Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 660. (Read 2032265 times)

Bitcoin & friends don't operate on trust, they use proof of work.  Have you even read the whitepaper?

And Bitcoin is far from being "the one & only trusted ledger."  Litecoin, Peercoin, and Primecoin have been doing very well for a couple of years, TYVM.  Why would you only trust only one form of proof of work?  If a SHA256 or ECDSA exploit is found, BTC goes to zero.

Platforms are value neutral.  TCP/IP is being used for evil as MS/Google/Apple/Facebook aid and abet the creation of databases that would make Stalin and Honecker blush with embarrassment and shame.

 

You don't really believe these things you write do you?

You should know some people have motives beyond financial gains.

Fixed:P

You forgot the period after UP.

That's not what this guy is saying: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=869664.msg9631525;topicseen#msg9631525

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP!

Quite the opposite actually. 

Good time to buy gold and short bitcoin.

Inflation punishes savers over spenders and enriches the issuing authority unjustly.  Some people think it is better for growth.  History shows stable money and low tax is the best formula for growth.  

Bitcoin is inflationary in terms of monetary base, not deflationary as new Bitcoin are issued with each block.  People consider it deflationary because its relative value tends to rise (especially when it isn't falling) and because of the asymptotic cap of 21M but Bitcoin that haven't been issued can't really be considered until they are spendable.  Bitcoin is above 4% inflation for the next few years yet as shown:

Either time travel is my other hobby or a digit dropped off the date parameter on the BB tag, or both.

If I ever get out of here,
Thought of giving it all away
To a registered charity.
(Quote from: NewLiberty on June 28, 1974, 05:04:08 PM. Interesting quote date)

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency. 

I predict btc prices rising so high that transactions suffer and noone wants to spend only hodl... Thus breaking rules of currency. At that point a proper eystem will begin to take hold and take over the next few years. my first concern over bitcoin is there is no inflationary concept and it will be its last.

I alao did predict that the only coins standing will be mm based coins and seems that ppl finally see the light.

Here's the thing, these miner's economic incentives are also what subverts the security of MM SCs.  

The problem here is that SCs are expected to be valuable.

To paraphrase Peter Todd, merge-mining without majority, (or at least near-majority) hashing power of the whole pool of the miners compatible with doing so...an attacker can 51% attack the SC at negligible cost by re-using existing hashing power.  

Namecoin is exceptional because it is a time-stamping service that is a mere public good and perhaps more importantly, not profitable.  So without money involved, the economic incentive to attack it would come from competitive forces (ICANN? LOL!).

Dogecoin-Litecoin?  Another exception.  Dogecoin is just the cutest of all the crypto currencies.  So charity, much wow.  People won't like you much for kicking a dog when its down.  SCs are about the money/assets/privacy, so they have no such immunity.  They are more attractive targets, and potentially much more lucrative.

To release a SC MM'd with Bitcoin, it should be launched with near complete acceptance by the entire mining community of Bitcoin.  (and getting that requires both centralization of mining, and trusting the centralized controllers)

MM is a trade-off.  With merge mining you get protection against all the externals to crypto, in exchange for vulnerability to all the internals, the ASIC armed Bitcoin miners.  It is a delicate balance as to which is the greater risk.  Furthermore, the incentives to attack should be expected to shift as a SC gains value or if a large number of BTC get locked into the SC.  The economics and vulnerability profile are much less simple than you make it sound.

...

The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold.

Yes, fiat sucks ass, however I refuse to believe anybody launching a fractional fiat system is mathematically retarded enough to think it is long term tennable. I suspect it's collapse was planned in from the start. A very slick way of extracting labor from peons.

The currently collapsing system was a case of "do as i say, not as i do, or feel the wrath!". i.e. if we were to help with "inflation" we would be locked up as counterfeiters.

Bitcoin is a tool that offers a robust solution, but I fear the general population is too idiotic to make it happen. They are too easily swayed by emotional FUD spreading sheisters and they no longer trust themselves, they still trust besuited "experts" though. Their are very few free thinking and articulate men and women left on the planet.

Only a small fraction of a percent of people understand what money is (or what it's supposed to be) they are still like children.

The end of the dollar-as-we-know-it is already baked in.  We are just playing out the rope.  It has nothing to do with Bitcoin, the Empire has done it to itself with a broken model.

Bitcoin is one of the possibilities of preventing the war and despotism, that historically follows when very large currencies fail....

Napoleon after the Assignat hiperinflation
Hitler after the Weimar Republic
Dark Ages after the Roman debasement

Bitcoin brings a hope for peace in the times to come.  The time that any student of history can tell us promises to be the most dire challenge humanity has yet faced.  We just need to can keep it from doing to itself what every other currency does.

 

Let me see.


Proof is in the pudding. Yes it implies a change to the miners incentives model but one can certainly argue it is for the better. SPVP is neutral, the subsequent sidechains resulting from its implementation can be used in every possible ways but none that is not already possible through federated models or off-chain services.

So no, it is unlikely that SPVP has a unique ability to spawn some kind of monster-malware sidechain that causes any significant danger to Bitcoin.


I think that's pretty self-explanatory. Your attempt at painting the picture in a way that supposedly makes the sidechain "off-ramp" worse than more conventional schemes because the unit is somehow "detached" from the mainchain (even though that is technically not true) is misguiding. The concern is with the value that is stored and whether or not it is stored securely and in a way that reconciles with the main ledger.


SPVP Sidechains present an opportunity to respect the Sound Money property of Bitcoin on the protocol level without any additional trust required from outside of the Bitcoin network.


Maybe another technology will appear that could rival SPVP (SNARKS?) but I should say it is in fact merged-mining that enables the protection of miners' economic incentives

there are so many dangerous assertions in here that have no proof to back them up.  as i'm the one who's advocating doing nothing, the burden of proof is upon you.

we keep going round and round.

Well then sidechains are a way toward that and in no way do they disrupt the network effect of Bitcoin's money function more than any other alternatives potentially could.

Your concern that sidechains distract us from the money function is asinine. If anything sidechains will create considerable value for the ecosystem which will translate into more demand for the BTC unit.

Malware   lol stop spewing nonsense please. SPVP, at the risk of repeating myself, is an alternative mechanism for proof verification between a sidechain and the mainchain. The only thing SPVP enables is a more decentralized sidechains models that does not have to rely on centralized entities for its security but derives its own security from the miners' work.

The "sanctity of the inextricable link btwn the BTC currency unit and its BC" is already challenged at present state by off-chain schemes. The issue is not with seperating the unit from the chain but the value from the ledger. Off-chains schemes are the most important risk to the integrity of the ledger and they are what you should be concerned about.

Sidechain offers a potentially safer way to assign value from the ledger outside of the main blockchain.


The off ramp introduced by SPVP is the only one that can secure miners' incentives (transaction fees) in the future. Any other of the many different models of off-ramp that exist today are a danger to "hijack" these transactions fees.