Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 100.

iCEBREAKER

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: cypherdoc on July 22, 2015, 02:00:55 PM

interesting. looks like GavinMike are going to pull the trigger soon:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3e64dk/time_to_end_bitcoin_reliance_on_core_and_end_this/ctce5cu?context=3

^ Confirmed.

LOL, the Gavinistas are furiously scribbling their little manifesto. This gonna be good. Grin

Exactly like the Peoples' Front of Judea (or was it the Judean Peoples' Front?)

"What have the core devs ever done for us?"

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: hdbuck on July 22, 2015, 03:19:54 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on July 22, 2015, 03:13:37 PM

Nonsense, the slave trade was thriving between tribes (sub-Saharan African and northern/eastern Arabic) millennia before any Euros arrived.

As a matter of fact, it was the Christian Euros who eventually stopped thousands of years of slaving traditions.

I guess you think it was evil pasty-white French people that harnessed the manpower to build the pyramids... Cheesy

wtf?! being french i would not think so, but yea, whatever you think with your eloquent sociological bs.. like i'd give a dam. Tongue

I know what I'm talking about; you do not.

The "sociological bs" here is entirely of your own creation:

Quote from: hdbuck on July 22, 2015, 07:49:08 AM

foreigners controls both the trade and the regulation.
remember they regulated the slave trade.. Roll Eyes

You may form your own opinions, but not your own facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: bucktotal on July 22, 2015, 03:27:07 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on July 22, 2015, 03:05:17 PM

this really isn't good and is reason for us to want to increase the growth of new users by whatever means necessary:

Despite a decline of approximately 40% in bitcoin purchases, Connie Chung, senior payments product manager at Expedia, says the option to pay with the digital currency will remain as long as there is a demand for it.

Chung noted other merchants had been more affected by what she called a recent decline in bitcoin payments – with some reporting a decrease of up to 90% at various industry events.

According to the report, the fundamental challenge facing bitcoin as a medium of exchange of legal goods continues to be low consumer adoption and a lack of advantages over credit and debit cards.

http://www.coindesk.com/expedia-exec-purchases-with-bitcoin-are-down-40/?utm_content=buffer59a4e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

im just not too concerned about this one. pretty much everyone who has bought bitcoin over the past 2 yrs is even or under water. no point spending them at a loss. Also, the early adopters who could be spending their coins on hotels/etc. realize that "store of value" and "im not selling this low" are still valid reasons not to be spending them yet as well. im also spending my fiat more than bitcoins at the moment. if my net worth jumps another 5-10x, i'm sure i'll start spending them again. its still a buy and hold imo

Merchant adoption could be non-existant for all I care. Total non-issue.

cypherdoc

legendary

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Quote from: bucktotal on July 22, 2015, 03:27:07 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on July 22, 2015, 03:05:17 PM

this really isn't good and is reason for us to want to increase the growth of new users by whatever means necessary:

Despite a decline of approximately 40% in bitcoin purchases, Connie Chung, senior payments product manager at Expedia, says the option to pay with the digital currency will remain as long as there is a demand for it.

Chung noted other merchants had been more affected by what she called a recent decline in bitcoin payments – with some reporting a decrease of up to 90% at various industry events.

According to the report, the fundamental challenge facing bitcoin as a medium of exchange of legal goods continues to be low consumer adoption and a lack of advantages over credit and debit cards.

http://www.coindesk.com/expedia-exec-purchases-with-bitcoin-are-down-40/?utm_content=buffer59a4e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

im just not too concerned about this one. pretty much everyone who has bought bitcoin over the past 2 yrs is even or under water. no point spending them at a loss. Also, the early adopters who could be spending their coins on hotels/etc. realize that "store of value" and "im not selling this low" are still valid reasons not to be spending them yet as well. im also spending my fiat more than bitcoins at the moment. if my net worth jumps another 5-10x, i'm sure i'll start spending them again. its still a buy and hold imo

you just want to make sure we're not getting into a contraction cycle that we can't pull out of. i'd much rather see us with momentum in the other direction with increasing user base that would undoubtedly drive price. i don't think there is any shame in wanting higher prices b/c if Bitcoin really is going to be moving around large values then the price needs to be higher so as not to produce too much volatility as $millions cross borders in single tx's for purchases of homes, cars, et.

bucktotal

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Quote from: cypherdoc on July 22, 2015, 03:05:17 PM

this really isn't good and is reason for us to want to increase the growth of new users by whatever means necessary:

Despite a decline of approximately 40% in bitcoin purchases, Connie Chung, senior payments product manager at Expedia, says the option to pay with the digital currency will remain as long as there is a demand for it.

Chung noted other merchants had been more affected by what she called a recent decline in bitcoin payments – with some reporting a decrease of up to 90% at various industry events.

According to the report, the fundamental challenge facing bitcoin as a medium of exchange of legal goods continues to be low consumer adoption and a lack of advantages over credit and debit cards.

http://www.coindesk.com/expedia-exec-purchases-with-bitcoin-are-down-40/?utm_content=buffer59a4e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

im just not too concerned about this one. pretty much everyone who has bought bitcoin over the past 2 yrs is even or under water. no point spending them at a loss. Also, the early adopters who could be spending their coins on hotels/etc. realize that "store of value" and "im not selling this low" are still valid reasons not to be spending them yet as well. im also spending my fiat more than bitcoins at the moment. if my net worth jumps another 5-10x, i'm sure i'll start spending them again. its still a buy and hold imo

hdbuck

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on July 22, 2015, 03:13:37 PM

Quote from: hdbuck on July 22, 2015, 07:49:08 AM

foreigners controls both the trade and the regulation.
remember they regulated the slave trade.. Roll Eyes

Nonsense, the slave trade was thriving between tribes (sub-Saharan African and northern/eastern Arabic) millennia before any Euros arrived.

As a matter of fact, it was the Christian Euros who eventually stopped thousands of years of slaving traditions.

I guess you think it was evil pasty-white French people that harnessed the manpower to build the pyramids... Cheesy

wtf?! being french i would not think so, but yea, whatever you think with your eloquent sociological bs.. like i'd give a dam. Tongue

edit: and oh i almost forgot.. africa needs messi (who needs 4 millions..)

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/22/report-lionel-messi-paid-4-million-by-gabons-president-to-lay-one-brick/

XD

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: hdbuck on July 22, 2015, 07:49:08 AM

foreigners controls both the trade and the regulation.
remember they regulated the slave trade.. Roll Eyes

Nonsense, the slave trade was thriving between tribes (sub-Saharan African and northern/eastern Arabic) millennia before any Euros arrived.

As a matter of fact, it was the Christian Euros who eventually stopped thousands of years of slaving traditions.

I guess you think it was evil pasty-white French people that harnessed the manpower to build the pyramids... Cheesy

unyeli

newbie

Activity: 3

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on July 22, 2015, 03:01:50 PM

Quote from: hdbuck on July 22, 2015, 07:36:13 AM

Quote from: Erdogan on July 22, 2015, 07:06:39 AM

hdbuck: So they need to have exactly what we have, including the socialism? (Pointing at Greece). And who should give them all that, you? No, let them trade freely, say I.

eh, utlimately i'd argue that Africans need to kick the "white man" out of their continent.
its been too long already they have been spoiled, killed and manipulated by the West/North.

Oh please spare us your anti-industrialist, neo-primitivist, affluent liberal guilt.

The Chinese, having no local version of White Man's Burden or liberal guilt, will make the Africans long for the days of semi-benevolent Christian colonial powers from Europe.

"What did the Romans ever done for us?" Roll Eyes

The shittiest, most hopeless parts of Africa are exactly the places which have kicked out the white man. EG Liberia, Zimbabwe, etc.

good

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

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this really isn't good and is reason for us to want to increase the growth of new users by whatever means necessary:

Despite a decline of approximately 40% in bitcoin purchases, Connie Chung, senior payments product manager at Expedia, says the option to pay with the digital currency will remain as long as there is a demand for it.

Chung noted other merchants had been more affected by what she called a recent decline in bitcoin payments – with some reporting a decrease of up to 90% at various industry events.

According to the report, the fundamental challenge facing bitcoin as a medium of exchange of legal goods continues to be low consumer adoption and a lack of advantages over credit and debit cards.

http://www.coindesk.com/expedia-exec-purchases-with-bitcoin-are-down-40/?utm_content=buffer59a4e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: hdbuck on July 22, 2015, 07:36:13 AM

Quote from: Erdogan on July 22, 2015, 07:06:39 AM

hdbuck: So they need to have exactly what we have, including the socialism? (Pointing at Greece). And who should give them all that, you? No, let them trade freely, say I.

eh, utlimately i'd argue that Africans need to kick the "white man" out of their continent.
its been too long already they have been spoiled, killed and manipulated by the West/North.

Oh please spare us your anti-industrialist, neo-primitivist, affluent liberal guilt.

The Chinese, having no local version of White Man's Burden or liberal guilt, will make the Africans long for the days of semi-benevolent Christian colonial powers from Europe.

"What have the Romans ever done for us?" Roll Eyes

The shittiest, most hopeless parts of Africa are exactly the places which have kicked out the white man. EG Liberia, Zimbabwe, etc.

cypherdoc

legendary

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funny as hell. who dat?:

cypherdoc

legendary

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Dow -101

cypherdoc

legendary

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CAT doesn't look so good:

and like i said the other day, sub $50 oil here we are!:

cypherdoc

legendary

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interesting. looks like GavinMike are going to pull the trigger soon:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3e64dk/time_to_end_bitcoin_reliance_on_core_and_end_this/ctce5cu?context=3

inca

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Kicking off on reddit, too.

cypherdoc

legendary

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Garzik just hit it out of the park with this one in response to Wuille:

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Pieter Wuille via bitcoin-dev <[email protected]> wrote:

   >Some people have called the prospect of limited block space and the development of a fee market a change in policy compared to the past. I respectfully disagree with that. Bitcoin Core is not running the Bitcoin economy, and its developers have no authority to set its rules. Change in economics is always happening, and should be expected. Worse, intervening in consensus changes would make the ecosystem more dependent on the group taking that decision, not less.

This completely ignores reality, what users have experienced for the past ~6 years.

"Change in economics is always happening" does not begin to approach the scale of the change.

For the entirety of bitcoin's history, absent long blocks and traffic bursts, fee pressure has been largely absent.

Moving to a new economic policy where fee pressure is consistently present is radically different from what users, markets, and software have experienced and lived.

Analysis such as [1][2] and more shows that users will hit a "painful" "wall" and market disruption will occur - eventually settling to a new equilibrium after a period of chaos - when blocks are consistently full.

[1] http://hashingit.com/analysis/34-bitcoin-traffic-bulletin
[2] http://gavinandresen.ninja/why-increasing-the-max-block-size-is-urgent

First, users & market are forced through this period of chaos by "let a fee market develop" as the whole market changes to a radically different economic policy, once the network has never seen before.

Next, when blocks are consistently full, the past consensus was that block size limit will be increased eventually. What happens at that point?

Answer - Users & market are forced through a second period of chaos and disruption as the fee market is rebooted again by changing the block size limit.

The average user hears a lot of noise on both sides of the block size debate, and really has no idea that the new "let a fee market develop" Bitcoin Core policy is going to raise fees on them.

It is clear that
- "let the fee market develop, Right Now" has not been thought through
- Users are not prepared for a brand new economic policy
- Users are unaware that a brand new economic policy will be foisted upon them

   >So to point out what I consider obvious: if Bitcoin requires central control over its rules by a group of developers, it is completely uninteresting to me. Consensus changes should be done using consensus, and the default in case of controversy is no change.

False.

All that has to do be done to change bitcoin to a new economic policy - not seen in the entire 6 year history of bitcoin - is to stonewall work on block size.

Closing size increase PRs and failing to participate in planning for a block size increase accomplishes your stated goal of changing bitcoin to a new economic policy.

"no code change"... changes bitcoin to a brand new economic policy, picking economic winners & losers. Some businesses will be priced out of bitcoin, etc.

Stonewalling size increase changes is just as much as a Ben Bernanke/FOMC move as increasing the hard limit by hard fork.

   > My personal opinion is that we - as a community - should indeed let a fee market develop, and rather sooner than later, and that "kicking the can down the road" is an incredibly dangerous precedent: if we are willing to go through the risk of a hard fork because of a fear of change of economics, then I believe that community is not ready to deal with change at all. And some change is inevitable, at any block size. Again, this does not mean the block size needs to be fixed forever, but its intent should be growing with the evolution of technology, not a panic reaction because a fear of change. But I am not in any position to force this view. I only hope that people don't think a fear of economic change is reason to give up consensus.

Actually you are.

When size increase progress gets frozen out of Bitcoin Core, that just increases the chances that progress must be made through a contentious hard fork.

Further, it increases the market disruption users will experience, as described above.

Think about the users. Please.

cypherdoc

legendary

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to the Moon:

cypherdoc

legendary

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$DJI continuing it's catchdown:

cypherdoc

legendary

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Quote from: hdbuck on July 22, 2015, 08:41:15 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on July 22, 2015, 08:33:02 AM

Quote from: hdbuck on July 22, 2015, 07:00:01 AM

Quote from: Erdogan on July 22, 2015, 06:53:11 AM

Quote from: hdbuck on July 22, 2015, 06:47:32 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on July 22, 2015, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: Wexlike on July 22, 2015, 06:04:50 AM

Quote from: OROBTC on July 21, 2015, 10:12:48 PM

...

iCEBREAKER

I must be an Asshole Libertarian (because that's just kinda the way I am), but even lil ol moi thinks that security and health of the Bitcoin Ecosystem might require the occasional *tweak* now and then. As in my idea posted a couple of weeks or so ago re minimum BTC amounts (sayBTC0.001) and/or minimum fees (say, BTC0.0003) to fight off the spammers...

I don't mind paying a bit more for my BTC payment to go through. And, really, who needs micropayments? (Oh...., was that an ominous silence I just heard in here?)

* * *

(Hear you re getting rich programming if I could do really advanced calculations)

And this thinking would drive all the markets that infact need the bitcoin ecosystem, either to offchain solutions or cryptocurrencies with a lower fee.

I am talking about the unbanked and poor economies.

Bitcoin should want to include those who need it most for its own protection aka decentralization.

Who need it most?!
And Please dont tell me the "unbanked". They need ~~money~~ food?!, not bitcoin.

Those most in need are those who have to live with tariffs, regulations and currency controls. It includes people in poor countries. Look at Africa and the middle east, there is almost no trade between neighbouring countries, it is almost all import and export to the west.

That is pure fud if not bs, whatever you like.

Im not denying african's problems, but bitcoin is so not going to change anything there.

They need to get rid of corruption, access water, food, first necessity Goods, medicine, etc etc..

Why da f*ck would they need internet money? Seriously this is beyond utopia, this is nonsense. Not that it is good to care about them poor people, but you are obviously blurred by either greed or stupidity.

You have heard of m-pesa haven't you?

Did it ever occur to you that an African actually might want to use a phone to transmit magic virtual money?

yes i know mpesa. they did not waited for bitcoin to start their buisness.

And bitcoin should be allowed to disrupt that business too.

Wexlike

legendary

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After some time an entire continent should be responsible for its self. Stop blaming the "white man" for everything that goes wrong in africa.

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 100. (Read 2032247 times)