Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1178.

billyjoeallen

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Quote from: NewLiberty on February 02, 2014, 10:56:14 AM

Who bails out the Fed when it is insolvent. If interest rates start climbing at all, it can wipe them out pretty swiftly.

The IMF?
The US Taxpayer?
Neither of these have the funds to do it.

cant they keep printing?

yes

sidhujag

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Fed files for bankruptcy and govt takes the assets which are worthless.. us govt claimd bankruptcy and owners of bonds are on the hook.

NewLiberty

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Gresham's Lawyer

Who bails out the Fed when it is insolvent. If interest rates start climbing at all, it can wipe them out pretty swiftly.

The IMF?
The US Taxpayer?
Neither of these have the funds to do it.

zeetubes

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Quote from: Dr Bloggood on February 02, 2014, 10:06:50 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on February 01, 2014, 08:17:55 PM

Quote from: zeetubes on February 01, 2014, 08:06:37 PM

This quote came from the summary of last week's FOMC meeting. I don't really understand how it works or how often it will be used but it implies another non-QE way to keep stoking the markets.

"The Fed also extended an experimental program which it could someday use to manage short-term interest rates. Known as a "reverse repo" facility, the program uses the Fed's portfolio of bonds as collateral for loans to market participants and uses the rate on those loans to influence market rates. The experiment was set to expire Wednesday, but the Fed extended it for a year until Jan. 2015. They increased caps on the size of trades the Fed can make to $5 billion per counterparty from $3 billion"

i.e. we'll taper by $10B but we'll pump that and more back into the markets by any means possible.

Good catch. I did not know anything about that stinky little program ... actually not that little by the sound of it.

Gawd whatta mess. The Fed is now sitting on a pile of debt (some of it unmarketable, i.e. worthless except when using the right 'model') that it bought off busted-ass banks to get it off their books ... now it turns around and posts those bonds as collateral for loans to 'market participants' i.e. probably the same busted-ass banks it bought them off ... it's just lunatic asylum stuff. How many more times can they chase the same crappy debt around the circle and still fool the markets it is worth anything whatsoever?

I have never heard of that one either. The MSM don't like to write about it apparently.

5 billion per counterparty sounds like a lot.

So that might be the next step: Reduce public QE, while increasing the QE coming in through the backdoor.

The Fed is literally destroying the world economy and they are the single biggest obstacle to any recovery. I don't care if it is gold or bitcoin that finally fucks them but I suspect that one of them or a combination will finally do it. Best comment I read about the change of Fed ruler is that at least Ben can leave the toilet seat up for his replacement. I bet her computer will still have an "out of CTL-P" key.

Dr Bloggood

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on February 01, 2014, 08:17:55 PM

Quote from: zeetubes on February 01, 2014, 08:06:37 PM

This quote came from the summary of last week's FOMC meeting. I don't really understand how it works or how often it will be used but it implies another non-QE way to keep stoking the markets.

"The Fed also extended an experimental program which it could someday use to manage short-term interest rates. Known as a "reverse repo" facility, the program uses the Fed's portfolio of bonds as collateral for loans to market participants and uses the rate on those loans to influence market rates. The experiment was set to expire Wednesday, but the Fed extended it for a year until Jan. 2015. They increased caps on the size of trades the Fed can make to $5 billion per counterparty from $3 billion"

i.e. we'll taper by $10B but we'll pump that and more back into the markets by any means possible.

Good catch. I did not know anything about that stinky little program ... actually not that little by the sound of it.

Gawd whatta mess. The Fed is now sitting on a pile of debt (some of it unmarketable, i.e. worthless except when using the right 'model') that it bought off busted-ass banks to get it off their books ... now it turns around and posts those bonds as collateral for loans to 'market participants' i.e. probably the same busted-ass banks it bought them off ... it's just lunatic asylum stuff. How many more times can they chase the same crappy debt around the circle and still fool the markets it is worth anything whatsoever?

I have never heard of that one either. The MSM don't like to write about it apparently.

5 billion per counterparty sounds like a lot.

So that might be the next step: Reduce public QE, while increasing the QE coming in through the backdoor.

sidhujag

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Quote from: Dusty on February 01, 2014, 02:59:10 PM

Quote from: sidhujag on February 01, 2014, 12:18:32 PM

One of the best reads on this: http://m.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-real-housewives-of-wall-street-look-whos-cashing-in-on-the-bailout-20110411

I strongly urge anyone who hasnt read it to please read.

Wow that article is a pretty big deal, I can't understand how I could miss it, it should be reprinted everywhere.

Yes, please, anyone who hasn't read it, I urge it to.

Ya not many ppl caught it.. i got it the day it came out told all my forex buddies.. ill never forget it.

sidhujag

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Quote from: zeetubes on February 01, 2014, 08:06:37 PM

This quote came from the summary of last week's FOMC meeting. I don't really understand how it works or how often it will be used but it implies another non-QE way to keep stoking the markets.

"The Fed also extended an experimental program which it could someday use to manage short-term interest rates. Known as a "reverse repo" facility, the program uses the Fed's portfolio of bonds as collateral for loans to market participants and uses the rate on those loans to influence market rates. The experiment was set to expire Wednesday, but the Fed extended it for a year until Jan. 2015. They increased caps on the size of trades the Fed can make to $5 billion per counterparty from $3 billion"

i.e. we'll taper by $10B but we'll pump that and more back into the markets by any means possible.

They increased leveraged essentially because of snowball effect they have to... they can have multiple counterparties... they didnt say what leverage they r getting for that collateral.

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: zeetubes on February 01, 2014, 08:06:37 PM

This quote came from the summary of last week's FOMC meeting. I don't really understand how it works or how often it will be used but it implies another non-QE way to keep stoking the markets.

"The Fed also extended an experimental program which it could someday use to manage short-term interest rates. Known as a "reverse repo" facility, the program uses the Fed's portfolio of bonds as collateral for loans to market participants and uses the rate on those loans to influence market rates. The experiment was set to expire Wednesday, but the Fed extended it for a year until Jan. 2015. They increased caps on the size of trades the Fed can make to $5 billion per counterparty from $3 billion"

i.e. we'll taper by $10B but we'll pump that and more back into the markets by any means possible.

Good catch. I did not know anything about that stinky little program ... actually not that little by the sound of it.

Gawd whatta mess. The Fed is now sitting on a pile of debt (some of it unmarketable, i.e. worthless except when using the right 'model') that it bought off busted-ass banks to get it off their books ... now it turns around and posts those bonds as collateral for loans to 'market participants' i.e. probably the same busted-ass banks it bought them off ... it's just lunatic asylum stuff. How many more times can they chase the same crappy debt around the circle and still fool the markets it is worth anything whatsoever?

zeetubes

sr. member

Activity: 371

Merit: 250

This quote came from the summary of last week's FOMC meeting. I don't really understand how it works or how often it will be used but it implies another non-QE way to keep stoking the markets.

"The Fed also extended an experimental program which it could someday use to manage short-term interest rates. Known as a "reverse repo" facility, the program uses the Fed's portfolio of bonds as collateral for loans to market participants and uses the rate on those loans to influence market rates. The experiment was set to expire Wednesday, but the Fed extended it for a year until Jan. 2015. They increased caps on the size of trades the Fed can make to $5 billion per counterparty from $3 billion"

i.e. we'll taper by $10B but we'll pump that and more back into the markets by any means possible.

Dr Bloggood

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Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: Dusty on February 01, 2014, 11:29:20 AM

Quote from: Dr Bloggood on February 01, 2014, 11:25:12 AM

I don't understand your question - do you mean "how can we trust the Fed is doing the right thing"?

No, certainly not, nobody sane would suggest that the Fed is doing the "right" thing, me first

I would like to understand how it's possible to _verify_ how much the Fed is lending and how, since the movement "audit the Fed" had not much luck..

The Fed can and likely does inject more liquidity into the system than it admits. Some claim the real number is $130 (now $110) billions or even more. I haven't looked into how that works, but it would be interesting to know. So let us know if you find out!

EDIT: Here I have an excerpt for you from a blog I love, it's Andy Hoffman from Miles Franklin. Sure those guys have PMs to sell, but I learned a lot from their writings. Hoffman is counting it in a way so the real effective QE is actually about $130 billion. He writes:

"Unfortunately, the giant pink elephant in the room has been entirely ignored. That is, the massive losses incurred by the Fed’s portfolio as a result of rising interest rates. To wit, from May 2nd through December 18th, the 10-year yield nearly doubled, from 1.63% to 2.94%. Consequently, the above calculations heavily understate the actual level of QE; which, in order to maintain the aforementioned $4.0 trillion balance sheet total, had to be increased by a whopping $329 billion to offset an estimated 9% capital loss."

Here is the article, the interesting part starts halfway through:

http://blog.milesfranklin.com/proof-of-the-tapering-mirage

cypherdoc

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Quote from: sidhujag on February 01, 2014, 12:18:32 PM

Quote from: Dusty on February 01, 2014, 11:29:20 AM

Quote from: Dr Bloggood on February 01, 2014, 11:25:12 AM

I don't understand your question - do you mean "how can we trust the Fed is doing the right thing"?

No, certainly not, nobody sane would suggest that the Fed is doing the "right" thing, me first

I would like to understand how it's possible to _verify_ how much the Fed is lending and how, since the movement "audit the Fed" had not much luck..

BTW, I profit to signal this one that is good for a laugh:
Hedge-Fund Manager Paul Singer ‘Shocked’ by Bitcoin Popularity

Instead, Mr. Singer encouraged investors to consider gold, which he wrote was “currently available at a good price.” As The Wall Street Journal reported earlier this month, some hedge fund investors have been taking advantage of gold’s largest annual decline in 32 years to increase their bullish gold wagers.

“Gold is out of fashion, but we think the explanation for why it has been drifting down is not compelling. The economy seems stuck in the doldrums, but most so-called ‘experts’ have been changing their minds almost weekly about when they think the economy will finally begin a long-term acceleration to the upside,” Mr. Singer wrote in the letter.

One of the best reads on this: http://m.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-real-housewives-of-wall-street-look-whos-cashing-in-on-the-bailout-20110411

I strongly urge anyone who hasnt read it to please read.

those kinda articles enrage the hell outta me. Matt Taiibi has done some of the best articles on that whole fiasco known as the GFC of 2008-9. the ripoffs were and are just astounding and were critical in understanding why Bitcoin was destined to do what it has done. totally unsurprising why we now have the greatest wealth disparity in this country since 1929.

that story dovetails nicely with this well known video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJqM2tFOxLQ

Bernanke, Geithner, and Paulson, et al will go down in history as criminals.

Dusty

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Libertas a calumnia

Quote from: sidhujag on February 01, 2014, 12:18:32 PM

One of the best reads on this: http://m.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-real-housewives-of-wall-street-look-whos-cashing-in-on-the-bailout-20110411

I strongly urge anyone who hasnt read it to please read.

Wow that article is a pretty big deal, I can't understand how I could miss it, it should be reprinted everywhere.

Yes, please, anyone who hasn't read it, I urge it to.

sidhujag

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Activity: 2044

Merit: 1005

Quote from: Dusty on February 01, 2014, 11:29:20 AM

Quote from: Dr Bloggood on February 01, 2014, 11:25:12 AM

I don't understand your question - do you mean "how can we trust the Fed is doing the right thing"?

No, certainly not, nobody sane would suggest that the Fed is doing the "right" thing, me first

I would like to understand how it's possible to _verify_ how much the Fed is lending and how, since the movement "audit the Fed" had not much luck..

BTW, I profit to signal this one that is good for a laugh:
Hedge-Fund Manager Paul Singer ‘Shocked’ by Bitcoin Popularity

Instead, Mr. Singer encouraged investors to consider gold, which he wrote was “currently available at a good price.” As The Wall Street Journal reported earlier this month, some hedge fund investors have been taking advantage of gold’s largest annual decline in 32 years to increase their bullish gold wagers.

“Gold is out of fashion, but we think the explanation for why it has been drifting down is not compelling. The economy seems stuck in the doldrums, but most so-called ‘experts’ have been changing their minds almost weekly about when they think the economy will finally begin a long-term acceleration to the upside,” Mr. Singer wrote in the letter.

One of the best reads on this: http://m.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-real-housewives-of-wall-street-look-whos-cashing-in-on-the-bailout-20110411

I strongly urge anyone who hasnt read it to please read.

sidhujag

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1005

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on January 31, 2014, 06:56:40 PM

Quote from: rocks on January 31, 2014, 06:44:40 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

We are in a currency war and China has us by the balls. The Fed might be taking orders from China and not really giving a fuck about the domestic situation.

China wants the USA to have a strong dollar.

Everyone wants the USA to have a strong dollar to enable exports, not just China. But I completely disagree that China has us by the balls, if at the same time they want a strong dollar.

The US has already exported manufacturing and borrowed to the hilt, so there is only one direction for the US dollar and that is down. What we are seeing now are competitive devaluations by every central bank around the world. Japan is printing like crazy, China has tons and tons of debt that will have to be bailed out, and now the US gov has decided there has been enough mercantilism by China and they will print like never before to stop it.

All currencies are on a downward path now, and central banks are fighting to keep up with the others. This is a first for humanity and will not end pretty.

Every nation wants to devalue their currency, to soften their self-inflicted economic blows.

Only the Bitcoin supra-national currency can handle the kind of deflation that is needed by the capital markets to begin functioning healthily again ....

I think when the BRICS signed up for plaza accord they didnt know what that the US had them
by the balls in 1986 right there.

Let your currency appreciate against usd? Sure! strongest currency wins! like having gold! Now cycle is over and new accord will be written about probably weakening BriCs and appreciating usd long term...

Hiwever we are on the path to war.. first step is always blaming and currency war before the real one starts... I think US has upper hand on world though and it sucks because theu are the biggest criminals.

Dusty

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Libertas a calumnia

Quote from: Dr Bloggood on February 01, 2014, 11:25:12 AM

I don't understand your question - do you mean "how can we trust the Fed is doing the right thing"?

No, certainly not, nobody sane would suggest that the Fed is doing the "right" thing, me first

I would like to understand how it's possible to _verify_ how much the Fed is lending and how, since the movement "audit the Fed" had not much luck..

BTW, I profit to signal this one that is good for a laugh:
Hedge-Fund Manager Paul Singer ‘Shocked’ by Bitcoin Popularity

Instead, Mr. Singer encouraged investors to consider gold, which he wrote was “currently available at a good price.” As The Wall Street Journal reported earlier this month, some hedge fund investors have been taking advantage of gold’s largest annual decline in 32 years to increase their bullish gold wagers.

“Gold is out of fashion, but we think the explanation for why it has been drifting down is not compelling. The economy seems stuck in the doldrums, but most so-called ‘experts’ have been changing their minds almost weekly about when they think the economy will finally begin a long-term acceleration to the upside,” Mr. Singer wrote in the letter.

Dr Bloggood

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Quote from: Dusty on February 01, 2014, 10:03:55 AM

Quote from: Dr Bloggood on January 31, 2014, 08:14:51 AM

So those imbeciles from the FED did in fact taper. Wow, I did not expect that!

Newbie question: how can we trust the Fed to issue each month 10, 75, 100 or 1000 billions since the Fed is not auditable?

I don't understand your question - do you mean "how can we trust the Fed is doing the right thing"?

There are probably very few people in this thread who trust the Fed...

Dusty

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Libertas a calumnia

Quote from: Dr Bloggood on January 31, 2014, 08:14:51 AM

So those imbeciles from the FED did in fact taper. Wow, I did not expect that!

Newbie question: how can we trust the Fed to issue each month 10, 75, 100 or 1000 billions since the Fed is not auditable?

Dr Bloggood

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Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: Pruden on January 31, 2014, 05:17:10 PM

Quote from: Dr Bloggood on January 31, 2014, 09:21:14 AM

Quote from: molecular on January 31, 2014, 08:58:49 AM

Quote from: Dr Bloggood on January 31, 2014, 08:14:51 AM

So those imbeciles from the FED did in fact taper. Wow, I did not expect that!

Bernankes term ends. Probably they'll wait until shit starts to fall apart and then that new chick will come out saying: "See, we have to to save the world!"

Exactly!

Look out for QE to be raised in 2014 for sure!

Also, it seems extra dumb to me to do this exactly "in between" two terms of two Chairmen. Adds extra uncertainty for the markets - and for poor Yellen.

I always thought the FED was a bit evil, but maybe it's just pure stupidity and nothing else, what do you think?

QE is not raising ever again. This is a deflation to strengthen the dollar, just like Volcker did in 1980, and of course it will throw the emerging markets into turmoil, it's the logical effect.

Sorry, doomsayers, but reading this subforum you should know what happens when most agree on something and can't even imagine being wrong.

Nobody outside this forum agrees on QE being raised. We are just a tiny community of against-the-grain thinkers here.

"QE raised in 2014" is an extremely bold call in the real world. Let's wait and see who is right.

Dr Bloggood

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Quote from: BitcoinAshley on January 31, 2014, 12:52:47 PM

Quote from: rocks on January 31, 2014, 12:37:58 PM

Quote from: Dr Bloggood on January 31, 2014, 08:14:51 AM

So those imbeciles from the FED did in fact taper. Wow, I did not expect that!

Now we will see if the markets fall apart at the seams - looks like they are starting to, with emerging market currencies and stock markets falling.

This is how the FED / bankers maintain political control over the US.

The next US presidential election is up in 2.5 years. By taking the gas off the money printing petal today, we are garenteed to have an other financial crisis in 2 years. The blame will go to Obama and the democrats, and the bankers can put new R puppets in charge for awhile.

This is exactly what happened in 2008. The FED printed like crazy up until 2005 / 2006 when they stopped M2 money growth. Then in 2008 everything when to shit, and they could put a new party in control.

How people don't see this is beyond me.

How do they know the next financial crisis will wait 2 years to happen? Things are even more precarious now than they were in 05/06...

I have a feeling too it isn't gonna take two more years.

Let's wait and see.

tabnloz

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Quote from: Dragonkiller on January 31, 2014, 06:39:01 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Dragonkiller on January 31, 2014, 06:05:59 PM

Quote from: Pruden on January 31, 2014, 05:17:10 PM

Quote from: Dr Bloggood on January 31, 2014, 09:21:14 AM

Quote from: molecular on January 31, 2014, 08:58:49 AM

Quote from: Dr Bloggood on January 31, 2014, 08:14:51 AM

So those imbeciles from the FED did in fact taper. Wow, I did not expect that!

Bernankes term ends. Probably they'll wait until shit starts to fall apart and then that new chick will come out saying: "See, we have to to save the world!"

Exactly!

Look out for QE to be raised in 2014 for sure!

Also, it seems extra dumb to me to do this exactly "in between" two terms of two Chairmen. Adds extra uncertainty for the markets - and for poor Yellen.

I always thought the FED was a bit evil, but maybe it's just pure stupidity and nothing else, what do you think?

QE is not raising ever again. This is a deflation to strengthen the dollar, just like Volcker did in 1980, and of course it will throw the emerging markets into turmoil, it's the logical effect.

Sorry, doomsayers, but reading this subforum you should know what happens when most agree on something and can't even imagine being wrong.

deflation is the last thing the fed wants

you really think they're going to let the stock market and real estate prices collapse? they've reduce QE by 20bn and look at what's happened in the stock market already

We are in a currency war and China has us by the balls. The Fed might be taking orders from China and not really giving a fuck about the domestic situation.

China wants the USA to have a strong dollar.

it's definitely possible. i don't think it's very likely, but possible.

if it happens, i think btc will still grow because it's a growing technology. but definitely not as fast as it would if we get QE infinity.

AFAIK, the yuan is pegged to the $US so it will maintain a lower value. The EUR is 'kept' above the US /Yuan, so there is a little pendulum effect happening. Emerging markets out there are forced to devalue to stay competitive, (eg YEN, WON.). And they get screwed by resultant imported inflation.

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1178. (Read 2032266 times)