty of first hand knowledge. So before calling me an idiot perhaps you should check your own reading comprehension.

augustocroppo

vip

Activity: 756

Merit: 504

Quote from: BkkCoins on December 21, 2012, 09:22:33 PM

So with goats they're likely to butcher it and eat it right away rather than what may be best for the long term. If the program has strings attached like passing on the first born female goat then this won't happen unless monitoring, enforcement or incentives are present.

Charity organizations are not supposed to enforce agreements on the poor, they are supposed to offer assistance for the poor. Heifer is a non-profit organization, not an enforcement agency.

Quote from: BkkCoins on December 21, 2012, 09:22:33 PM

People in developed countries really do not know how uneducated people in less developed countries actually are, and even more so they don't understand how hard it is to change things.

I am not 'uneducated' because I come from a 'less developed' country. I got an excellent academic, scientific and moral education from Brazilian schools, from my family and from society. Your assumption is based on a false premise, which presumes that only developed nations have 'educated' people'. No... I am sorry for you, but we the Brazilians are very busy with our developing civilization. We are not barbarians, may I say... You are an idiot, sir.

augustocroppo

vip

Activity: 756

Merit: 504

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.reviews&orgid=3809

Quote

I thought that was a reasonable expectation: Where was my donation used? I asked Heifer International roughly where my donation was used so that I could start marking my map, and continue to donate. What Heifer Internation stated was they couldn't tell me where my funds were used. Furthermore, they didn't even provide me any message (card/email/letter) to provide me of proof that I even had made the donation. They told me to print my own statement from the website.

Quote

In 1980 I worked as a student in international development in Panama. I met a development worker there who excoriated Heifer International. He said HI's gift of an animal trapped impoverished farmers in a cycle of debt because they could not afford the necessary feed so Heifer gave them a loan for it which they could only pay back by selling the food they produced rather than eating it.

franky1

legendary

Activity: 4410

Merit: 4766

Quote from: Raoul Duke on December 21, 2012, 08:08:09 PM

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3809

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4288

Interesting read... Roll Eyes

i totally agree .. most charities are out to fill their pockets more than spending the cash on the end results they advertise.
i personally do not donate cash to charity for this reason. i do however donate food to food banks, and animal feed/bedding to RSPCA's.

you probably find out if digging deep enough into the facts that a goat only costs $20 and oxfam takes a $30 cut..(not a fact just an stab in the dark so dont quote me)

that beign said some money is better then no money to some of the causes that are not in your town and oxfam is a darn sight better then someone paying $120 for the exact same goat by using heifer as the middle man. atleast with coinlabs $120 donations 2 goats will reach the needy people via oxfam as oppose to heifers one goat. so i hope coinlab change who they donate to.

BkkCoins

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1009

firstbits:1MinerQ

Quote from: augustocroppo on December 21, 2012, 05:39:05 PM

Poor populations in developing countries learn skills related to their needs more than you and me will even learn in our whole life time. Living there is more than just wait for the waiter to serve the lamb meal you choose in a fancy menu.

Unfortunately this is not true. I've lived in a small third-world village for several years and my experience is that people will often do what gives them the most immediate benefit. So with goats they're likely to butcher it and eat it right away rather than what may be best for the long term. If the program has strings attached like passing on the first born female goat then this won't happen unless monitoring, enforcement or incentives are present.

People in developed countries really do not know how uneducated people in less developed countries actually are, and even more so they don't understand how hard it is to change things. Even when you teach people stuff they will tend to not believe or trust it, and even if they do they tend to keep it private for their own advantage rather than share or pass it on for social advantage. These are difficult traits to successfully teach.

Mjbmonetarymetals

legendary

Activity: 1096

Merit: 1067

Raoul Duke

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1002

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3809

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4288

Interesting read... Roll Eyes

thoughtfan

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 506

Quote from: augustocroppo on December 21, 2012, 05:39:05 PM

Quote from: SgtSpike on December 21, 2012, 05:11:38 PM

People who have never had a goat may not know how to properly care for one to ensure its health and longevity. Even though their neighbors may have a goat and have taken care of it, that doesn't mean it's the best method either. Maybe their neighbor's goats could be living twice as long, and produce better milk in greater quantities if they had the knowledge that this organization could provide. The thing is, you just don't know - you're only making assumptions.

Poor populations in developing countries learn skills related to their needs more than you and me will even learn in our whole life time. Living there is more than just wait for the waiter to serve the lamb meal you choose in a fancy menu.

[img.../img]

On the percentage going to whom and who does the teaching I can not comment.

However I do know enough through talking to people directly involved in such schemes that for many communities over large swathes of Africa prior to the goats thing they have only kept cattle. The skills passed down therefore has been related to cattle. The introduction of goats can make a massive difference due to all the advantages listed in the brochures and can be long-term too but only if the husbandry is done right. As SgtSpike intimates knowing how to make the most out of the goats, including breeding them, is what makes these programmes self-sustaining.

I don't know who does it at what cost but from what I understand the education part is absolutely essential to the success of these schemes.

franky1

legendary

Activity: 4410

Merit: 4766

Quote from: SgtSpike on December 21, 2012, 06:25:28 PM

Quote from: franky1 on December 21, 2012, 06:14:31 PM

heifer is classed as charity sponsers/advertisers/campaign managers.. not charity ground troops doing the hard work for the needy.

Do you have proof of this?

read my last message
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1413874

its their partners that are the actual ones doing the hard work.

you honestly think heifer pays oxfam to get goats, and then takes the goats away from oxfam to then work with the families that need them..

lol they pay oxfam $50 and oxfam do the work.. end of story

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

Quote from: franky1 on December 21, 2012, 06:14:31 PM

heifer is classed as charity sponsers/advertisers/campaign managers.. not charity ground troops doing the hard work for the needy.

Do you have proof of this?

franky1

legendary

Activity: 4410

Merit: 4766

heifer keep the $70 difference...

its organisations like oxfam which teach people how to deal with goats. and they do it for $50..
heifer is classed as charity sponsers/advertisers/campaign managers.. not charity ground troops doing the hard work for the needy.

i would not call it an outright scam until there is proof that $0 ends up as a goat. what i would say is definetly a huge chunk of the cheese never reaches the needy. and its a insuffiencent use of peoples goodwill.

coinlab if you are reading this. drop all ties with heifer. and make it an oxfam buy a goat scheme instead.

same rules apply: people mine for bitcoin you cash out the bitcoin and buy a goat directly with the charity that actually buys goats.

we dont want to see our good will of $120 being only used for $50 of actual charity work

get rid of the middle men. no one minds a 5%-10% admin fee's.. but not a 60% fee for just going to the oxfam website and pressing a few buttons

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

So, you argue that the "teaching" portion of the charity isn't necessary. All I am saying is that I'd like to give the charity the benefit of the doubt that the teaching portion DOES have benefits, and until I see evidence to the contrary, I will continue giving that benefit of the doubt.

augustocroppo

vip

Activity: 756

Merit: 504

Quote from: SgtSpike on December 21, 2012, 05:11:38 PM

People who have never had a goat may not know how to properly care for one to ensure its health and longevity. Even though their neighbors may have a goat and have taken care of it, that doesn't mean it's the best method either. Maybe their neighbor's goats could be living twice as long, and produce better milk in greater quantities if they had the knowledge that this organization could provide. The thing is, you just don't know - you're only making assumptions.

Poor populations in developing countries learn skills related to their needs more than you and me will even learn in our whole life time. Living there is more than just wait for the waiter to serve the lamb meal you choose in a fancy menu.

Quote from: SgtSpike on December 21, 2012, 05:11:38 PM

Certainly, many charities could be considered frauds, given how much "overhead" they have, but I think you need more information to go by in this case. Start digging. Find out what the $120 goes towards, besides just the acquisition of a goat. Look at that charity report website that shows what percentage of donations go towards the people. But don't go around calling charities frauds when you have no evidence to support it.

There is not need of further investigation, the necessary evidence is already published in this thread. If you decided to ignore, I have no obligation to respond to your demands.

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

Quote from: augustocroppo on December 21, 2012, 05:06:30 PM

Quote from: SgtSpike on December 21, 2012, 03:47:50 PM

I wouldn't go that far. Perhaps, a less efficient user of their resources.

There is a promise: 'For every $120 raised through the Bitcoin mining, they’ll be able to send a goat to one family.'

That implies that the coast to delivery a goat is $120.

Now evidence shows that the delivery of a goat is almost the half of the value promised. This indicates that there are hidden costs which were not disclosed for the general public. This hidden costs are above any reasonable threshold expected from a charity organization. For each goat obtained for delivery, the charity organization is keeping an extra goat for themselves.

This is attempt of fraud because the hidden costs were not disclosed. The people which will donate is being tricked to believe that $120 is the price to delivery a goat.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/fraud?q=fraud

Quote from: SgtSpike on December 21, 2012, 03:47:50 PM

As Coinlab mentioned, perhaps heifer takes up the task of teaching the people who receive these goats how to care for them, while offloading the responsibility of acquiring and delivering said goats to a 3rd party?

This is a joke, right?

The people which receive the goats do not need a special lessons to receive a goat or to care for goats. People which receive the goats already know what to do, how to do and why to do with a goat. It is part of their cultural formation. What they lack is the goat, not the skills to look after the goats.

Not a joke.

People who have never had a goat may not know how to properly care for one to ensure its health and longevity. Even though their neighbors may have a goat and have taken care of it, that doesn't mean it's the best method either. Maybe their neighbor's goats could be living twice as long, and produce better milk in greater quantities if they had the knowledge that this organization could provide. The thing is, you just don't know - you're only making assumptions.

Certainly, many charities could be considered frauds, given how much "overhead" they have, but I think you need more information to go by in this case. Start digging. Find out what the $120 goes towards, besides just the acquisition of a goat. Look at that charity report website that shows what percentage of donations go towards the people. But don't go around calling charities frauds when you have no evidence to support it.

augustocroppo

vip

Activity: 756

Merit: 504

Quote from: SgtSpike on December 21, 2012, 03:47:50 PM

I wouldn't go that far. Perhaps, a less efficient user of their resources.

There is a promise: 'For every $120 raised through the Bitcoin mining, they’ll be able to send a goat to one family.'

That implies that the coast to delivery a goat is $120.

Now evidence shows that the delivery of a goat is less than half of the value promised. This indicates that there are hidden costs which were not disclosed for the general public. This hidden costs are above any reasonable threshold expected from a charity organization. For each goat obtained for delivery, the charity organization is keeping an extra goat for themselves.

This is attempt of fraud because the hidden costs were not disclosed. The people which will donate is being tricked to believe that $120 is the price to delivery a goat.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/fraud?q=fraud

Quote from: SgtSpike on December 21, 2012, 03:47:50 PM

As Coinlab mentioned, perhaps heifer takes up the task of teaching the people who receive these goats how to care for them, while offloading the responsibility of acquiring and delivering said goats to a 3rd party?

This is a joke, right?

The people which receive the goats do not need a special lessons to receive a goat or to care for goats. People which receive the goats already know what to do, how to do and why to do with a goat. It is part of their cultural formation. What they lack is the goat, not the skills to look after the goats.

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

Quote from: augustocroppo on December 21, 2012, 02:56:16 PM

Wow... I personally understand that as a scam. This was not disclosed so far in the Coinlab internet page:

I wouldn't go that far. Perhaps, a less efficient user of their resources.

As Coinlab mentioned, perhaps heifer takes up the task of teaching the people who receive these goats how to care for them, while offloading the responsibility of acquiring and delivering said goats to a 3rd party?

augustocroppo

vip

Activity: 756

Merit: 504

Quote from: franky1 on December 21, 2012, 01:43:32 PM

i know that bothar is linked with oxfam for the supplys stuff.. but heifer is not a goat SUPPLIER.

heifer ask for £120.. but oxfam/bothar only ask for £50/£55.. so i would prefer to give oxfam the £120 so they can buy atleast 2 goats and 40% towards a 3rd goat. which adds up the more that is donated.

heifer keeps atleast £60-£70 of funds..

i got nothing against a charity that atleast gathers some money for worthy charities as its better then no money.. but for the most effective use of the money. give it to oxfam

Wow... I personally understand that as a scam. This was not disclosed so far in the Coinlab internet page:

http://pool.coinlab.com/partners/goats

Quote

CoinLab’s Give a Goat program lets you donate your idle Graphics Card’s computational power to raise money to be donated a charitable organization.

We offer a small, downloadable Give a Goat client. You download it and let it run in the background to raise money to purchase goats, which are given to impoverished families.

By giving a goat to a family in need, you are providing them with path to lifting themselves out of poverty. The milk goats produce is nutritious and valuable, so the family can stay healthier themselves and sell extra milk as an extra source of income. Goat manure is also a useful fertilizer, so families can make their farmland more productive. Finally, the offspring of the goats can be kept to grow the family’s herd, or sold for additional income.

We believe in the phrase, “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.” When a family receives a goat from one of our partners, they are also educated about animal care, so they learn the skills needed to keep their goats healthy, happy, and productive.

Click here to download the Beta version of the CoinLab Give a Goat Client. If you have any problems, questions, or feedback, email us at [email protected].

Frequenty Asked Questions
What are the system requirements for the client?
- Windows (XP or greater)
- Internet Explorer 6 or higher (we recommend at least IE9 for the best experience)
- One or more Graphics Cards (AMD 5000 Series or higher recommended)
- Up-to-date Graphics card drivers. AMD Drivers, NVIDIA Drivers

What kind of computation are you doing?
At launch, all computation will be Bitcoin Mining, because it is the most valuable compute job today. We're currently working on getting other High Performance Computing work units on our network, such as Protein Folding, Gene Sequencing and Video Encoding.

Bitcoin is a distributed peer-to-peer value-transfer system. New Bitcoins are created by adding computational power to the network. Bitcoin transactions are irreversibly sealed into a permanent public record that the entire network shares and maintains. The last 10 or 20 minutes of the history of this ledger can only be undone with a greater amount of computational power than created it, which is exponentially harder the further back in history you try to undo. Because of this, the bitcoin protocol pays people to add computational power, making it harder and more expensive for people to attack the network. Part of why people think Bitcoins are valuable is because the Bitcoin network is now the world’s largest supercomputer.

CoinLab loves Bitcoin. If you’d like to learn more about Bitcoin, weusecoins.com is a great place to start.

Which Graphics Cards perform best?
Currently, AMD graphics cards tend to earn more than NVIDIA cards. We recommend an AMD 5000 series card or better.

Where can I find the Terms of Service?
Here!

By the way, there is no term of service available.

http://www.geekwire.com/2012/geeks-charity-bitcoin-mining-give-goat/#utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+geekwire+%28GeekWire%29

Quote

How geeks do charity: Use your GPU to churn out goats
December 20, 2012 at 8:13 am by Todd Bishop

Your computer’s graphics processor might be more charitable than you think.

CoinLab, a Seattle-based tech startup that focuses on the Bitcoin digital currency, has come up with a way for PC users to take advantage of their spare GPU cycles to raise money to buy goats for impoverished families around the world.

Yes, real goats. This is not FarmVille. The software program is grounded in the mechanics of the Bitcoin system — in which units of the digital currency are generated in exchange for adding computational power to the Bitcoin network.

Mike Koss and Peter Vessenes

CoinLab, co-founded by Seattle entrepreneurs Peter Vessenes and Mike Koss, normally works with game developers. CoinLab’s program lets gamers voluntarily install a program that makes their idle computing resources available to generate Bitcoins, in exchange for in-game virtual goods and points from the developers.

In the spirit of the holiday season, CoinLab recently created a charitable version of its software for anyone to use — called “Give a Goat.”

Users who download and run the Windows-based software can donate the spare processing time from their GPU to generate Bitcoins for charity. CoinLab says it will donate 100 percent of the proceeds to Heifer International, which provides animals to families to help alleviate hunger throughout the world. For every $120 raised through the Bitcoin mining, they’ll be able to send a goat to one family.

CoinLab explains on its Give a Goat page, “By giving a goat to a family in need, you are providing them with path to lifting themselves out of poverty. The milk goats produce is nutritious and valuable, so the family can stay healthier themselves and sell extra milk as an extra source of income. Goat manure is also a useful fertilizer, so families can make their farmland more productive. Finally, the offspring of the goats can be kept to grow the family’s herd, or sold for additional income.”

They estimate that someone with a good graphics card can earn up to $1 per day toward a goat by running the program. CoinLab will take care of the donation (after converting the Bitcoins into U.S. currency, unless the Heifer project wants the Bitcoins).

The software even comes with a dashboard and dials for users to track their contributions.
Bitcoin was a hot topic in the tech industry at one point last year, but the virtual currency’s price volatility and other problems made many people skeptical. Vessenes and Koss are big believers in Bitcoin’s potential, and hope to help legitimize it for more widespread use. The company raised $500,000 this year from investors including Tim Draper to push ahead with Bitcoin projects.

More background on the “Give a Goat” program is available here.

Phinnaeus Gage

legendary

Activity: 1918

Merit: 1570

Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Franky1 makes a valid point, but as I've already stated, we don't need to run any of the efforts put forth into the ground, albeit I guess I started it, of which I apologies. I did see what you saw, Franky, but tried to present such facts in a subtle way, letting the chips fall as they may, the whole time envisioning a better system during the research of 'Give a Goat' programs.

I started another thread to explore another option: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lets-discuss-give-a-goat-131946

I will not be dissing any efforts presented within this thread, and thank CoinLab for bringing awareness to Bitcoin via a unique means.

~Bruno K~

Topic: GOATS! (Read 3825 times)