Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 632.

Melbustus

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Quote from: molecular on December 06, 2014, 02:02:15 PM

Quote from: Melbustus on December 06, 2014, 01:16:51 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 11:59:33 AM

This is gonna be fun... When you buy one of his books on his site, you can get a "custom inscription" which it sounds like Jim personally hand-writes on the book. So I'll be buying one with a personal inscription regarding bitcoin that'll be utterly painful for Jim to write.

I'm taking suggestions. It can be up to 150 words.

lol, I'll get one with "Bitcoin to the moon!" if they ship to Europe affordably.

I'm going to make him write something about how bitcoin is the future of money since it solves gold's tangibility bug. It'll be a fun 150 words.

molecular

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Quote from: Melbustus on December 06, 2014, 01:16:51 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 11:59:33 AM

This is gonna be fun... When you buy one of his books on his site, you can get a "custom inscription" which it sounds like Jim personally hand-writes on the book. So I'll be buying one with a personal inscription regarding bitcoin that'll be utterly painful for Jim to write.

I'm taking suggestions. It can be up to 150 words.

lol, I'll get one with "Bitcoin to the moon!" if they ship to Europe affordably.

argh, shit:

oh yeah, I guess I'll just enter an alternative shipping address, let me see what I can do,... there's the mansion in Florida, but I wont be there for a while. Hm, maybe they ship to my castle in Estonia or the South Africa farm? I guess the Olive garden in Italy wont be shipped to either. Ah, I got it: the space station module I bought last month might be an option. Or maybe even better that moon crater I claimed.

Jesus, why is shipping shit from the states so hard? People ship from everywhere to the states for low cost. I guess exporting goods is something the US has unlearned for obvious reasons.

Melbustus

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Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 11:59:33 AM

This is gonna be fun... When you buy one of his books on his site, you can get a "custom inscription" which it sounds like Jim personally hand-writes on the book. So I'll be buying one with a personal inscription regarding bitcoin that'll be utterly painful for Jim to write.

I'm taking suggestions. It can be up to 150 words.

brg444

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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 12:26:53 PM

oh Lordy:

"My view is that no one cares about supply (how many people even know how many US dollars there are in circulation?)" said Vitalik Buterin, founder of the Ethereum project."

http://www.coindesk.com/can-bitcoins-price-ever-stable/

Yep, this guy doesn't even know the problem he's trying to solve...

I guess.... devs gon dev Wink

Adrian-x

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Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 12:26:53 PM

oh Lordy:

"My view is that no one cares about supply (how many people even know how many US dollars there are in circulation?)" said Vitalik Buterin, founder of the Ethereum project."

http://www.coindesk.com/can-bitcoins-price-ever-stable/

I remember the moment I thought about the total supply it felt like a topic no one wanted to talk about and then when you did the issue was marginalized to understanding of M0, M1, M2, and M3.

I knew it was a problem when my calculator didn't have enough digits to display the numbers involved. This was what made me realize how abstract the problem was to everyday people. That reality helped me find Bitcoin.

I guess we should leave the care taking of supply to the professionals if no one cares Roll Eyes

cypherdoc

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oh Lordy:

"My view is that no one cares about supply (how many people even know how many US dollars there are in circulation?)" said Vitalik Buterin, founder of the Ethereum project."

http://www.coindesk.com/can-bitcoins-price-ever-stable/

cypherdoc

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https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/541277736267186176

cypherdoc

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https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/541276604631375872/photo/1

cypherdoc

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Adrian-x

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Quote from: _mr_e on December 06, 2014, 12:49:48 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 04, 2014, 06:23:22 PM

ppl are getting closer to "The blockchain may only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as Money"-cypherdoc.

The fact that you are still sticking to this quote has caused me to switch from seriously respecting you to someone who can no longer take you seriously. It has already been proven time and time again that the blockchain is a brand new science that has yet to be fully explored and it's ramifications yet undiscovered. There are so many examples of how the blockchain can be used for so so much more then bitcoin as money, that your closed mindedness has me in such a serious state of shock and wonder. How is it that your mind can be so open open to Bitcoin while being so closed to it's innovations, yet be so shut down to the possibilities that the next 100 years will not expand on this innovation in more ways then humans can even begin to imagine?

Why don't you take a look at this, and tell me the blockchain is only applicable to money?

https://nxtforum.org/nxt-projects/helix-dapps-test-cp-repos/

http://finhive.com/roadmap.html

It may be easier to understand the definition of money in that quote if you read should instead of may.

Money can do amazing new things with a blockchain, but the blockchain is money as memory, your control of a percent of the conscious ledger is the money, it is only the money so long as the incentives that align to make it immutable are upheld.

Using the blockchain in new ways (Bitcoin 2.0 ideas) are novel, but it's important to distinguish between doing novel and innovative things with money (the percent of the blockchain) and using blockchain and its incentive structure to do novel things.

I don't thing cyphers quote is ignorant he has a profound understand of where the how the value forms.

cypherdoc

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there was no Ripple pre-mine. simple XRP creation out of thin air, distribution to themselves and others arbitrarily, and further creation just last/this year arbitrarily.

Jed left and started the non profit Stellar which was supposed to be better and non conflicted. then Jesse left the board. both cuz of disputes with Larson. Larson desperately got both of them not to dump their XRP for fear of dropping the price. Larson gets forced to donate his share of XRP to charity after Jesse called him out on it. now Stellar forks.

the whole debt based IOU model secured by centralized gateway signing a supposed decentralized hashchain doesn't sound like it can possibly work. why would any banks convert to this after what has happened? the ultimate in centralization of the entire protocol down to one server? sounds like the death knell to me.

most ppl are going to lose money in the cryptocurrency space.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: sidhujag on December 06, 2014, 07:14:48 AM

I know buterin and larimer met up in vegas this yr and larimer convinced buterik about dpos maybe now is when they switch.. another notch under the belt for
bitshares

I see that as a negative.

Bitshares had had to change itself several times for flawed assumptions. DPOS probably won't be any better than POS. And the fact that Vitalik was meeting with and changing its own model just this summer goes to show just how incoherent their whole concept is a well.

sidhujag

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I know buterin and larimer met up in vegas this yr and larimer convinced buterik about dpos maybe now is when they switch.. another notch under the belt for
bitshares

smooth

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Quote from: molecular on December 06, 2014, 06:19:32 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 06, 2014, 02:49:02 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 02:20:32 AM

Looks like lights out for Ripple.

Nah they will probably just continue to market the service as a centralized system. They have all these deals with banks and such now. Do those people actually care about decentralized?

It is lights out for being meaningful competition to bitcoin, but I'm not sure it ever was.

I don't think it ever was: it's a debt-tracker, not money. IOUs can be created at will by participants. If you're thinking 'XRP', well yes, that's a coin, but it's heavily premined, so also no competition to Bitcoin.

In theory, it served as a decentralized payment system. That could have served some (but clearly not all) of the same purposes as bitcoin if it actually worked, while being faster and more energy efficient. But it seems the approach is just nonsense.

molecular

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Quote from: smooth on December 06, 2014, 02:49:02 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 02:20:32 AM

Looks like lights out for Ripple.

Nah they will probably just continue to market the service as a centralized system. They have all these deals with banks and such now. Do those people actually care about decentralized?

It is lights out for being meaningful competition to bitcoin, but I'm not sure it ever was.

I don't think it ever was: it's a debt-tracker, not money. IOUs can be created at will by participants. If you're thinking 'XRP', well yes, that's a coin, but it's heavily premined, so also no competition to Bitcoin.

hdbuck

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Quote from: Melbustus on December 06, 2014, 03:22:00 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 03:04:19 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 06, 2014, 02:55:41 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 02:53:05 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 06, 2014, 02:49:02 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 02:20:32 AM

Looks like lights out for Ripple.

Nah they will probably just continue to market the service as a centralized system. They have all these deals with banks and such now. Do those people actually care about decentralized?

It is lights out for being meaningful competition to bitcoin, but I'm not sure it ever was.

Didn't they run off a hashchain model?

I read this once: https://wiki.ripple.com/Consensus

If I recall correctly there was some sort of trusted root list. I gather from this new post that they will have a single trusted root now (until the new snake oil "distributed" algorithm can be developed). But I may well have some details wrong. It's been some time since I took Ripple seriously at all.

I'm not sure they have that many banks. From what I remember there is Fidor and 2 small east coast banks. This kind of fault should be enough to kill them off imo. I think it is a hashchain model which I never understood how it could even work.

I don't know what other partnerships Ripple has, but they're pushing this new Earthport deal: http://banking-insurance.cioreview.com/news/earthport-and-ripple-labs-collaborate-to-offer-easy-crossborder-payment-solution-nid-4223-cid-23.html

In any event, I was pretty surprised about this consensus failure. I had always thought that the model was broken due to ease of Sybil attack. Didn't realize that what seems like a fairly likely-to-occur fork would wreak hours worth of irreversible havoc on the network. Yikes.

That said, I think Smooth's assertion that they'll live on with their bank partnerships and so forth is probably correct. I, for one, am seeing more excitement from the banking and fintech community about Ripple, and my guess is that they're on a path to basically being a banking system plugin that's essentially operated by the banks. This consensus failure and it's centralization-enhancing solution will accelerate that process a bit.

All in all, it just makes Ripple/Steller that much less interesting in my mind (not that it was ever all that interesting), and that much less relevant to bitcoin. Afterall, it's been clear for a while that centralized systems with bitcoin-like crypto properties would emerge. I figured some gov-coin would be the first, but maybe it's Ripple/Steller.

i'd say that's exactly the kind of initiative enabled by those same person pushing the "underlying technology" propaganda.

Melbustus

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Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 03:04:19 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 06, 2014, 02:55:41 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 02:53:05 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 06, 2014, 02:49:02 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 02:20:32 AM

Looks like lights out for Ripple.

Nah they will probably just continue to market the service as a centralized system. They have all these deals with banks and such now. Do those people actually care about decentralized?

It is lights out for being meaningful competition to bitcoin, but I'm not sure it ever was.

Didn't they run off a hashchain model?

I read this once: https://wiki.ripple.com/Consensus

If I recall correctly there was some sort of trusted root list. I gather from this new post that they will have a single trusted root now (until the new snake oil "distributed" algorithm can be developed). But I may well have some details wrong. It's been some time since I took Ripple seriously at all.

I'm not sure they have that many banks. From what I remember there is Fidor and 2 small east coast banks. This kind of fault should be enough to kill them off imo. I think it is a hashchain model which I never understood how it could even work.

I don't know what other partnerships Ripple has, but they're pushing this new Earthport deal: http://banking-insurance.cioreview.com/news/earthport-and-ripple-labs-collaborate-to-offer-easy-crossborder-payment-solution-nid-4223-cid-23.html

In any event, I was pretty surprised about this consensus failure. I had always thought that the model was broken due to ease of Sybil attack. Didn't realize that what seems like a fairly likely-to-occur fork would wreak hours worth of irreversible havoc on the network. Yikes.

That said, I think Smooth's assertion that they'll live on with their bank partnerships and so forth is probably correct. I, for one, am seeing more excitement from the banking and fintech community about Ripple, and my guess is that they're on a path to basically being a banking system plugin that's essentially operated by the banks. This consensus failure and it's centralization-enhancing solution will accelerate that process a bit.

All in all, it just makes Ripple/Steller that much less interesting in my mind (not that it was ever all that interesting), and that much less relevant to bitcoin. Afterall, it's been clear for a while that centralized systems with bitcoin-like crypto properties would emerge. I figured some gov-coin would be the first, but maybe it's Ripple/Steller.

smooth

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Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 03:04:19 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 06, 2014, 02:55:41 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 02:53:05 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 06, 2014, 02:49:02 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 02:20:32 AM

Looks like lights out for Ripple.

Nah they will probably just continue to market the service as a centralized system. They have all these deals with banks and such now. Do those people actually care about decentralized?

It is lights out for being meaningful competition to bitcoin, but I'm not sure it ever was.

Didn't they run off a hashchain model?

I read this once: https://wiki.ripple.com/Consensus

If I recall correctly there was some sort of trusted root list. I gather from this new post that they will have a single trusted root now (until the new snake oil "distributed" algorithm can be developed). But I may well have some details wrong. It's been some time since I took Ripple seriously at all.

I'm not sure they have that many banks. From what I remember there is Fidor and 2 small east coast banks. This kind of fault should be enough to kill them off imo. I think it is a hashchain model which I never understood how it could even work.

I thought they had more deals but I guess those were just rumors. I don't see anything else announced.

What about Stellar? They're fairly new and got 3 million USD startup funds from Stripe, which in turn just raised another 50 million giving it a 3.5 billion valuation. Do you think they keep going with this?

cypherdoc

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Quote from: smooth on December 06, 2014, 02:55:41 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 02:53:05 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 06, 2014, 02:49:02 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 02:20:32 AM

Looks like lights out for Ripple.

Nah they will probably just continue to market the service as a centralized system. They have all these deals with banks and such now. Do those people actually care about decentralized?

It is lights out for being meaningful competition to bitcoin, but I'm not sure it ever was.

Didn't they run off a hashchain model?

I read this once: https://wiki.ripple.com/Consensus

If I recall correctly there was some sort of trusted root list. I gather from this new post that they will have a single trusted root now (until the new snake oil "distributed" algorithm can be developed). But I may well have some details wrong. It's been some time since I took Ripple seriously at all.

I'm not sure they have that many banks. From what I remember there is Fidor and 2 small east coast banks. This kind of fault should be enough to kill them off imo. I think it is a hashchain model which I never understood how it could even work.

smooth

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Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 02:53:05 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 06, 2014, 02:49:02 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on December 06, 2014, 02:20:32 AM

Looks like lights out for Ripple.

Nah they will probably just continue to market the service as a centralized system. They have all these deals with banks and such now. Do those people actually care about decentralized?

It is lights out for being meaningful competition to bitcoin, but I'm not sure it ever was.

Didn't they run off a hashchain model?

I read this once: https://wiki.ripple.com/Consensus

If I recall correctly there was some sort of trusted root list. I gather from this new post that they will have a single trusted root now (until the new snake oil "distributed" algorithm can be developed). But I may well have some details wrong. It's been some time since I took Ripple seriously at all.

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 632. (Read 2032293 times)