Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1331.

sunnankar

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Quote from: cypherdoc on March 27, 2013, 12:01:57 PM

the problem with using that metric is that it has been going UP for the last year and a half which hasn't been giving us any meaningful information.

better to use Dow:Bitcoin which is fast evaporating.

The depth of Bitcoin's capital pool is not even comparable currently although this is rapidly changing; about $1b to $9.6T.

The metric is still useful even if there are normal market undulations. The general trend, The Great Credit Contraction, is still very much in place and being accelerated by Bitcoin.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: sunnankar on March 27, 2013, 11:47:53 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 27, 2013, 07:08:14 AM

Central banks worldwide have been forcing printed money up the pyramid from the green currency illusion level into stocks as an attempted policy tool to keep their corruption game afloat.

Which shows up in the DOW:gold ratio as the green currency illusion layer evaporates.

the problem with using that metric is that it has been going UP for the last year and a half which hasn't been giving us any meaningful information.

better to use Dow:Bitcoin which is fast evaporating.

sunnankar

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Quote from: cypherdoc on March 27, 2013, 07:08:14 AM

Central banks worldwide have been forcing printed money up the pyramid from the green currency illusion level into stocks as an attempted policy tool to keep their corruption game afloat.

Which shows up in the DOW:gold ratio as the green currency illusion layer evaporates.

oakpacific

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Quote from: thezerg on March 27, 2013, 10:11:26 AM

Quote from: oakpacific on March 27, 2013, 08:22:40 AM

Quote from: thezerg on March 27, 2013, 08:03:43 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 27, 2013, 12:02:55 AM

Quote from: dree12 on March 26, 2013, 09:56:39 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 26, 2013, 09:19:39 PM

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, Bitcoin=5.4):

Bitcoin: +1400%

Gold: -6%

GPL: -36% silverbox long

Diff: +1406% advantage Bitcoin and Growing

This isn't the right way to calculate this. The proper way is to see how many ounces of gold x bitcoins can buy, where x is the number of bitcoins an ounce of gold could have bought. To make the numbers more manageable I will use a gram of gold:

March 13, 2012: 1 GAU could buy 54.33 USD or 10.062 XBT.
March 26, 2013: 10.062 XBT could buy 809.99 USD or 15.768 GAU.

Therefore there was a profit of 1476.8%, far higher than your estimate of 1406%.

all i'm doing is comparing their individual appreciation rates against themselves and then each other since 3/13/12:

1. gold: 1690 on 3/13/12 vs. today 1598 or 1598/1690=6% loss.
2. Bitcoin: 5.4 on 3/13/12 vs. today 81 or 81/5.4=1400% gain.

Sure we understand your method. I haven't spent the 5min to work out whether it is mathematically valid or not because I don't think that's what you really want. I think you really want to ask yourself "How much better off am I since I moved from gold to bitcoin." The script I posted gets you that number because it takes the ratio of the amount of $ you would have today if you had invested in bitcoin vs gold.

And the answer today (using 87.70 and 1598.70) is 1716%

By the way, cypherdoc a few days ago there was a discussion as to whether this thread helped any newbies and I would like to tell you that it helped me tremendously. In early 2012 these forums were full of kids, scammers and basically ppl who considered bitcoin to be a game where normal morality and laws don't apply. Your posts gave me hope that the potential of this currency could actually be realized and also affirmed my own belief that gold was fully saturated.

To me he is just the opposite of my trader stereotype(that would be S3052), as he is so fanatic and full of love for bitcoin, but when it comes to the price I fully concede defeat, I have never expected it to be near $100 this early, something I only considered possible about a year later.

I wasn't referring to his tone but to his content.

Sorry, I was kind of doing a small talk.

WinVery.com

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The fiat junk is as limitless as it is valueless.

thezerg

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Quote from: oakpacific on March 27, 2013, 08:22:40 AM

Quote from: thezerg on March 27, 2013, 08:03:43 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 27, 2013, 12:02:55 AM

Quote from: dree12 on March 26, 2013, 09:56:39 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 26, 2013, 09:19:39 PM

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, Bitcoin=5.4):

Bitcoin: +1400%

Gold: -6%

GPL: -36% silverbox long

Diff: +1406% advantage Bitcoin and Growing

This isn't the right way to calculate this. The proper way is to see how many ounces of gold x bitcoins can buy, where x is the number of bitcoins an ounce of gold could have bought. To make the numbers more manageable I will use a gram of gold:

March 13, 2012: 1 GAU could buy 54.33 USD or 10.062 XBT.
March 26, 2013: 10.062 XBT could buy 809.99 USD or 15.768 GAU.

Therefore there was a profit of 1476.8%, far higher than your estimate of 1406%.

all i'm doing is comparing their individual appreciation rates against themselves and then each other since 3/13/12:

1. gold: 1690 on 3/13/12 vs. today 1598 or 1598/1690=6% loss.
2. Bitcoin: 5.4 on 3/13/12 vs. today 81 or 81/5.4=1400% gain.

Sure we understand your method. I haven't spent the 5min to work out whether it is mathematically valid or not because I don't think that's what you really want. I think you really want to ask yourself "How much better off am I since I moved from gold to bitcoin." The script I posted gets you that number because it takes the ratio of the amount of $ you would have today if you had invested in bitcoin vs gold.

And the answer today (using 87.70 and 1598.70) is 1716%

By the way, cypherdoc a few days ago there was a discussion as to whether this thread helped any newbies and I would like to tell you that it helped me tremendously. In early 2012 these forums were full of kids, scammers and basically ppl who considered bitcoin to be a game where normal morality and laws don't apply. Your posts gave me hope that the potential of this currency could actually be realized and also affirmed my own belief that gold was fully saturated.

To me he is just the opposite of my trader stereotype(that would be S3052), as he is so fanatic and full of love for bitcoin, but when it comes to the price I fully concede defeat, I have never expected it to be near $100 this early, something I only considered possible about a year later.

I wasn't referring to his tone but to his content.

oakpacific

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Quote from: thezerg on March 27, 2013, 08:03:43 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 27, 2013, 12:02:55 AM

Quote from: dree12 on March 26, 2013, 09:56:39 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 26, 2013, 09:19:39 PM

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, Bitcoin=5.4):

Bitcoin: +1400%

Gold: -6%

GPL: -36% silverbox long

Diff: +1406% advantage Bitcoin and Growing

This isn't the right way to calculate this. The proper way is to see how many ounces of gold x bitcoins can buy, where x is the number of bitcoins an ounce of gold could have bought. To make the numbers more manageable I will use a gram of gold:

March 13, 2012: 1 GAU could buy 54.33 USD or 10.062 XBT.
March 26, 2013: 10.062 XBT could buy 809.99 USD or 15.768 GAU.

Therefore there was a profit of 1476.8%, far higher than your estimate of 1406%.

all i'm doing is comparing their individual appreciation rates against themselves and then each other since 3/13/12:

1. gold: 1690 on 3/13/12 vs. today 1598 or 1598/1690=6% loss.
2. Bitcoin: 5.4 on 3/13/12 vs. today 81 or 81/5.4=1400% gain.

Sure we understand your method. I haven't spent the 5min to work out whether it is mathematically valid or not because I don't think that's what you really want. I think you really want to ask yourself "How much better off am I since I moved from gold to bitcoin." The script I posted gets you that number because it takes the ratio of the amount of $ you would have today if you had invested in bitcoin vs gold.

And the answer today (using 87.70 and 1598.70) is 1716%

By the way, cypherdoc a few days ago there was a discussion as to whether this thread helped any newbies and I would like to tell you that it helped me tremendously. In early 2012 these forums were full of kids, scammers and basically ppl who considered bitcoin to be a game where normal morality and laws don't apply. Your posts gave me hope that the potential of this currency could actually be realized and also affirmed my own belief that gold was fully saturated.

To me he is just the opposite of my trader stereotype(that would be S3052), as he is so fanatic and full of love for bitcoin, but when it comes to the price I fully concede defeat, I have never expected it to be near $100 this early, something I only considered possible about a year later.

thezerg

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Quote from: cypherdoc on March 27, 2013, 12:02:55 AM

Quote from: dree12 on March 26, 2013, 09:56:39 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 26, 2013, 09:19:39 PM

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, Bitcoin=5.4):

Bitcoin: +1400%

Gold: -6%

GPL: -36% silverbox long

Diff: +1406% advantage Bitcoin and Growing

This isn't the right way to calculate this. The proper way is to see how many ounces of gold x bitcoins can buy, where x is the number of bitcoins an ounce of gold could have bought. To make the numbers more manageable I will use a gram of gold:

March 13, 2012: 1 GAU could buy 54.33 USD or 10.062 XBT.
March 26, 2013: 10.062 XBT could buy 809.99 USD or 15.768 GAU.

Therefore there was a profit of 1476.8%, far higher than your estimate of 1406%.

all i'm doing is comparing their individual appreciation rates against themselves and then each other since 3/13/12:

1. gold: 1690 on 3/13/12 vs. today 1598 or 1598/1690=6% loss.
2. Bitcoin: 5.4 on 3/13/12 vs. today 81 or 81/5.4=1400% gain.

Sure we understand your method. I haven't spent the 5min to work out whether it is mathematically valid or not because I don't think that's what you really want. I think you really want to ask yourself "How much better off am I since I moved from gold to bitcoin." The script I posted gets you that number because it takes the ratio of the amount of $ you would have today if you had invested in bitcoin vs gold.

And the answer today (using 87.70 and 1598.70) is 1716%

By the way, cypherdoc a few days ago there was a discussion as to whether this thread helped any newbies and I would like to tell you that it helped me tremendously. In early 2012 these forums were full of kids, scammers and basically ppl who considered bitcoin to be a game where normal morality and laws don't apply. Your posts gave me hope that the potential of this currency could actually be realized and also affirmed my own belief that gold was fully saturated.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: oakpacific on March 27, 2013, 06:43:27 AM

Quote from: sunnankar on March 22, 2013, 02:22:08 AM

Quote from: oakpacific on March 22, 2013, 01:36:00 AM

so I absolutely sucked at trading and being lucky, but I am now vastly in black. What does that tell us? Every sucker can get his fair share of opportunity, if you let it slipped by you can only blame yourself.

Being invested the right way in the right long-term secular trend will hide a multitude of trading errors.

Bitcoin has been the trade of the decade and very well could become the trade of the century or even of all time in the history of humanity. Remember, Bitcoin is a sterile asset so any rise in the Bitcoin price merely represents a transfer of wealth from some other assets to the holders of Bitcoin.

As the Great Credit Contraction continues capital will seek safe and liquid assets by burrowing down the liquidity pyramid.

So am I right in saying that the Dow's new high is caused by capitals from the highest two levels of this inverted pyramid flowing into U.S stocks?

No.

Central banks worldwide have been forcing printed money up the pyramid from the green currency illusion level into stocks as an attempted policy tool to keep their corruption game afloat.

oakpacific

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Quote from: sunnankar on March 22, 2013, 02:22:08 AM

Quote from: oakpacific on March 22, 2013, 01:36:00 AM

so I absolutely sucked at trading and being lucky, but I am now vastly in black. What does that tell us? Every sucker can get his fair share of opportunity, if you let it slipped by you can only blame yourself.

Being invested the right way in the right long-term secular trend will hide a multitude of trading errors.

Bitcoin has been the trade of the decade and very well could become the trade of the century or even of all time in the history of humanity. Remember, Bitcoin is a sterile asset so any rise in the Bitcoin price merely represents a transfer of wealth from some other assets to the holders of Bitcoin.

As the Great Credit Contraction continues capital will seek safe and liquid assets by burrowing down the liquidity pyramid.

So am I right in saying that the Dow's new high is caused by capitals from the highest two levels of this inverted pyramid flowing into U.S stocks?

cypherdoc

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And probably more importantly, I hear italy's bond auction didn't go so well. I wonder why?

Dow futures don't seem to like it.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: Vladimir on March 27, 2013, 06:11:36 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 27, 2013, 06:04:42 AM

Gold down. Bitcoin UP.

Surprise, surprise!

I just feel this need to remind everybody, especially the ____ Bugs. Wink

Vladimir

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-

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 27, 2013, 06:04:42 AM

Gold down. Bitcoin UP.

Surprise, surprise!

cypherdoc

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Gold down. Bitcoin UP.

tvbcof

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Quote from: cypherdoc on March 27, 2013, 12:02:55 AM

Quote from: dree12 on March 26, 2013, 09:56:39 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 26, 2013, 09:19:39 PM

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, Bitcoin=5.4):

Bitcoin: +1400%

Gold: -6%

GPL: -36% silverbox long

Diff: +1406% advantage Bitcoin and Growing

This isn't the right way to calculate this. The proper way is to see how many ounces of gold x bitcoins can buy, where x is the number of bitcoins an ounce of gold could have bought. To make the numbers more manageable I will use a gram of gold:

March 13, 2012: 1 GAU could buy 54.33 USD or 10.062 XBT.
March 26, 2013: 10.062 XBT could buy 809.99 USD or 15.768 GAU.

Therefore there was a profit of 1476.8%, far higher than your estimate of 1406%.

all i'm doing is comparing their individual appreciation rates against themselves and then each other since 3/13/12:

1. gold: 1690 on 3/13/12 vs. today 1598 or 1598/1690=6% loss.
2. Bitcoin: 5.4 on 3/13/12 vs. today 81 or 81/5.4=1400% gain.

Ya, well, ratios are generally not suitable for addition or subtraction.

Off the top of my head, I would say that a meaningful number could be had by taking the ratio of the ratio of both. IOW something like: (auO/auN)/(btcO/btcN). A quick check yields 1586% by my computations (after 'sudo apt-get install grpn'). A cross-check assuming that gold is flat yields 1500% which is the same as BTC alone (81/5.4), and that makes intuitive sense to me.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: dree12 on March 26, 2013, 09:56:39 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 26, 2013, 09:19:39 PM

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, Bitcoin=5.4):

Bitcoin: +1400%

Gold: -6%

GPL: -36% silverbox long

Diff: +1406% advantage Bitcoin and Growing

This isn't the right way to calculate this. The proper way is to see how many ounces of gold x bitcoins can buy, where x is the number of bitcoins an ounce of gold could have bought. To make the numbers more manageable I will use a gram of gold:

March 13, 2012: 1 GAU could buy 54.33 USD or 10.062 XBT.
March 26, 2013: 10.062 XBT could buy 809.99 USD or 15.768 GAU.

Therefore there was a profit of 1476.8%, far higher than your estimate of 1406%.

all i'm doing is comparing their individual appreciation rates against themselves and then each other since 3/13/12:

1. gold: 1690 on 3/13/12 vs. today 1598 or 1598/1690=6% loss.
2. Bitcoin: 5.4 on 3/13/12 vs. today 81 or 81/5.4=1400% gain.

dave111223

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thezerg

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Quote from: dree12 on March 26, 2013, 09:56:39 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 26, 2013, 09:19:39 PM

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, Bitcoin=5.4):

Bitcoin: +1400%

Gold: -6%

GPL: -36% silverbox long

Diff: +1406% advantage Bitcoin and Growing

This isn't the right way to calculate this. The proper way is to see how many ounces of gold x bitcoins can buy, where x is the number of bitcoins an ounce of gold could have bought. To make the numbers more manageable I will use a gram of gold:

March 13, 2012: 1 GAU could buy 54.33 USD or 10.062 XBT.
March 26, 2013: 10.062 XBT could buy 809.99 USD or 15.768 GAU.

Therefore there was a profit of 1476.8%, far higher than your estimate of 1406%.

I think this method is mathematically equivalent to mine posted just above... but can't be sure w/o your formula

dree12

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Quote from: cypherdoc on March 26, 2013, 09:19:39 PM

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, Bitcoin=5.4):

Bitcoin: +1400%

Gold: -6%

GPL: -36% silverbox long

Diff: +1406% advantage Bitcoin and Growing

This isn't the right way to calculate this. The proper way is to see how many ounces of gold x bitcoins can buy, where x is the number of bitcoins an ounce of gold could have bought. To make the numbers more manageable I will use a gram of gold:

March 13, 2012: 1 GAU could buy 54.33 USD or 10.062 XBT.
March 26, 2013: 10.062 XBT could buy 809.99 USD or 15.768 GAU.

Therefore there was a profit of 1476.8%, far higher than your estimate of 1406%.

thezerg

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Merit: 1010

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 26, 2013, 09:19:39 PM

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, Bitcoin=5.4):

Bitcoin: +1400%

Gold: -6%

GPL: -36% silverbox long

Diff: +1406% advantage Bitcoin and Growing

What prices did you use? I didn't spend any time reasoning out your algorithm, but the algorithm below imagines you spent N on bitcoin and gold at the prices stated and then figures out the ratio between the worth of the 2 investments today. Of course, "N" just falls out of the equation so I use "1"... Even if you don't know python, you it should be possible to follow it:

def goldCollapsingBitcoinUP(PriceBitcoinToday,PriceGoldToday,N=1):
goldAmt = N/1690.0
goldValue = goldAmt*PriceGoldToday
bitcoinValue = (N/5.4)*PriceBitcoinToday
ratio = bitcoinValue / goldValue
return ratio*100 # return percentage

cypherdoc, if you actually did jump into linux you can write "python" on the command line, then cut-paste this into the window.

Anyway, plugging in 81.75 and 1598.50 yields....

Diff: +1600%

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1331. (Read 2032266 times)