Pages:
Author

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 19. (Read 2032247 times)

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 16, 2015, 06:10:38 PM
Go on smoothie.  Go on evoorhees.  Fuck off to greener, censorship-free pastures where may you attempt to attack Bitcoin all you want.

Don't let me stop you.  You're free now...move into the light...   Cheesy

iCEBLOW throwing his weapons.  or, blowing his weapons.

or, in medical terms, engaging in "projectile vomiting".

You are also welcome to fuck to https://voat.co/v/bitcoinxt, where your XT junta will not be "suppressed" by moderators enforcing rules.

Why are you supporting theymos' "epitome of authoritarianism" and "censorship" by gracing his forum with your presence?

i think i need to change your resume from bombastic to ballistic.  the projectile vomiting part still applies however.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
August 16, 2015, 06:07:44 PM
It doesn't take much brains to figure out why the speed of increase of avg block has accelerated from days where Bitcoin had 10,000 users and how it projects to pickup even more speed as adoption and awareness grows.

"Supply creates its own demand"

This is false.  The growth rate of the average block size was fastest in early 2011.  

Well that sort of makes sense considering it started from barely anything but the point still stand.

Do you propose the growth rate of blocksize to decrease with time. I'm pretty convinced it won't until we start serving half of the transactions on earth (if we do insist on keeping them all on blockchain)

I propose it will grow somewhere between the HIGH and the MODERATE curves in this chart (that I feel I've posted ten times recently):



This would be a very good thing!
legendary
Activity: 1473
Merit: 1086
August 16, 2015, 06:05:19 PM
Go on smoothie.  Go on evoorhees.  Fuck off to greener, censorship-free pastures where may you attempt to attack Bitcoin all you want.

Don't let me stop you.  You're free now...move into the light...   Cheesy

iCEBLOW throwing his weapons.  or, blowing his weapons.

or, in medical terms, engaging in "projectile vomiting".

You are also welcome to fuck to https://voat.co/v/bitcoinxt, where your XT junta will not be "suppressed" by moderators enforcing rules.

Why are you supporting theymos' "epitome of authoritarianism" and "censorship" by gracing his forum with your presence?

What are you so afraid of, that you agree with all this censorship ?
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
August 16, 2015, 06:03:48 PM
Side chains are certainly altcoins.

Maybe in your universe.

Lol how are they not?

They are essentially watered down versions of Bitcoin lol with a separate block chain.

Sidechains are not altcoins, nor are they "watered down," nor are their block chain's "seperate."

Do you guys know what the phrase "TWO WAY PEG" means?   Cheesy

Yes, something that is impossible. Ask the SNB (down) or PBOC (up).


There is a world of difference between an economic peg (fiat) and a technical peg (sidechains)
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 16, 2015, 06:02:59 PM
"Supply creates its own demand"

you always say this as if it is a one way function leading to XT gloom.

i think the opposite is even more likely, "demand creates it's own supply".  i've talked about this before, as internet traffic demand from XT increases thru user fee based tx's, ISP providers could be thrilled to be able to monetize all the new traffic as they have long envisioned via the new internet economy.  growth of the online economy is something they have been preparing for years for.  all that fiber optic cable being laid across Africa as we speak could bring on billions of new internet users all of whom will have to pay some degree of connectivity fees.  same goes for Western economies.  i'd bet these ISP's love economic growth way more than oppressive gvt regulations choking that same growth.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
August 16, 2015, 06:02:56 PM
Sidechains are not altcoins, nor are they "watered down," nor are their block chain's "seperate."

Do you guys know what the phrase "TWO WAY PEG" means?   Cheesy

Yes, something that is impossible. Ask the SNB (down) or PBOC (up).


Fiat, LOL.

Do you know what the phrase "ATOMIC TRANSACTION" means?   Cheesy

(Keep acting stupid, I can do this all day.)

Keep acting smart.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
August 16, 2015, 06:01:45 PM
It doesn't take much brains to figure out why the speed of increase of avg block has accelerated from days where Bitcoin had 10,000 users and how it projects to pickup even more speed as adoption and awareness grows.

"Supply creates its own demand"

This is false.  The growth rate of the average block size was fastest in early 2011. 

Well that sort of makes sense considering it started from barely anything but the point still stand.

Do you propose the growth rate of blocksize to decrease with time. I'm pretty convinced it won't until we start serving half of the transactions on earth (if we do insist on keeping them all on blockchain)
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
August 16, 2015, 05:59:20 PM
Sidechains are not altcoins, nor are they "watered down," nor are their block chain's "seperate."

Do you guys know what the phrase "TWO WAY PEG" means?   Cheesy

Yes, something that is impossible. Ask the SNB (down) or PBOC (up).


Fiat, LOL.

Do you know what the phrase "ATOMIC TRANSACTION" means?   Cheesy

(Keep acting stupid, I can do this all day.)
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
August 16, 2015, 05:56:33 PM
Go on smoothie.  Go on evoorhees.  Fuck off to greener, censorship-free pastures where may you attempt to attack Bitcoin all you want.

Don't let me stop you.  You're free now...move into the light...   Cheesy

iCEBLOW throwing his weapons.  or, blowing his weapons.

or, in medical terms, engaging in "projectile vomiting".

You are also welcome to fuck to https://voat.co/v/bitcoinxt, where your XT junta will not be "suppressed" by moderators enforcing rules.

Why are you supporting theymos' "epitome of authoritarianism" and "censorship" by gracing his forum with your presence?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
August 16, 2015, 05:53:36 PM
Side chains are certainly altcoins.

Maybe in your universe.

Lol how are they not?

They are essentially watered down versions of Bitcoin lol with a separate block chain.

Sidechains are not altcoins, nor are they "watered down," nor are their block chain's "seperate."

Do you guys know what the phrase "TWO WAY PEG" means?   Cheesy

Yes, something that is impossible. Ask the SNB (down) or PBOC (up).
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
August 16, 2015, 05:50:17 PM
Side chains are certainly altcoins.

Maybe in your universe.

Lol how are they not?

They are essentially watered down versions of Bitcoin lol with a separate block chain.

Sidechains are not altcoins, nor are they "watered down," nor are their block chain's "seperate."

Do you guys know what the phrase "TWO WAY PEG" means?   Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
August 16, 2015, 05:48:30 PM
It doesn't take much brains to figure out why the speed of increase of avg block has accelerated from days where Bitcoin had 10,000 users and how it projects to pickup even more speed as adoption and awareness grows.

"Supply creates its own demand"

This is false.  The growth rate of the average block size was fastest in early 2011. 
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
August 16, 2015, 05:44:17 PM
I'm curious how this holds in a scenario where block propagation is constant because of inverted bloom filters?

If block solution propagation grows slower than log Q, where Q is the size of the block, then the fee market becomes unhealthy and miners are incentivized to produced arbitrarily large blocks.  I show in my paper that this is not physically possible due to the Shannon-Hartley Theorem.  

This discussion relates to my main point of contention with Greg Maxwell.  In email correspondence, he suggested that it would be possible to have infinite coding gain for block solutions announcement. (I.e., he suggested that block solutions can truly be communicated in an amount of time that does not depend, even asymptotically, on the amount of transactions included in the block.  He said this is possible if what went into a block was already agreed upon far ahead of time [so that zero information needed to be communicated when the block was solved]).  I think the onus is on him to rigorously show:

(a) Under what assumptions/requirements such a communication scheme is physically possible.

(b) That such a configuration is not equivalent to a single entity1 controlling >50% of the hash power.

(c) That the network moving into such a configuration is plausible.

Nevertheless, I've agreed with him to discuss this point of contention when I make the other corrections to my paper.  

1For example, if--in order to achieve such a configuration with infinite coding gain--miners can no longer choose how to structure their blocks according to their own volition, then I would classify those miners as slaves rather than as peers, and the network as already centralized.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
August 16, 2015, 05:43:50 PM
Nick Szabo on Twitter: https://twitter.com/NickSzabo4/status/633011973634961408

"A much more reasonable block size proposal, following historical growth rates in a "limiting nutrient" resource: https://t.co/RRapcLSm6j"

Also: https://twitter.com/NickSzabo4/status/633015499316551680

"A rapid block size increase is a huge security risk: a reckless act to be performing on a $4 billion system." -- Nick Szabo

Increasing the limit does not mean that blocks will be that size immediately. He doesnt really define the scales he is talking about.

Satoshi's 1mb limit was an order of magnitude greater than the average block size of the time. 5 years later we are only getting near to it. Yet there has been no talk of security risk up to this?

It doesn't take much brains to figure out why the speed of increase of avg block has accelerated from days where Bitcoin had 10,000 users and how it projects to pickup even more speed as adoption and awareness grows.

"Supply creates its own demand"
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
August 16, 2015, 05:42:56 PM
..and all pro XT and angry censorship postings are removed from the front of /r/bitcoin. Disgraceful.

again?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
August 16, 2015, 05:42:20 PM
I can understand that theymos is in a very difficult spot...

During the fall of the Berlin wall, there was a pivotal moment when the border guards finally recognised the futility of their duty, and allowed people through unchallenged.

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
August 16, 2015, 05:37:38 PM
XT is using the exact same chain/protocol as core aside from the future possibility of block size increase.

XT operates just like CORE as of right now.

You keep repeating that Big Lie, but it's simply not true.

XT is every patch Mike Hearn ever had refused by NACKs in Core.

Quote
Conspicuous by its absence from the README is that incoming clearnet connections will kick a Tor peer off.

So don't just trust the description of diffs.

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
August 16, 2015, 05:36:39 PM
Without a hard block cap, a pool could send millions of small transactions(spam - with a transaction fee too low for other pools) and mine it in their own block. Thus increasing the propagation time and having a small edge on their own mining for the next block. Just a thought, that came to my head a minute ago.

Could this really cause problems in that scenario ?

Publishing a large block has a cost to the miner.  I tried to illustrate this effect in Fig. 8:

*skip*

Even with a propagation impedance of 2 sec/MB (which I'm confident is faster than the present network average), it still costs 1,000 BTC to produce a single 1 GB spam block.  

Indeed, you get a small head start on the next block but it won't balance out the orphan cost.  Furthermore, other miners can SPV mine on your block header (while downloading and verifying the rest of the block) to take away this advantage.


Thank you Peter, it's always a great pleasure to read your posts.
But I just don't understand the cost of 1000 BTC for a 1 GB spam block. In my example a mining pool could create the spam on their own and include the transactions in their own block, thus mining their own transaction fees. This action should cost them almost nothing. (But when mining just on the block header works without any disadvantages, then this is anyway a non issue.)


It costs them 1000 BTC because, according to the laws of statistics, they would have to attempt it 40 times before one "stuck."  On average, a 1 GB block (at 2 sec/MB) will be orphaned 39 out of 40 times.  Does that make sense?

This is still true with SPV mining.  Say the other miners receive the header for my spam block slightly before they received a smaller block in full.  As soon as they receive the smaller block in full, they'll switch to mining on this one because there's a 100% chance that that block is valid while my spam block is risky because it could include an invalid TX.  

I'm curious how this holds in a scenario where block propagation is constant because of inverted bloom filters?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
August 16, 2015, 05:31:48 PM
Unbelievable. Did anyone in this environment ever destroy himself even faster than that Thermos?

Sorry, I've lost count.  Which has been declared destroyed/dooomed/dead more times, Thermos or Bitcoin?

If you don't like Thermos, why don't you fuck off his forum and sub, and go some place more welcoming of contentious/hostile/malicious/parasitic hard forks?

I hear https://voat.co/v/bitcoinxt is nice this time of year.  It's not crowded either!   Grin
legendary
Activity: 1473
Merit: 1086
August 16, 2015, 05:26:56 PM
It costs them 1000 BTC because, according to the laws of statistics, they would have to attempt it 40 times before one "stuck."  On average, a 1 GB block (at 2 sec/MB) will be orphaned 39 out of 40 times.  Does that make sense?

This is still true with SPV mining.  Say the other miners receive the header for my spam block slightly before they received a smaller block in full.  As soon as they receive the smaller block in full, they'll switch to mining on this one [/i]because there's a 100% chance that that block is valid[/i] while my spam block is risky because it could include an invalid TX.  

Thank you, that makes sense ! Smiley
Pages:
Jump to: