Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 965. (Read 2032274 times)
Or it could just be borrowed BTC from speculators (the walls) - no?
take it down...
I'm getting really sick of these dudes.
it's really quite fascinating price action, or inaction, one might say.
to my mind, they're blocking walls. someone needs to keep the price down. but yeah, they seem to have an endless supply of coins. the good news is that the buyers are getting bolder and buying up everything right up to the edge of the large ask walls. the spread, instead of increasing, is decreasing as buyers get more comfortable knowing that the ask walls aren't going to suddenly market sell and wipe out the bid side. buyers are slowly eating them away and it's just a matter of time.
I've done some experiments in a small altcoin market that has some bots and also some humans.
In cases where I want to buy (and after checking market conditions are right, i.e: there's some willingness to sell), I would market-sell down first (hoping for some fear), then put a huge scary sell wall or multiple ones. They need to be larger than the available buying funds of the individual players, otherwise the danger is high they will be bought up (remember: I just slammed the market below its comfort zone). Players will then place sell orders below my great walls. I wait (maybe they'll even push the price lower, in a little outbidding-each-other war... some bots are like that). Then I buy up the stuff accumulating below my walls repeatedly until this game is exhausted. If it works out well, I have bought many coins and the buying pressure has increased because those other players have sold. Of course then I remove my walls and go the other way.
Just saying: I might not necessarily be "holding the price down", could just be an accumulation strategy.
It would also fit your statement: "market is getting bolder and buying up right to the walls": It might not be other people, it could be the owners of the walls themselves.
they are automated bots/algorithms ... with well-crafted strategies, constraints, heuristics modelling, etc in place to maximise sell pressure at a minimum "cost" (i.e. loss of coins).
... it doesn't appear the bid side has got the technical/coinage firepower in place as yet.
This is how all/most of the commodity/stock markets are managed these days ... until they fail catastrophically, all hell breaks loose and the tax payers get lined up to bail out the banks who operate the algos, or if it is not too big maybe some hapless "rogue trader" fall guy gets trooped out.
... it doesn't appear the bid side has got the technical/coinage firepower in place as yet.
This is how all/most of the commodity/stock markets are managed these days ... until they fail catastrophically, all hell breaks loose and the tax payers get lined up to bail out the banks who operate the algos, or if it is not too big maybe some hapless "rogue trader" fall guy gets trooped out.
it's really quite fascinating price action, or inaction, one might say.
to my mind, they're blocking walls. someone needs to keep the price down. but yeah, they seem to have an endless supply of coins. the good news is that the buyers are getting bolder and buying up everything right up to the edge of the large ask walls. the spread, instead of increasing, is decreasing as buyers get more comfortable knowing that the ask walls aren't going to suddenly market sell and wipe out the bid side. buyers are slowly eating them away and it's just a matter of time.
to my mind, they're blocking walls. someone needs to keep the price down. but yeah, they seem to have an endless supply of coins. the good news is that the buyers are getting bolder and buying up everything right up to the edge of the large ask walls. the spread, instead of increasing, is decreasing as buyers get more comfortable knowing that the ask walls aren't going to suddenly market sell and wipe out the bid side. buyers are slowly eating them away and it's just a matter of time.
I got that same feeling quite strongly for the first time today. Someone wants to keep the price down. I think they're coiling the spring waiting for the right moment
Do you ever have a thought that makes you shiver? I did today. I was at the gym sitting on a bench and thinking, "I bet I'm the only person here who has a sizeable position in bitcoins," when I noticed that a significant number of people were staring at their phones. It hit me how I'm sort of the same as everyone else--I just happened to stumble upon bitcoin a bit earlier. If all these people knew what I knew, a few of them would probably be checking bitcoinity right now.
So I was imagining that bitcoin was making headlines again, but this time there's even more awareness. Most importantly, there's a way that anybody can instantly buy bitcoins with a credit card from their phone. And I could just see it: there's going to be a rally, and it's going to last for weeks, at first it will be only a few people, but at the gym or at the pub these people will set their friends up with Circle accounts and instantly buy bitcoins as the price continues to rally. By the end everybody is going to be staring at their phones and cheering on the price of bitcoin. Gamblers will keep increasing their exposure as the price climbs, and the rally will last longer and go higher than everyone imagines.
And then we'll all be staring at our phones when it crashes.
Anyways, what gave me the shivers was this feeling of inevitability to the whole thing, and how connected our phones make us, and how that interconnectedness allows things to change very quickly. What happens when 21 million people press the "buy now" button on their phones at the same time?
who knows but i'm not sure flash dumping would be a viable strategy if you're the trader tasked with accumulating coins below a certain price. it would be too risky. but who knows for sure; it could be a real seller after all who just wants us to over read the situation.
Yea, I suppose anything is possible but currently I'm leaning towards the manipulation side. The way these walls just chase the bids down whenever the dumping starts is interesting to watch. I sure am ready for the next "spurt" though!
Definitely agree that it's manipulation. We've all been watching these for weeks now and the behavior would highly suggest that.
who knows but i'm not sure flash dumping would be a viable strategy if you're the trader tasked with accumulating coins below a certain price. it would be too risky. but who knows for sure; it could be a real seller after all who just wants us to over read the situation.
Yea, I suppose anything is possible but currently I'm leaning towards the manipulation side. The way these walls just chase the bids down whenever the dumping starts is interesting to watch. I sure am ready for the next "spurt" though!
the blocking walls still haven't budged. i think they're meant to cause nervous, weak hand small traders to cut in front and market sell the price down for them. don't get fooled.
take it down...
I'm getting really sick of these dudes.
it's really quite fascinating price action, or inaction, one might say.
to my mind, they're blocking walls. someone needs to keep the price down. but yeah, they seem to have an endless supply of coins. the good news is that the buyers are getting bolder and buying up everything right up to the edge of the large ask walls. the spread, instead of increasing, is decreasing as buyers get more comfortable knowing that the ask walls aren't going to suddenly market sell and wipe out the bid side. buyers are slowly eating them away and it's just a matter of time.
The manipulators must react to the change in buyer sentiment if they're going to continue their game. If you can see the change, then they can as well. Like you said, they seem to have a hell of a lot of coins, and if walls don't scare the crowd anymore, they might resort to flash dumps.
yeah, this is a stand down/off. i don't recall any of these big walls executing a flash dump as you say. thus again, i think they are blocking walls. but you're right, their game is coming to a close so they'll have to change strategy.
The other question is who are they and where did they get all these coins that they don't mind dumping at a "discount".
who knows but i'm not sure flash dumping would be a viable strategy if you're the trader tasked with accumulating coins below a certain price. it would be too risky. but who knows for sure; it could be a real seller after all who just wants us to over read the situation.
take it down...
I'm getting really sick of these dudes.
it's really quite fascinating price action, or inaction, one might say.
to my mind, they're blocking walls. someone needs to keep the price down. but yeah, they seem to have an endless supply of coins. the good news is that the buyers are getting bolder and buying up everything right up to the edge of the large ask walls. the spread, instead of increasing, is decreasing as buyers get more comfortable knowing that the ask walls aren't going to suddenly market sell and wipe out the bid side. buyers are slowly eating them away and it's just a matter of time.
The manipulators must react to the change in buyer sentiment if they're going to continue their game. If you can see the change, then they can as well. Like you said, they seem to have a hell of a lot of coins, and if walls don't scare the crowd anymore, they might resort to flash dumps.
yeah, this is a stand down/off. i don't recall any of these big walls executing a flash dump as you say. thus again, i think they are blocking walls. but you're right, their game is coming to a close so they'll have to change strategy.
The other question is who are they and where did they get all these coins that they don't mind dumping at a "discount".
take it down...
I'm getting really sick of these dudes.
it's really quite fascinating price action, or inaction, one might say.
to my mind, they're blocking walls. someone needs to keep the price down. but yeah, they seem to have an endless supply of coins. the good news is that the buyers are getting bolder and buying up everything right up to the edge of the large ask walls. the spread, instead of increasing, is decreasing as buyers get more comfortable knowing that the ask walls aren't going to suddenly market sell and wipe out the bid side. buyers are slowly eating them away and it's just a matter of time.
The manipulators must react to the change in buyer sentiment if they're going to continue their game. If you can see the change, then they can as well. Like you said, they seem to have a hell of a lot of coins, and if walls don't scare the crowd anymore, they might resort to flash dumps.
yeah, this is a stand down/off. i don't recall any of these big walls executing a flash dump as you say. thus again, i think they are blocking walls. but you're right, their game is coming to a close so they'll have to change strategy.
take it down...
I'm getting really sick of these dudes.
it's really quite fascinating price action, or inaction, one might say.
to my mind, they're blocking walls. someone needs to keep the price down. but yeah, they seem to have an endless supply of coins. the good news is that the buyers are getting bolder and buying up everything right up to the edge of the large ask walls. the spread, instead of increasing, is decreasing as buyers get more comfortable knowing that the ask walls aren't going to suddenly market sell and wipe out the bid side. buyers are slowly eating them away and it's just a matter of time.
Yup +1
I was thinking the same, these walls don't seem to phase us anymore.
The boy has cried wolf time and time again and the gig is almost up!
if i were a little guy and actually wanted to sell, instead of cutting in front of the large ask wall, i'd get behind them by a few dollars. b/c to me, the large ask walls don't really want to sell and if they get wiped out or pull their large ask walls, the price should suddenly shoot up those few dollars and the real little seller would get a better price.
take it down...
I'm getting really sick of these dudes.
it's really quite fascinating price action, or inaction, one might say.
to my mind, they're blocking walls. someone needs to keep the price down. but yeah, they seem to have an endless supply of coins. the good news is that the buyers are getting bolder and buying up everything right up to the edge of the large ask walls. the spread, instead of increasing, is decreasing as buyers get more comfortable knowing that the ask walls aren't going to suddenly market sell and wipe out the bid side. buyers are slowly eating them away and it's just a matter of time.
The manipulators must react to the change in buyer sentiment if they're going to continue their game. If you can see the change, then they can as well. Like you said, they seem to have a hell of a lot of coins, and if walls don't scare the crowd anymore, they might resort to flash dumps.
take it down...
I'm getting really sick of these dudes.
it's really quite fascinating price action, or inaction, one might say.
to my mind, they're blocking walls. someone needs to keep the price down. but yeah, they seem to have an endless supply of coins. the good news is that the buyers are getting bolder and buying up everything right up to the edge of the large ask walls. the spread, instead of increasing, is decreasing as buyers get more comfortable knowing that the ask walls aren't going to suddenly market sell and wipe out the bid side. buyers are slowly eating them away and it's just a matter of time.
take it down...
I'm getting really sick of these dudes.
take it down...
...
What gets me about his comments is even in the field of mainstream economics the utility of bitcoin should be apparent. Cyperdoc linked to a paper a while ago (couldn't find it) where a FED board member referred to fiat money as a historic "technical invention".
My initial response to this "technical invention" comment was very negative. I thought it was absurd to refer to fiat as a technology. But the more I thought about it the more it started to make sense. Bitcoin people talk about money as a ledger, and if you compare central bank fiat to physical gold, then in many ways it is easier to transact in and does function as a better ledger. Fiat's core failing is there is no limit on that ledger similar to what gold has, but the ability to transact in the "fiat ledger" is much easier than in the "physical gold ledger". From that perspective fiat is superior to gold. I never understood this until reading that "technical invention" comment.
So if mainstream economists see fiat money as a "technical invention" that has more utility over gold by being a ledger that is easier to transact in, then they should be able to see bitcoin as a superior "technical invention" since it has more utility over fiat by being a ledger that is even more easier to transact in (i.e. programmable money).
The fact that mainstream economists don't, makes me believe that either: a) they are ignoramus who don't understand their own field or b) are paid shills.
What gets me about his comments is even in the field of mainstream economics the utility of bitcoin should be apparent. Cyperdoc linked to a paper a while ago (couldn't find it) where a FED board member referred to fiat money as a historic "technical invention".
My initial response to this "technical invention" comment was very negative. I thought it was absurd to refer to fiat as a technology. But the more I thought about it the more it started to make sense. Bitcoin people talk about money as a ledger, and if you compare central bank fiat to physical gold, then in many ways it is easier to transact in and does function as a better ledger. Fiat's core failing is there is no limit on that ledger similar to what gold has, but the ability to transact in the "fiat ledger" is much easier than in the "physical gold ledger". From that perspective fiat is superior to gold. I never understood this until reading that "technical invention" comment.
So if mainstream economists see fiat money as a "technical invention" that has more utility over gold by being a ledger that is easier to transact in, then they should be able to see bitcoin as a superior "technical invention" since it has more utility over fiat by being a ledger that is even more easier to transact in (i.e. programmable money).
The fact that mainstream economists don't, makes me believe that either: a) they are ignoramus who don't understand their own field or b) are paid shills.
It's the "Money is Memory" argument that most resonated with me. Bank accounts, Rai stones, sea-shells, redeemable paper certificates, tally sticks, fiat paper notes, and handing each other chunks of metal are all just ways to keep record of how much value one person/entity has contributed to another. Then, yeah, it's natural to realize that the mechanism (what we call "money") by which we do said accounting is a technology. And bitcoin is the absolute best at satisfying the core function of money as global, instant, cheap-to-use, immutable memory.
Here's the Fed paper I think you're referring to: Money is Memory (pdf) (Kocherlakota, 1996)
And here's the corresponding bitcoin paper: Bitcoin is Memory (Luther, Olson, 2013)
oh yes, dismantling 1809 BTC ask wall @Bitfinex
Krugman serves the ruling class who derive their wealth and lifestyle from their ability to be the first spenders of newly-printed money.
Of course he's never going to acknowledge that Bitcoin's limited supply is what makes it superior - his job is to help keep the hoi polloi ignorant of how they are being robbed.
The job of an economist is to cloak theft in the mantle of science to reduce the cost of keeping the masses compliant.
Of course he's never going to acknowledge that Bitcoin's limited supply is what makes it superior - his job is to help keep the hoi polloi ignorant of how they are being robbed.
The job of an economist is to cloak theft in the mantle of science to reduce the cost of keeping the masses compliant.
Love summary, if there is one thing I wish I understood when I left university it is the above.
Just knowing this explain why big company away aquifer competition or innovation instead of developing it, they spend new money per inflation and profit post inflation.
This kills the profitability of small businesses that operate on a cash positive basis, there strength - no debt becomes there weakness.
times are changing.
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