Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1020.

justusranvier

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Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 12:28:44 PM

You've clearly missed the point. Bitcoin was not designed to be an extensible platform, it was designed to be a currency. The two can help each other.

You're also missing the point. Incorporating new features into the Bitcoin ecosystem does not require changes to the Bitcoin protocol.

Anything NXT can do, Open-Transactions can do using Bitcoin (or any other curency) as its basis, without requiring any kind of special token.

We know they are the project that is actually trying to solve real problems instead of P&D their appcoin, because they don't have an appcoin.

Also the fact that so many people flock to the appcoin P&D platforms instead of OT shows how much they are interested in solving real problem.

_mr_e

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Quote from: justusranvier on August 18, 2014, 12:23:25 PM

Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 12:18:24 PM

But ignoring the advantages of these system IS short sighted... if not Nxt then something else! I for one will continue to hedge my bets and keep looking for the most awesome technology I can find.

Investing in their appcoin is short sighted.

Where they make genuine improvements, copy those improvements and add them to Bitcoin.

Win-win for everybody, except the people who invest in the appcoins.

You've clearly missed the point. Bitcoin was not designed to be an extensible platform, it was designed to be a currency. The two can help each other.

dompsairs

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I sold some of my old gold bracelets while im hodling BtC even after the low price. Cool

justusranvier

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Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 12:18:24 PM

But ignoring the advantages of these system IS short sighted... if not Nxt then something else! I for one will continue to hedge my bets and keep looking for the most awesome technology I can find.

Investing in their appcoin is short sighted.

Where they make genuine improvements, copy those improvements and add them to Bitcoin.

Win-win for everybody, except the people who invest in the appcoins.

_mr_e

legendary

Activity: 817

Merit: 1000

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2014, 11:49:03 AM

Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 11:27:16 AM

You might be interested to read the discussion Vitalik came over and had with the nxt developers where he comes to the conclusion that nxt does things much better then it looks on the surface

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bounty-for-successful-nothing-at-stake-attack/msg60114/#msg60114

To quote vbuterin

"So basically you use transactions-as-proof-of-stake. That sounds reasonable; it's as good as I can think of at this point, although it has the moderately-serious-but-not-fatal flaws that I described in my On Stake article. I eagerly await a full whitepaper description and open source code of your complete protocol so both myself and more formal academics can properly whack at the specifics."

Also Nxt cannot be forked back more then 720 blocks so that alone would thwart the attack mentioned in your paper. Not to mention the economic clustering feature and transparent forging that's in development...

Just like with bitcoin, I'd thought you be more aware that systems evolve. Just looking at their surface and taking them at face value is incredibly short sighted.

like i've said before, Vitalik's understanding of "fairness" doesn't impress me. so how does he apply his view of the world into Ethereum and now NXT? probably the same way.

you talk like NXT is a guaranteed success and everyone who disagrees with you is shortsighted. you may be right; but again you may be wrong.

For sure, I could be wrong, but you seem to talk like Nxt is completely doomed from the start and has no features that people may find useful or push crypto forward. Majority of my money is still in bitcoin. But ignoring the advantages of these system IS short sighted... if not Nxt then something else! I for one will continue to hedge my bets and keep looking for the most awesome technology I can find.

notme

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The only difference between PoW and PoS is that with PoW you have to commit to a chain to apply your efforts. With PoS, there is no cost to agree with multiple forks at once, hedging your bets. This is the missing resource tether that lets it float free. Stakeholders could keep forging the popular fork, while they maintain and gain support for a side fork with negligible additional cost. It may have a use, but as a sound money it doesn't seem as solid as PoW.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 11:27:16 AM

You might be interested to read the discussion Vitalik came over and had with the nxt developers where he comes to the conclusion that nxt does things much better then it looks on the surface

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bounty-for-successful-nothing-at-stake-attack/msg60114/#msg60114

To quote vbuterin

"So basically you use transactions-as-proof-of-stake. That sounds reasonable; it's as good as I can think of at this point, although it has the moderately-serious-but-not-fatal flaws that I described in my On Stake article. I eagerly await a full whitepaper description and open source code of your complete protocol so both myself and more formal academics can properly whack at the specifics."

Also Nxt cannot be forked back more then 720 blocks so that alone would thwart the attack mentioned in your paper. Not to mention the economic clustering feature and transparent forging that's in development...

Just like with bitcoin, I'd thought you be more aware that systems evolve. Just looking at their surface and taking them at face value is incredibly short sighted.

like i've said before, Vitalik's understanding of "fairness" doesn't impress me. so how does he apply his view of the world into Ethereum and now NXT? probably the same way.

you talk like NXT is a guaranteed success and everyone who disagrees with you is shortsighted. you may be right; but again you may be wrong.

_mr_e

legendary

Activity: 817

Merit: 1000

You might be interested to read the discussion Vitalik came over and had with the nxt developers where he comes to the conclusion that nxt does things much better then it looks on the surface

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bounty-for-successful-nothing-at-stake-attack/msg60114/#msg60114

To quote vbuterin

"So basically you use transactions-as-proof-of-stake. That sounds reasonable; it's as good as I can think of at this point, although it has the moderately-serious-but-not-fatal flaws that I described in my On Stake article. I eagerly await a full whitepaper description and open source code of your complete protocol so both myself and more formal academics can properly whack at the specifics."

Also Nxt cannot be forked back more then 720 blocks so that alone would thwart the attack mentioned in your paper. Not to mention the economic clustering feature and transparent forging that's in development...

Just like with bitcoin, I'd thought you be more aware that systems evolve. Just looking at their surface and taking them at face value is incredibly short sighted.

_mr_e

legendary

Activity: 817

Merit: 1000

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2014, 11:03:05 AM

Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 10:57:52 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2014, 10:55:46 AM

Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 10:42:18 AM

Bter paid the hacker 200 btc and the hacker kept 8 million which means he now has a stake in hoping the price of Nxt rises.

and this is a good thing how? negotiating and rewarding a thief? who still now holds 8M NXT and is now a sanctioned stakeholder who can now manipulate forged blocks for his own advancement within the system?

It honestly just seems like you are picking at every little negative you can find and completely ignoring any of the benefits... I really thought you were more open minded then this. 8 million nxt won't even get a forger very far. Just like with bitcoin he has to play by the rules or fork himself away from the main chain.

nitpicking? really? 5% of the entire NXT issuance just got stolen from the hot wallet of the main exchange. he just got paid off $100000 to return the NXT coins to bailout the customers. who will learn anything from this except the thief who now understands that criminality pays. and yes, it is a problem that he still holds 8M in a POS system that rewards stakeholders by depending on them to forge blocks. read the paper on POS that was presented here yesterday.

That article only applies to the original proof of stake concept, as used in peercoin. It does not apply to nxt or even bitshares as they uses a far more evolved form of PoS.

cypherdoc

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Eric King interviews Andrew Huszar responsible for QE1. always good to hear that you're not imagining things:

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2014/8/3_Andrew_Huszar.html

cypherdoc

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Activity: 1764

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Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 10:57:52 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2014, 10:55:46 AM

Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 10:42:18 AM

Bter paid the hacker 200 btc and the hacker kept 8 million which means he now has a stake in hoping the price of Nxt rises.

and this is a good thing how? negotiating and rewarding a thief? who still now holds 8M NXT and is now a sanctioned stakeholder who can now manipulate forged blocks for his own advancement within the system?

It honestly just seems like you are picking at every little negative you can find and completely ignoring any of the benefits... I really thought you were more open minded then this. 8 million nxt won't even get a forger very far. Just like with bitcoin he has to play by the rules or fork himself away from the main chain.

nitpicking? really? 5% of the entire NXT issuance just got stolen from the hot wallet of the main exchange. he just got paid off $100000 to return the NXT coins to bailout the customers. who will learn anything from this except the thief who now understands that criminality pays. and yes, it is a problem that he still holds 8M in a POS system that rewards stakeholders by depending on them to forge blocks. read the paper on POS that was presented here yesterday.

_mr_e

legendary

Activity: 817

Merit: 1000

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2014, 10:55:46 AM

Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 10:42:18 AM

Bter paid the hacker 200 btc and the hacker kept 8 million which means he now has a stake in hoping the price of Nxt rises.

and this is a good thing how? negotiating and rewarding a thief? who still now holds 8M NXT and is now a sanctioned stakeholder who can now manipulate forged blocks for his own advancement within the system?

It honestly just seems like you are picking at every little negative you can find and completely ignoring any of the benefits... No matter what the solution was you would have had a problem with it. I really thought you were more open minded then this. 8 million nxt won't even get a forger very far. Just like with bitcoin he has to play by the rules or fork himself away from the main chain.

and yes, this is a much better situation then him owning 50 million. I don't give a shit how much bter is out of pocket or that they "rewarded" the hacker, it was their fault and they have managed to fix it make the nxt system better off. Respect to them for that, it couldn't have been done any better.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 10:42:18 AM

Bter paid the hacker 200 btc and the hacker kept 8 million which means he now has a stake in hoping the price of Nxt rises.

and this is a good thing how? negotiating and rewarding a thief? who still now holds 8M NXT and is now a sanctioned stakeholder who can now manipulate forged blocks for his own advancement within the system?

Erdogan

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This must mean something:

"Exiles Launch Venezuela’s First Bitcoin Exchange"

http://panampost.com/belen-marty/2014/08/18/exiles-launch-venezuelas-first-bitcoin-exchange/

_mr_e

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Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2014, 10:37:03 AM

Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 10:31:03 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2014, 10:28:07 AM

Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 08:34:32 AM

The point being that nxt is a feature platform before a currency and other coins can take advantage of these features by integrating nxt core into their client.

i'm comforted to hear that 5% of the NXT stakeholder market is a confirmed thief who will have forging rights on all future blocks. perhaps he will attempt to write even more of a stake into his holdings?

I guess you didn't hear that 85% of the nxt was returned to bter? And that now many more users are aware that they should be using the multigateway to trade rather then storing their nxt on a centralized exchange?

what did u have to do to get the thief to return 85% of the stolen NXT? and will Bter ever stop using a hot wallet? and will NXT users really learn to not leave NXT on an exchange if they've been bailed out?

Bter paid the hacker 200 btc and the hacker kept 8 million which means he now has a stake in the price of Nxt rising.

The multigateway is a no fee, in client, decentralized trading platform that is far superior to any centralized exchange and is now handling the most volume out of any exchange - and it's still in beta! Have you even looked into the technology at all? This website is built on the nxt api and this is the btc asset: https://trade.secureae.com/#4551058913252105307. It is also possible to deposit btc or ltc (soon many other coins are coming) and buy Nxt directly from the comfort of your own client: https://i.imgur.com/imaE0Gs.png. As even more people start using this and the volume continues to grow there will be no need for your nxt to leave your control again to trade. Soon instant trading will be introduced(rather then having to wait for a block). I'm sorry, but this is a massive breakthrough - I can't understand why this technology upsets you so much, it's only going to help crypto as a whole.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 10:31:03 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2014, 10:28:07 AM

Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 08:34:32 AM

The point being that nxt is a feature platform before a currency and other coins can take advantage of these features by integrating nxt core into their client.

i'm comforted to hear that 5% of the NXT stakeholder market is a confirmed thief who will have forging rights on all future blocks. perhaps he will attempt to write even more of a stake into his holdings?

I guess you didn't hear that 85% of the nxt was returned to bter? And that now many more users are aware that they should be using the multigateway to trade rather then storing their nxt on a centralized exchange?

what did u have to do to get the thief to return 85% of the stolen NXT? and will Bter ever stop using a hot wallet? and will NXT users really learn to not leave NXT on an exchange if they've been bailed out?

cypherdoc

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https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/501391679942049792

_mr_e

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Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2014, 10:28:07 AM

Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 08:34:32 AM

The point being that nxt is a feature platform before a currency and other coins can take advantage of these features by integrating nxt core into their client.

i'm comforted to hear that 5% of the NXT stakeholder market is a confirmed thief who will have forging rights on all future blocks. perhaps he will attempt to write even more of a stake into his holdings?

I guess you didn't hear that 85% of the nxt was returned to bter? And that now many more users are aware that they should be using the multigateway to trade rather then storing their nxt on a centralized exchange?

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 08:34:32 AM

The point being that nxt is a feature platform before a currency and other coins can take advantage of these features by integrating nxt core into their client.

i'm comforted to hear that 5% of the NXT stakeholder market is a confirmed thief who will have forging rights on all future blocks. perhaps he will attempt to write even more of a stake into his holdings?

kodtycoon

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Quote from: _mr_e on August 18, 2014, 08:34:32 AM

The point being that nxt is a feature platform before a currency and other coins can take advantage of these features by integrating nxt core into their client.

allot of people that are involved in btcd dont even realise that its going to be facilitating a new feature in nxt lol james aint doing that coding for nothing lol

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