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Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 634. (Read 2032266 times)

legendary
Activity: 1193
Merit: 1003
9.9.2012: I predict that single digits... <- FAIL
December 05, 2014, 02:28:00 PM


Places where Bitcoin use should be expanded.
For the health and welfare of the people.

There is a challenge, it is unlikely that any of the nations on that list have mined a lot of Bitcoins.
So there are very few ways Bitcoin can find there way there. it is likely most of those on the list have very stringent exchange controls so buying Bitcoin to import is difficult.

Quite a few have cheep energy cost, so mining could be a viable way to export cheep subsidized electricity. (I've glanced at Ukraine and suspect while bitcoin is readily available its probably very expensive when sold at one of over 4000 ATM's, and some one has taken advantage of the there highly subsidized electricity - GHash.io possibly paying as low as $0.026 US per kWh )

As for the majority though energy costs are relatively high given the cost of living so entrepreneurs might find it more practical to find a commodity to export in-order to earn Bitcoin. (ie they are going to be slow to adopt) Surprisingly Canada electricity cost in comparison with cost of living is surprisingly cheep.

Just looking at these numbers there are some great opportunities, Egypt stands out, if you could come up with a decentralized mining solution that substituted for some existing electric heating application, you could employ a nation wide distributed mining farm for just pennies per kWh.  

Tourism
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
December 05, 2014, 02:09:52 PM


Places where Bitcoin use should be expanded.
For the health and welfare of the people.

There is a challenge, it is unlikely that any of the nations on that list have mined a lot of Bitcoins.
So there are very few ways Bitcoin can find there way there. it is likely most of those on the list have very stringent exchange controls so buying Bitcoin to import is difficult.

Quite a few have cheep energy cost, so mining could be a viable way to export cheep subsidized electricity. (I've glanced at Ukraine and suspect while bitcoin is readily available its probably very expensive when sold at one of over 4000 ATM's, and some one has taken advantage of the there highly subsidized electricity - GHash.io possibly paying as low as $0.026 US per kWh )

As for the majority though energy costs are relatively high given the cost of living so entrepreneurs might find it more practical to find a commodity to export in-order to earn Bitcoin. (ie they are going to be slow to adopt) Surprisingly Canada electricity cost in comparison with cost of living is surprisingly cheep.

Just looking at these numbers there are some great opportunities, Egypt stands out, if you could come up with a decentralized mining solution that substituted for some existing electric heating application, you could employ a nation wide distributed mining farm for just pennies per kWh.  


legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
December 05, 2014, 01:23:30 PM


Places where Bitcoin use should be expanded.
For the health and welfare of the people.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
December 05, 2014, 01:17:48 PM
Citigroup Chief Economist GOLD is Effectively SHINY BITCOIN  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdUZHgieISc (nothing new but the ideas peculating into the public sphere.)
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
December 05, 2014, 01:17:34 PM
Awesome bubble-burst for some schadenfreude...



Of course, without the bailout it's chart would look like Enron, not gold's.

That, and the House of Saud bought in at pretty much the post crash low.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
December 05, 2014, 11:46:44 AM
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
December 05, 2014, 10:45:53 AM
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1000
Want privacy? Use Monero!
December 05, 2014, 05:47:21 AM
Quote
Dan Morehead ‏@dan_pantera
Bidding closed for US Marshals #Bitcoin auction.  Pantera placed bids below the market.  Results out tomorrow by 2pm PST.  Probably earlier.

 Undecided

markets are not gonna like this

I think Pantera is not going to like it. Tim Draper is nuts for Bitcoin and will bid aggressively.

 Cheesy

that's also what I'm thinking. Tim or someone else. Pantera, I believe, only bids as a syndicate and I would expect those to bid low

or they publicly say they bid below market but in reality bid higher  Tongue
What is "market price" anyway Wink
legendary
Activity: 961
Merit: 1000
December 05, 2014, 05:38:57 AM
Keep in mind, this is only what was caught, not what was missed, no telling how much.

True, although bear in mind that "caught" (and fines paid) doesn't necessarily mean guilty in the casual sense either. Often times the actual offense being charged or investigated (and then settled) are technical violations of recordkeeping requirements, failure to follow the bank's own AML policies, etc. These may or may not relate directly to actual criminal activity. This doesn't mean they aren't guilty of course. For example, one reason a bank might settle is to stop the digging before it uncovers something worse.





There shouldn't be this grey area. If you break the law you should be held accountable. If it is technical, then it can be considered, but there should be admissions of guilt and extra compliance required. Unfortunately there are many many instances when the law is broken and the 'guilty' party pays a fine without admitting guilt.  The US prosecutorial bodies have an ironic policy of opting for penalties over prison. It stems from Eric Holder's Clinton era memo (that was actually relatively aggressive - the ironic part) that contained the sentence "prosecutors may consider the collateral consequences of a corporate criminal conviction in determining whether to charge the corporation with a criminal offense". Meant to mean that there may be other ways to punish to stop people losing jobs etc if a company was shut, it became putty in the hands of rooms full of lawyers, especially after the Bush era Arthur Andersen case fell apart.

All in all, it is a case of two systems; if I run a business I can be shut down for any level of infraction and I absolutely will if I defraud the public on a large scale. I won't get a fine (that is less than the profit I made) and not have to admit guilt.

legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
December 05, 2014, 03:53:38 AM
it's not just ridiculous, it's dangerous.

yeah.  it just goes to show you how far down the totalitarian rabbit hole these guys have gone.  really scary shit.

This is a war. The so called economy has never been something different than a war, because its root and ground is Organized Violence (state and church). It is the society. Beyond the society of the citizens (which per se is war and collectivism) you'll find the real human, the absence of the society: the community (autarchy, anarchy, self-sufficiency = the absence of the economy).

„We are literally in a race between our ability to build and deploy technology, and their ability to build and deploy laws and treaties. Neither side is likely to back down or wise up until it has definitively lost the race.“

John Gilmore
hero member
Activity: 544
Merit: 500
December 05, 2014, 03:34:17 AM
Our task to fight them, we are doing well.

Actually we don't even need to fight, just build an alternative system that is completely outside of their facist control.

Enough with the BS compromise and 'working with regulators' memes, these are all essentially sops to the facists when examined closely.

The problem being faced is that changing someone's 'money' is a very difficult and in many cases the ideas and concepts are more ingrained and personal than their religion.

what does the adoption curve of Atheism look like ?
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code
December 05, 2014, 03:26:07 AM
Awesome bubble-burst for some schadenfreude...



Of course, without the bailout it's chart would look like Enron, not gold's.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
December 05, 2014, 03:08:21 AM
Our task to fight them, we are doing well.

Actually we don't even need to fight, just build an alternative system that is completely outside of their facist control.

Enough with the BS compromise and 'working with regulators' memes, these are all essentially sops to the facists when examined closely.

+1 the next thing you get working with them is their BS propaganda about the "underlying technology".

but the effective disruption is that we dont need them anymore. they are obsolete.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
December 05, 2014, 03:02:16 AM
Our task to fight them, we are doing well.

Actually we don't even need to fight, just build an alternative system that is completely outside of their facist control.

Enough with the BS compromise and 'working with regulators' memes, these are all essentially sops to the facists when examined closely.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1004
December 05, 2014, 02:36:18 AM
...A patient, thoughtful criminal will have no problem evading even the best forensic specialists...


Well... Marc Andreessen has noted that the smarter people he's talked to in certain three-letter-agencies have realized that encouraging bitcoin use will help them catch the *really* bad guys.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code
December 05, 2014, 01:34:50 AM
ohoh




even i have to admit there was a point late last year or early this year when i was worried about the lack of tx growth.  that clearly is no longer a concern and i am as bullish as ever.

A contributing factor: 2.0 business

bitcoin n tx reached 100045 for the first time, 3402 were counterparty tx, that's 3.4%

quite a bit of those were the GEMS sale held by koinfiy

https://koinify.com/blog/gems-public-sale-launch/
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
December 05, 2014, 01:07:31 AM
Haha.  Thanks for the laugh.

Sure, the blockchain is public, but good luck linking a cautious criminal to a wallet.  And good luck tracking coins through a well-designed mixing service, not to mention portions of ill gotten coins being sprinkled like pixie dust across innocent wallets to throw off the authorities.  Really, this isn't supernatural.  It isn't complicated.  A patient, thoughtful criminal will have no problem evading even the best forensic specialists.  It's a nice feature for Bitcoin users and a pain in the ass for investigators.  A losing battle.  Does Bitcoin offer true anonymity right out of the box?  No, not directly, but the tools are there.

You're arguing that since most money laundering is done through banks, then money laundering through Bitcoin isn't practical?  You realize how ridiculous that argument is, I hope.  Essentially all of the world's wealth sits in banks.  Thus, I would expect most laundering to originate from those banks.  Besides, you're talking about a technology that hasn't even been around for a decade.  It'll take just a little time to catch up.

No I am arguing that it is easier to launder money with a bank, and easier to get away with it by using a bank.  The higher the amount, the more true this comparison is.

The "tools" you mention for Bitcoin are also available in traditional banking, it is just harder to track through traditional banks because none of the transactions are transparent to government by law without subpoena.

Really the main advantage to forensics with banks is just that banks are are mostly slower.

You speculate that it will take time to catch up... however we might be surprised at the crypto currency tracking tools already automated in some of the nation-state software dev shops.

The old and already public tech should provide some clue for you to what is newer and still secret
http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~smeiklejohn/files/imc13.pdf
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
December 05, 2014, 12:51:45 AM
This is hogwash.

Bitcoin makes forensic accounting less troublesome, not more.
Bitcoin comes pre-subpoenaed.  All transactions on the block chain are public, unencrypted, and permanent.
Contrast this with financial institutions that can change their records, auditors that can shred documents, and companies that can refuse to comply with disclosure requirements, delay and forstal.

If you want to launder money, forget about Bitcoin.  Start a bank instead, it is a lot easier that way, and a lot more lucrative.

In 2012, a single bank paid more in fines for their money laundering than Bitcoin's market cap in 2013.  Bitcoin is peanuts, its not even big enough to handle real money laundering today.
By the way, 2012 wasn't anything extreme.

In 2014m BNP (a different single bank) is paying US$8.9Billion this year in fines for money laundering.  If you think these fines are going to slow the banks down... they aren't.  Its just a part of the cost of doing business.  Pay the vig to a government to cut them in on the deal so you can carry on.



Keep in mind, this is only what was caught, not what was missed, no telling how much.

Haha.  Thanks for the laugh.

Sure, the blockchain is public, but good luck linking a cautious criminal to a wallet.  And good luck tracking coins through a well-designed mixing service, not to mention portions of ill gotten coins being sprinkled like pixie dust across innocent wallets to throw off the authorities.  Really, this isn't supernatural.  It isn't complicated.  A patient, thoughtful criminal will have no problem evading even the best forensic specialists.  It's a nice feature for Bitcoin users and a pain in the ass for investigators.  A losing battle.  Does Bitcoin offer true anonymity right out of the box?  No, not directly, but the tools are there.

You're arguing that since most money laundering is done through banks, then money laundering through Bitcoin isn't practical?  You realize how ridiculous that argument is, I hope.  Essentially all of the world's wealth sits in banks.  Thus, I would expect most laundering to originate from those banks.  Besides, you're talking about a technology that hasn't even been around for a decade.  It'll take just a little time to catch up.
hero member
Activity: 625
Merit: 501
x
December 05, 2014, 12:32:39 AM
I'd love to watch a voiceover video of both this presentation and the Ernst & Young presentation, replacing any usage of 'Bitcoin' with 'cash'.
I mean, as a company, they seem to have strategized on an attack vector, but this seems to bring to light both the ridiculousness and luddite nature of their stance better than anything else I've been able to come up with.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Hard to argue we've moved on to the fight stage.
One step away.
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