Author

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1216. (Read 2032266 times)

donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
November 27, 2013, 03:33:55 PM
both, lol, just looking at the silver chart here, if you had asked me a year ago if we would have ever seen 19 again I would have laughed in your face...now I'm holding out for 17

It's tempting to make a connection between bitcoin boom and metal bust, but the market sizes are too different. The $ flowing into XBT is negligible compared to the $ exiting the metals, right? I think it's plain old "manipulation" of gold & silver?
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 27, 2013, 03:33:51 PM
both, lol, just looking at the silver chart here, if you had asked me a year ago if we would have ever seen 19 again I would have laughed in your face...now I'm holding out for 17

you're welcome.
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 4738
diamond-handed zealot
November 27, 2013, 03:30:22 PM
both, lol, just looking at the silver chart here, if you had asked me a year ago if we would have ever seen 19 again I would have laughed in your face...now I'm holding out for 17
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 27, 2013, 03:22:43 PM
brutal

me or the reality of the situation?
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 4738
diamond-handed zealot
November 27, 2013, 03:18:55 PM
brutal
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 27, 2013, 03:15:49 PM
Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 27, 2013, 01:12:43 PM
pure and utter misery:

legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1000
Want privacy? Use Monero!
November 27, 2013, 12:09:18 PM

Cheesy

too bad for rule §2... You can not guess "today" or "tomorrow"  Cheesy
But i must admit, it is very possible!
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1000
Want privacy? Use Monero!
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
November 27, 2013, 11:31:37 AM
Since we have quite a few ex-PM bugs here, can you guys please make an estimation of the percentage of gold/silver used as currency to those used for other purposes?

Store of value of gold must be >99% I would say. Silver is different.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
November 27, 2013, 11:27:59 AM
Since we have quite a few ex-PM bugs here, can you guys please make an estimation of the percentage of gold/silver used as currency to those used for other purposes?
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1010
November 27, 2013, 11:11:33 AM
the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, nasdaq=3055, Bitcoin=5.4):
Bitcoin is 1030.00 (5792.00 btcChina in USD).  Gold is 1269.00.  Nasdaq is 3983.00
Bitcoin: 18974.07% (107159.26%)
Gold:    -24.91%
Nasdaq:  30.38%
Gold Diff:  25302% advantage Bitcoin
Nasdaq Diff:  14530% advantage Bitcoin
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 27, 2013, 10:19:27 AM
Gold, here we come.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
November 27, 2013, 08:18:59 AM
There used to be a 'pensionado' structures. It used to be bring something like $300,000.- and hire somebody for cleaning etc. and you pay no vermogensbelasting. There is also something about having to live their half of the year. Still a big tax haven, lot of 2m² offices with a phone and fax.

Not sure what the current rules are. I am no tax expert but have spent some time there. Deffinitely worth looking into if you push serious money around.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
November 27, 2013, 08:06:18 AM

i dont trust the govt.


Me neither. Before Bitcoin I had no way of acting on that however and I had no choice. Now I'm pretty well hedged with my Bitcoin holdings.

Then again, pretty soon I'm going to have to report my assets to the IRS. Paying tax isn't nice but okay. The worst part is that they know what I have. What if they pull on me what the US pulled on Gold owners in 1933?

Maybe just cash out a small portion and tell them it's all you have?

I'm not planning to cash out all (I have to report market value).

Reporting less than I have would be tax evasion. Don't you think that's something I'll come to regret?


I am not a tax lawyer, but if I were you, I would report everything I would ever consider to sell and thus move into the fiat money system, but claim to have lost the keys to the rest, assuming the taxmen are not silly enough to think that charging me something roughly equivalent to the market fiat value of those bitcoins would make sense.

im not a tax lawyer either. However (in the UK) if i haven't "cashed out" BTC then there is no capital gain to be taxed. Unless I am hugely mistaken!



Not all countries use the same wealth tax structure. The Dutch law requires you to report all your assets on January 1st of each year and pay 1.2% (30% tax on a 4% hypothetical yield) on it. If you own a house this is excluded (for fucked up unfair reasons). You are allowed to subtract foreign paid other forms of wealth tax (such as foreign dividend-tax).

So exchanging Bitcoins for fiat or not is a non-issue. If my wealth goes up sufficiently and the Dutch system becomes too much of a hassle, Germany is close by Wink (I dislike the language though)

Move to Curacao, really nice tax structures if you bring enough money and great weather.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
November 27, 2013, 07:56:06 AM

i dont trust the govt.


Me neither. Before Bitcoin I had no way of acting on that however and I had no choice. Now I'm pretty well hedged with my Bitcoin holdings.

Then again, pretty soon I'm going to have to report my assets to the IRS. Paying tax isn't nice but okay. The worst part is that they know what I have. What if they pull on me what the US pulled on Gold owners in 1933?

Maybe just cash out a small portion and tell them it's all you have?

I'm not planning to cash out all (I have to report market value).

Reporting less than I have would be tax evasion. Don't you think that's something I'll come to regret?


I am not a tax lawyer, but if I were you, I would report everything I would ever consider to sell and thus move into the fiat money system, but claim to have lost the keys to the rest, assuming the taxmen are not silly enough to think that charging me something roughly equivalent to the market fiat value of those bitcoins would make sense.

im not a tax lawyer either. However (in the UK) if i haven't "cashed out" BTC then there is no capital gain to be taxed. Unless I am hugely mistaken!



Not all countries use the same wealth tax structure. The Dutch law requires you to report all your assets on January 1st of each year and pay 1.2% (30% tax on a 4% hypothetical yield) on it. If you own a house this is excluded (for fucked up unfair reasons). You are allowed to subtract foreign paid other forms of wealth tax (such as foreign dividend-tax).

So exchanging Bitcoins for fiat or not is a non-issue. If my wealth goes up sufficiently and the Dutch system becomes too much of a hassle, Germany is close by Wink (I dislike the language though)

Oops, so you live in Europe?  Apologize for assming you are an American, otherwise I see no reason why you brought up executive order 6102.

The Dutch system, if true, is completely nuts should I say. There is no guarantee on the outcome of an investment, all of your hypothetical values could possibly be wiped out overnight, even for no reason other than you selling your assets to pay the tax, you can't just tax people like that.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
November 27, 2013, 07:51:12 AM

i dont trust the govt.


Me neither. Before Bitcoin I had no way of acting on that however and I had no choice. Now I'm pretty well hedged with my Bitcoin holdings.

Then again, pretty soon I'm going to have to report my assets to the IRS. Paying tax isn't nice but okay. The worst part is that they know what I have. What if they pull on me what the US pulled on Gold owners in 1933?

Maybe just cash out a small portion and tell them it's all you have?

I'm not planning to cash out all (I have to report market value).

Reporting less than I have would be tax evasion. Don't you think that's something I'll come to regret?


I am not a tax lawyer, but if I were you, I would report everything I would ever consider to sell and thus move into the fiat money system, but claim to have lost the keys to the rest, assuming the taxmen are not silly enough to think that charging me something roughly equivalent to the market fiat value of those bitcoins would make sense.

im not a tax lawyer either. However (in the UK) if i haven't "cashed out" BTC then there is no capital gain to be taxed. Unless I am hugely mistaken!



Most assets are liable to Capital Gains Tax when you sell or dispose of them.


He is not worried about taxation on his unsold coins, he is worried that IRS may either hold him liable for underreporting his bitcoin holding or acquire the knowledge of the size of his holding, should he chooses to be honest with them, in which case the danger of being forced to turn over his entire holding cannot be ruled out in a 1933-ish "executive order 6102" scenario.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1087
November 27, 2013, 06:37:31 AM

i dont trust the govt.


Me neither. Before Bitcoin I had no way of acting on that however and I had no choice. Now I'm pretty well hedged with my Bitcoin holdings.

Then again, pretty soon I'm going to have to report my assets to the IRS. Paying tax isn't nice but okay. The worst part is that they know what I have. What if they pull on me what the US pulled on Gold owners in 1933?

Maybe just cash out a small portion and tell them it's all you have?

I'm not planning to cash out all (I have to report market value).

Reporting less than I have would be tax evasion. Don't you think that's something I'll come to regret?


I am not a tax lawyer, but if I were you, I would report everything I would ever consider to sell and thus move into the fiat money system, but claim to have lost the keys to the rest, assuming the taxmen are not silly enough to think that charging me something roughly equivalent to the market fiat value of those bitcoins would make sense.

im not a tax lawyer either. However (in the UK) if i haven't "cashed out" BTC then there is no capital gain to be taxed. Unless I am hugely mistaken!



Most assets are liable to Capital Gains Tax when you sell or dispose of them.
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
November 27, 2013, 05:49:26 AM
Don't think alt-coins, think alt-ledgers. Then it becomes obvious why altcoins aren't to be feared and there is no significant inflation. There are purposes for alternative ledgers, but they are fairly limited, and you only need one or two for most conceivable uses. The only ones that survive will be those that enhance Bitcoin in some way, such as by providing better mixing for bitcoins or helping with arbitrage.

Bitcoin is the company that makes the holodecks, and Litecoin is the company that manages the jizzmoppers. Jizzmopping is a valuable service, but its value is limited and always subservient to holodeck creation. So stock in either one should do well in percentage terms over the long term, unless of course the jizzmopper management firm is replaced by a better one.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
November 27, 2013, 05:03:29 AM
Wasn't the same argument made when litecoin came out.  I don't think anyone is going to launch an exact copy.

You pretty much said it yourself(except that we have several exact clones already). each coin has its unique features, and is thus uniquely useful in someways, unlike fiats, the success of one doesn't exclude the success of another.

Quote
  All will or currently have variations on the bitcoin idea.  And we haven't even had a single major corp or government try to do a coin of their own.  What happens if Google or Facebook does a coin.  They've experimented with their own sort of money before but it didn't take off possibly because people inherently saw it as easily manipulated but under a guise of a crypto how fast do you think googlecoin would spread?

Governments will either do it half-heartedly to prop the fiat scam further(which will fool no one and unlikely to be taken seriously), or if they abandon fiats for cryptos, then it's already "mission accomplished" for us.

About corporations, it has to benefit them in some ways to do so, if they release an open source coin which is decentralized and they have no control, it's entirely possible Bitcoin will incorporate its best attributes and evolve, if they want to take the burden of running and supporting it....well, they are looking for troubles to be honest.
Jump to: