Author

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 936. (Read 2032272 times)

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 20, 2014, 02:37:47 PM
...
However note that the rate of growth has started to slow down instead of speed up at around November '13:







That's actually kinda good.


I actually agree.

There's been so many millions thrown into mining hardware you'd think the network is first and foremost trying to fortify itself from a future attack no matter the price of bitcoin. But now, since the cost to produce a bitcoin exceeds the reward, we should expect a lot of those speculative millions to head into exchanges instead for direct purchases.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
September 20, 2014, 02:34:08 PM
...
However note that the rate of growth has started to slow down instead of speed up at around November '13:







That's actually kinda good. The sooner we get to a mature mining market, the better for the security of bitcoin in general. I'll consider bitcoin a little less exposed when a few things happen:

1) There are no more hash/watt exponential gains to be had from a mining-tech jump; eg, going from 28nm ASICs to 22nm, etc. We may at that point now, actually. The gains from new process tech are certainly diminishing (as the taper in difficulty rise probably shows).

2) The power requirements of a 51% are an order of magnitude bigger than the world's largest datacenters.



I also look forward to a 'saturated' mining market. Miners would operate at marginal cost and a very large part of expenses would be operational (power, maintenance), not capital investment. Everything else being equal (especially bitcoin price), hashrate should then grow according to moore's law and miners would sell close to all coins into markets.

Last year I've been thinking we might reach your point 1.) in the first half of 2014. This hasn't materialized, mining technology is still improving faster than moore (still catching up on other fronts).

I'm not sure your point 2.) means less danger for bitcoin. A 51% attack could be distributed across multiple datacenters or done using pools. It's hard for me to imagine someone (govt?) doing a 51% attack this way anyway. The most likely scenario I think would be governments forcing miners (51% of them) to censor transactions and consider blocks containing censored transactions as invalid. But for that to be a meaningful tool for them (say they want to cut off wikileaks for example) they first need to have better coin-tracking (hello coinbase, circle,...)
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1004
September 20, 2014, 02:13:31 PM
...
However note that the rate of growth has started to slow down instead of speed up at around November '13:







That's actually kinda good. The sooner we get to a mature mining market, the better for the security of bitcoin in general. I'll consider bitcoin a little less exposed when a few things happen:

1) There are no more hash/watt exponential gains to be had from a mining-tech jump; eg, going from 28nm ASICs to 22nm, etc. We may at that point now, actually. The gains from new process tech are certainly diminishing (as the taper in difficulty rise probably shows).

2) The power requirements of a 51% are an order of magnitude bigger than the world's largest datacenters.

donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
September 20, 2014, 01:38:16 PM
the Bitcoin Virus won't stop replicating:



Someone over at blockchin reads this thread, that chart looks a lot more smooth.
Still this hashing increase is in my view is phenomenal.

It is absolutely phenomenal.

However note that the rate of growth has started to slow down instead of speed up at around November '13:



legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
September 20, 2014, 01:34:49 PM
this is one disturbing piece of propaganda that has nothing to do with Bitcoin.  note the concept of trapping ppl into a digital cash system with negative interest rates.  this is Ken Rogoff's (Harvard economist) idea:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2gxr93/the_economist_the_benefits_of_getting_rid_of_cash/

Economists pretty much all work for government, or want to.  Some are at Universities on government grants or state univeristies.
Its rare to find one that is not corrupted by statist interests, always hopeful though.
hero member
Activity: 496
Merit: 500
Spanish Bitcoin trader
September 20, 2014, 01:30:51 PM
this is one disturbing piece of propaganda that has nothing to do with Bitcoin.  note the concept of trapping ppl into a digital cash system with negative interest rates.  this is Ken Rogoff's (Harvard economist) idea:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2gxr93/the_economist_the_benefits_of_getting_rid_of_cash/
And Larry Summers', who I get the impression (not only from this piece of propaganda) that he is a very appreciated idol in the US. He used to be the guy who was always right in the Clinton Administration, right?

http://www.businessinsider.com/larry-summers-imf-speech-on-the-zero-lower-bound-2013-11
legendary
Activity: 1281
Merit: 1000
☑ ♟ ☐ ♚
September 20, 2014, 11:52:52 AM


Pay attention to the bulls balls of steel!
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 20, 2014, 11:23:50 AM
440 criticality incoming
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 20, 2014, 11:15:42 AM
yes, oh yes!
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 20, 2014, 11:02:09 AM
BTC-e is gonna get squeezed
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 20, 2014, 11:00:40 AM
top 10 nations for Bitcoin use via merchants/population:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112561/top-10-nations-in-bitcoin-merchant-adoption

note:  i actually consider the US a laggard
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 20, 2014, 10:51:22 AM
the Bitcoin Virus won't stop replicating:



Someone over at blockchin reads this thread, that chart looks a lot more smooth.
Still this hashing increase is in my view is phenomenal.

no, that's just me clicking on the 7d avg button instead.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
September 20, 2014, 10:49:28 AM
True, we will see a 650 price before next year
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
September 20, 2014, 10:46:09 AM
the Bitcoin Virus won't stop replicating:



Someone over at blockchin reads this thread, that chart looks a lot more smooth.
Still this hashing increase is in my view is phenomenal.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
September 20, 2014, 10:42:57 AM
Before the agricultural revolution, it took humanity about one million years on average to develop enough infrastructure/capability to support an additional one million humans living at subsistence levels. After the agricultural revolution, that changed to talking only a few hundred years. Now, after the industrial revolution, that takes 90 minutes on average.

There are huge side effects:
http://www.worldwildlife.org/threats/soil-erosion-and-degradation

That's important but the kicker is overall economic growth, we're moving from a meme of more to a meme of better. The problem is the centers of control are working from the ideology of Co opting / controlling the supply of more. Monopolies have no value when people find alternatives,  micro electronics, alternate energy and food security technologies like aquaponics (oh and money) are reshaping everything.

Forget it, Adrian.

In economics, the Jevons paradox (/ˈdʒɛvənz/; sometimes Jevons effect) is the proposition that as technology progresses, the increase in efficiency with which a resource is used tends to increase (rather than decrease) the rate of consumption of that resource.[1] In 1865, the English economist William Stanley Jevons observed that technological improvements that increased the efficiency of coal-use led to the increased consumption of coal in a wide range of industries. He argued that, contrary to common intuition, technological improvements could not be relied upon to reduce fuel consumption.[2]

The issue has been re-examined by modern economists studying consumption rebound effects from improved energy efficiency. In addition to reducing the amount needed for a given use, improved efficiency lowers the relative cost of using a resource, which tends to increase the quantity of the resource demanded, potentially counteracting any savings from increased efficiency. Additionally, increased efficiency accelerates economic growth, further increasing the demand for resources. The Jevons paradox occurs when the effect from increased demand predominates, causing resource use to increase


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

I'm aware of Jevons_paradox, but much smarter people than me (Satosi) know it's only supply and demand that brings it into equilibrium. The divergence in usage as a result of innovation also express it's self in an economy as art and culture ultimately this is enriched experiences.

We won't find a comfortable equilibrium with constant economic growth as managed under the target of central banks.


With or without central banks: "a comfortable equilibrium with constant economic growth" is an oxymoron.
An economy is a collectivist organisation (state bastard), and:

"Essentially, the economy is an engine that transforms resources into waste."

http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/ugo-bardi/2011/07/22/entropy-peak-oil-and-stoic-philosophy-part-2

An economy is by extension part of an ecosystem, entropy is a feature, one which drives the evolution of life. Waste as president in you referenced material is a byproduct of an economy artificially stimulated by monetarist policy. In nature and by extension a deflationary economy waste is just another input not inefficient use of resources (I.e. waste = food.)
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 20, 2014, 10:42:28 AM
no better place for a bottom  Wink

so price ended up slicing down thru the support levels in the 440 range w/o difficulty.  oftentimes those throw unders cause the final capitulation of the weak hands to sell.  now that we're bouncing, the flipside key will be if price can slice back UP thru what was once support and is now resistance.  if we do get over 440, it should be off to the races to the upside to around the next resistance level of 600.  i think it happens:

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 20, 2014, 10:35:45 AM
this is one disturbing piece of propaganda that has nothing to do with Bitcoin.  note the concept of trapping ppl into a digital cash system with negative interest rates.  this is Ken Rogoff's (Harvard economist) idea:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2gxr93/the_economist_the_benefits_of_getting_rid_of_cash/
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 20, 2014, 10:18:42 AM
localBitcoins solidly contributing.  looks long lasting:

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 20, 2014, 10:03:59 AM
nor will the Nash Equilibrium stop equilibrating:

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 20, 2014, 10:02:10 AM
the Bitcoin Virus won't stop replicating:

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