Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 216. (Read 2032248 times)

Don't get smug. Scroll down to where Jon favorites several of my counter argument tweets. He'll come around. He just hasn't been following the technical discussions.

One of the more amazing actions:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3aei7c/heres_what_the_canadian_senate_just_put_in_the/

https://twitter.com/jonmatonis/status/611844197331693568

the best part about being right about whats beyond the curve is watch others come to the same conclusion you did after being ejected from the initial conversations by your suppose peers.

Hey, if my competition wants to pound a square peg into a round hole with a sledgehammer why should I let that bother me?

Looks like about 20-25% of people understand Bitcoin as I do whether they are new arrivals or otherwise.  I really do see some utility in a fracture along this fault line and believe that it could be the best thing which could happen for the eco-system.  Especially if it is not a complete surprise.

Developments to leverage Bitcoin in the capacity where it makes sense are at this point mature enough that they won't be going away at least as a template form.  I'll look for timing of problems to coincide with a period when Bitcoin could otherwise be of real value to people.  Specifically when people most need and ex-mainstream means of wealth preservation.  That would be unfortunate but it is sometimes impractical to win every battle and those who are clued in will still be able to make some use of it.

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114530/bitcoin-wallet-software-providers-express-support-for-block-size-increase

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37y8wm/list_of_bitcoin_services_that_supportoppose/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3947ck/multiple_polls_results_regarding_bitcoin/

i love the song!!

+1.

Out of all the threads on this forum, I think this is the most resourceful for discussion on maxblocksize, blockstream, hard fork, and other arguments.

So thanks to contributers for posting comments on these issues.

Off topic, I'd like to point out that Bitcoin is actually at it's most vulnerable state for the next year. With Blockstream's Confidential Transactions and Elements, a hard fork, lots of internal controversy, and a block halving, now is the perfect time for opposition to do their damage to Bitcoin and how CT will anonymize transactions in the sidechains.

They are going to be plenty preoccupied trying to hold their top-down system together because I believe there will be an alternative system take hold that is competing with them entirely outside their sphere of control capabilities. They competed for control against geographical frontiers in the past, and now they will compete against technological frontiers, namely decentralization, open-source Inverse Commons, and anonymity.

Realize these frontiers are particularly threatening to them because their own top-ranking members parasite and divert flows to the frontiers secretly. In short, I think I will get a lot of private support from the TPTB for my new ecosystem, but in public they will fight me ("you don't shit where you eat").


In America the totalitarianism is political correctness (ideology and inflexibility) and in China it is political connections (pragmatism).

I expect the collapse from 2017 to 2020 to be a chaotic period of massive disruption (bank failures, technological unemployment accelerated by bankruptcy of old paradigms that were held up by debt, massive new job opportunities in virtual online work that most people are not qualified to do), where the young asians will excel because they are already accustomed to massive sacrifices and far away travel to obtain employment. Everybody in asia will be on the move (new training centers, moving to where internet connectivity is best, etc). Whereas, the boomers will hunker down and take drugs to escape from change. The West is stagnant and will collapse into a zombie State.

The Asian governments won't need to institute much totalitarianism because their debts are small and their populations are young and flexible. The main threats are coming from the NE Asians, i.e. the Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. But Japan is ready to have its final whirlwind default then bottom and leverage the rest of Asia going back up. S.Korea will take a hit, but they too can leverage the rest of Asia. China will exert totalitarianism externally with expansionism over the coming Asia Union. The main problem in Asia now is China's appetite for power. We will see Japan+USA attempting to hold China in check, but behind the scenes this is power sharing agreement to foist increased control over the subject Asians by this new Troika.

So all-in-all I see Asia adopting electronic currency and other NWO edicts, but being otherwise the most dynamic area. The financial capital of the world will shift from West to East.

Putin is starting to get it:

Putin’s Speech – Tax Free Corporates for 4 Years




The likely reason Asia was higher than Europe before the Black Death is because Europe collapsed having too a high a population for the available agricultural work, thus there was no incentive to innovate and wages were in deflation. Whereas Asia was growing rice which is very labor intensive thus wages were not in deflation. After the Black Death wiped out 60% of Europe's population, then labor was scarce and innovation increased and the Industrial Revolution overtook Asia. I learned this from Nick Szabo's blog.



The pandemic serves the purpose of creating a need for government to organize quarantines, etc.. It encourages world government level cooperation.

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What actually happened is that when F2Pool realized they had been mislead about the effects of the change, they promptly reverted it.

Because, unlike the spherical cow models the game theorists are always using, they value the long term value of their investment rather than the short term benefit of gaining a few extra pennies on each block.

Incentives do work after all.

RBF... Sweet!

The howls of rage by people who have been trying to pretend that Bitcoin is not a batch system and papering this fact over with insecure shitware, propaganda, and ignorance is hugely amusing.

The solution is simple, and looks like it should be available in a more robust form than I imagined sooner than I anticipate.  That is, use a sidecoin that is designed to support the use-case properly if they need real-time behavior.

I deleted my last post in this thread because after some reflection I thought there was a chance I was being unfair to Peter Todd and the post was unhelpfully inflammitory.

Then, not ten minutes later, he and his supporters confirm exactly what I said on the mailing list.

They want to intentionally break native Bitcoin transactions to punish anyone who doesn't adopt Proofchains.

Users are not to be allowed to make their own risk assessments and adopt Proofchains if and only if they think it's the best solution for their particular problem based on their own judgement - they need to be forced into a better solution because Peter Todd knows best for them.

what's laughable as hell is Adam accusing Mike of a financial conflict of interest in 20MB blocks.  now it's clear to me why he never got Bitcoin until mid 2013:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3aeow8/blockstream_has_a_very_serious_conflict_of/

Afaics, some hair-brained idea to attempt to discourage double-spends within a 0-confirmation interval (or n-confirmations of an orphaned chain).

The only way to deal with double-spends within this interval is to trust the reports from a majority of the P2P network and assume that is what will be in the winning chain.

All these other ideas will just be worse. Todd so far (in the few instances I've come across his logic) has not impressed me as being an astute designer and developer.

However, my assumptions could be wrong if there are other complex (and fragile!) rules being employed in the P2P network w.r.t. to transaction ordering. I do expect Bitcoin to become a fragile, broken spaghetti. This is what happens from design-by-kitchen-soup consensus.

Yay, I'm happy!  First-seen-safe RBF is fine by me

(Although I think child-pays-parent solves all the problems with "stuck transactions" in a more elegant way.)  

me neither.

that said I've collected a few resources in a "read-later" fashion, with the aim to eventually understand Todd's reasons, here's a partial list:

http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/32276657/
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg06992.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg07122.html
https://medium.com/@octskyward/replace-by-fee-43edd9a1dd6d


Fwiw f2pool representative just post in the aforementioned thread:


(*) FSS RBF =  first-seen-safe RBF

I've never understood Peter Todd's rationale for promoting replace-by-fee.  

The way Bitcoin was designed, if a node sees a second transaction that spends an output already spent by a previous transaction, it ignores the second transaction.  The result is that the second (and in most cases, fraudulent) transaction propagates to very few nodes and has little chance of being mined into a block.  If the entire network applies this policy homogeneously, double-spending zero-confirm transactions is very difficult, especially if merchants just wait a few second to monitor the propagation of the TX with a well-connected listening node.

What Peter Todd's "replace-by-fee" support does, is allows any unconfirmed transaction to be removed from a node's mempool if a conflicting transaction, received after the original transaction, pays a higher fee.  If all nodes in the network adopted this policy, it would make zero-confirm transactions trivially-easy to double spend.  

Is there some benefit to RBF that I'm missing?  This seems like a reckless policy.  

Hey I escaped from that culture (perhaps to something different only in superficial appearances?) in my 20s. I remember getting annoyed in my girl friend's apartment because she and her roommates where watching some sitcom that was treating us like we had an IQ of 90. After that, I think I rarely watched TV again, perhaps just only sporting events.

You will never change the fact that the center of the bell curve has the propensity to be sheep.

The only thing we can truly accomplish is to push the power to the ends of the social+technology network, so that the sheep can't cause centralized contagion.

If you succeed to accomplish a complete wipeout of technology (e.g. NSA power derives from your support of environmentalism) and resource dispersion (e.g. your religious battle against carbon), you will get instead a horrific outcome w.r.t. to the human species.

P.S. I edited my prior post.

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This means you can double-spend within a 0-confirmation against a recipient listening on the P2P network, just by sending another transaction with a higher transaction fee?

What is the motivation for such a change?

Mankind along with many other species is already nearly entirely eliminated by the society, which does not represent mankind. Society/collectivism is a cancerous, proliferous cartoon of mankind. It is a pandemic disease. My goal is the rebirth of mankind. The society/collectivism is something to be overcome.


Doctor doctor, what is wrong with me?
This supermarket life, is getting long
What is the heart life of a color TV?
What is the shelf life of a teenage queen?
Ooh Western Woman
Ooh Western Girl

News hound sniffs the air
When Jessica Hahn goes down
He latches onto that symbol of detachment
Attracted by the peeling way of feeling
The celebrity of the abused shell, the belle
Ooh Western Woman
Ooh Western Girl

The children on Melrose strut their stuff
Is absolute zero cold enough?
And out in the valley, warm and clean
The little ones sit by the TV screen

No thoughts to think
No tears to cry
All sucked dry
Down to the very last breath

Bartender what is wrong with me?
Why am I so out of breath?
The captain said 'Excuse me ma'am'
'This species has amused itself to death'

Amused itself to death
It has amused itself to death
Amused itself to death

We watched the tragedy unfold
We did as we were told, bought and sold
It was the greatest show on Earth
But then it was over

We oohed and ahhed
We drove our racing cars
We ate our last few jars of caviar
And somewhere out there in the stars
A keen eyed lookout spied a flickering light
Our last hurrah
Our last hurrah

And when they found our shadows
Groups 'round the TV sets
They ran down every lead
They repeated every test
They checked out all the data on their list
And then
The alien anthropologists
Admitted they were still perplexed
But on eliminating every other reason for our sad demise
They logged the only explanation left
This species has amused itself to death


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-P614lmP3Y&list=RDK-P614lmP3Y#t=25