Topic: Goose20 outstanding Loan - page 2. (Read 1071 times)

@yahoo - well you obviously haven't read this whole thread, so thanks a bunch for your effort. No need to comment if you can't be bothered to read the thread.

I have communicated with zazarb the whole time. And the whole time until recently making repayments. I had negotiated with zazarb, that is, that I'd continue to make repayments. But i can't afford it at the moment,  my little boy just started school - so yeah I choose to buy his uniform and books etc as my priority at the moment.

"If you can't afford repayment then just say so" -> i have, many times. Oh yeah that's right, you haven't read the thread.

"failed to handle this properly."  Ummm, how would you have handled this?

"Users are jumping on the "Bandwagon" due to your attitude of the situation." What attitude? I have acknowledged i still owe a portion of the loan.  I'm just saying i haven't scammed zazarb.

"If he never receives his money,". Well never hasn't arrived yet has it.

"then they would not be doing their duty as DT." DT members have no duty to do anything.

"the price of bitcoin got too high and you just cannot afford to repay. That's noone's fault". Yep, TOTALLY agree.....hang on, oh its my fault -> Sorry in that case.

"Or you could speak with zazarb about making some sort of payment arrangement?" How do you know there's not anything going on in the background?

Yahoo, you are an honest guy and are trustworthy. I see you have taken out loans from zazarb too. Through 'noone's fault' as you put it, the price of btc skyrockets while you have a loan with zazarb  (hypothetically). You now owe him $10k for what was a $750 equivalent loan. You explain your situation to zazarb and ask him to take all things into perspective -> he proceeds to open a scam accusation against you, a honest and trustworthy guy.

Q. How would you feel? What would you do now?
Please please provide me an answer, I'm sincerely stuck on this. Please don't chicken out on the question as others have and simply state 'pay the loan'.

As someone with credibility around here, try not to jump on the bandwagon. I'm glad you've checked this thread as i know you are sensible. I don't categorise you as part of the mob group, so i want to hear you out.

Cheers

Edit: please see also my next post to timerland for bit of extra context.

Cheers again

Your best chance here is probably to negotiate with zazarb. Otherwise this scam accusation is probably going to go on forever.

If you can't afford repayment then just say so, instead of going on with excuses of bitcoin being too high or whatever.

Why didn't you just take out a loan fixed in USD if you didn't want to pay off the loan in BTC? Even get a cash advance from your bank/credit card if that's the case. Your deal with zazarb doesn't say anything about the loan being in USD whatsoever.

As yahoo said, speak with zazarb, see if he could offer to lock the repayment amount in fiat now, since bitcoin is quite low at the moment. Or discuss whether you could go on a payment plan without interest for a while.

When you noticed bitcoin was on the rise, why didn't you approach zazarb with a different solution? I have had many deals with the man and he has always been fair.

You acknowledge you borrowed xx amount of bitcoin, you also acknowledge you still owe a portion of that bitcoin. I think all of this doesn't come to light had you approached zazarb way earlier. He only opened this scam accusation because you have failed to keep communication, failed to repay the outstanding portion, failed to handle this properly. Users are jumping on the "Bandwagon" due to your attitude of the situation.

If he never receives his money, how is this NOT a scam accusation? Your excuse of you just cannot afford it, does not excuse this from being a "scam accusation". Until he has his money it is a scam. The fiat number does not matter in this case as you borrowed bitcoin and agreed to repay bitcoin.

I also do not feel like the Mob is after you either. The DT members are just protecting the rest of the community. You owe a guy money and there's no reason you should not feel some sort of pressure to pay. That being the negative trust you have been given. If they just left you alone to go on about your daily activities without warning the rest of the community you are a bad loan, then they would not be doing their duty as DT.

No matter what argument you present here you are a bad loan man. I'm not trying to be an asshole here but as I read it, the price of bitcoin got too high and you just cannot afford to repay. That's noone's fault here except yours and the terms you agreed to in your loans.

Maybe you have some skills and can offer services to the community to try and get the loan repaid? Or you could speak with zazarb about making some sort of payment arrangement?

"
If you had paid the due amount in December than zazarb could have profited a good amount of money (BTC0.195 * $19k = $3,700). But if you pay just right now than zazarb already lost $2100+.

I showed the USD profit & loss of zazarbs' because you are calculating in USD, whereas it should not be the case of USD term.

I'm wondering why you didn't take the opportunity in recent days to buy the BTC when it was fallen below $6k? In my opinion, that was your golden chance and you missed that."



Hi akamit,

Thank you for joining the discussion.

You are calculating things all wrong – even though I know you are just trying to provide an example. You are assuming he would have traded and picked the top of the market.

BTW, the loan was due in May 2017 – I kept making part payments until Nov/Dec when the price of btc got way too high and I could not afford to make a payment.

I will provide another way to hypothetically calculate what you’ve calculated, but that all doesn’t matter because no one knows what zazarb would have done with his btc, not even zazarb himself, unless of course he always keeps it in btc and never exchanges to and from fiat. In which case 1 btc is always 1 btc and he hasn’t lost anything at all should this all get sorted.

So people should STOP saying look at how much money zazarb has lost. Those people should make up their minds and stop swapping back and forth between btc is btc and then referring to profit/loss in fiat terms.

But please understand, I am not saying that I do not have a portion of the loan outstanding (not disagreeing with that), I am just saying I am NOT a scammer and have NEVER been dishonest with zazarb or anyone else.

This is not a scam accusation despite zazarb putting it into this section, but a gathering of the usual mob to bully. Scam accusations and negative trust shouldn’t be used to resolve business issues unless there is actual scamming or dishonesty going on – otherwise it is just an abuse of the system. And just because a handful of people on here jump on the bandwagon, a quick review of those people’s feedback ratings given and received versus mine will quickly put things into perspective to anyone with any grey matter between their ears. So this specific group are in no way this ‘community’.

So, back to the point of another way to hypothetically calculate what you’ve calculated.

Lets say zazarb hypothetically exchanges his btc back to fiat each time it is received. i.e he is not a trader and not looking to pick the top of the market to sell or the bottom of the market to buy.

He provides a 0.62btc loan or $750.
He expects a 0.65btc repayment or ~$780.

If the repayment is made on time he receives his 0.65btc and immediately exchanges it to fiat and gets ~$780.

All good right. But…, the customer is actually late on repayment in full. The customer makes part repayments instead over a period of many months to the total amount of 0.455btc.

If zazarb exchanges the btc each time it is received, he gets a total of ~$1,830 (250%+).

Looking at it this way, he is way in front.

NOW I am just stating the above as a HYPOTHETICAL, so people stop referring things back to fiat if their stance is the loan was in btc and btc must be paid back. Zazarb himself, you, and others in this thread have all referred to how much money he has potentially lost, at the same time as saying the loan was in btc.

Lastly, zazarb is accusing me of scamming 0.46btc – it all includes continued interest. I have never asked for, and he has never offered, a discount or reduction.

People can comment all they like, but zazarb knows that I am not a scammer, and I know I am not a scammer. And this is a business issue between zazarb and I. I choose to get a loan, so I need to deal with this from my end. He choose to get into the lending business, so he needs to deal with that from his end, not go crying to the bullies in the school yard every time there is a hiccup.

When people comment on here, I give them the courtesy and respond. I treat their opinions with respect, and I have treated everyone fairly. I have not received the same treatment in return: having been called a scammer, been called pathetic, been splashed in red, had the finger pointed at, and people rudely not responding to questions asked of them.

akamit, sorry if some on this post sounds like I am frustrated with you, I am not. Your post is one of the more fair and reasonable ones.

Cheers

Not sure if Victoria/NSW are still on daylight savings, but this is interesting:  Archive: http://archive.is/VOFfj


goose20 went offline at one minute to midnight AEST.

Respect to KWH for his efforts and mature replies.

@goose20
There is no doubt that you were one of the trusted members here until zazarb case. If you don't solve this case then you will remain as scammer forever.

In order to solve the case, at first, you have to consider the fact that the loan term was in BTC but not in USD. KWH already tried to make you understand about this fact.
You are just considering your own perspective and trying to force that to all other members. But try to see from zazarb's perspective and calculate zazarb's loss.

As far I have understood that the loan repayment amount was BTC0.65 and you paid back BTC0.455 until December 2017. So the due amount is BTC0.195, right? (Ref post #2)

If you had paid the due amount in December than zazarb could have profited a good amount of money (BTC0.195 * $19k = $3,700). But if you pay just right now than zazarb already lost $2100+.

I showed the USD profit & loss of zazarbs' because you are calculating in USD, whereas it should not be the case of USD term. You are just disagreeing with the "agreement" made during loan procedure.

I can feel your pain, I may felt the same, but the agreement is agreement and it cannot be changed at any cost. If it can be changed from one party, then what is the reason of "agreement"?

The only way you can solve this case is negotiating with zazarb, ask him for time, ask him to lower the due. If you ask for the time then don't forget about BTC price rise again, you already got caught once.

I'm wondering why you didn't take the opportunity in recent days to buy the BTC when it was fallen below $6k? In my opinion, that was your golden chance and you missed that.
What will you do if BTC price goes back to Everest again?

As far I read out the first page and if I didn't miss anything (so many big posts), zazarb haven't charged you anything yet on top of the agreement. Don't you think it is enough what zazarb did.

I hope you guys will come to a negotiation to end this case soon.

@goose20 are you still think that I left you unfair and unwarranted feedback?
Even when the community has the opposite opinion?
And what are your further plans? You will  gone dark?

it already goes to offtopic.
You are probably far away from the life of this forum, I am talking about what is currently rather than what should be your opinion,
It has long been told by Theymos that being in DT , not mean that user trusted, that means that his feedback are accurate. There is not one example, when user scamed and already tagged in red but still belong to DT.


edit:


Of course its you choice! You just do not want it , you want to be smarter than others.
And it is not empty words, because :

You claimed that waiting 6000 usd tax return.(with proof)


And You claimed that can spare 500-1000usd per month:

Sorry no, there is no function for DT members. They should go about their business as everyone else. There is no duty on them to do anything. Some just think it's their duty. They should definitely not allow themselves to be used as proxies for non-DT members. It has always been recommended that forum members maintain their own trust lists.

I actually can't believe i just read that from you. You've been here a long time.

Cheers

You never asked for discount, because yourself always set interest! And I always agreed, until end of July , when hard fork had to happen, and I request to repay in full,(Loans term was until 27th July)  I missed hard fork, you refuse pay compensation and penalty for later repayment and again set percent your own choice, and I was forced to agreed again.


Do you hear yourself what you talking?


And what other function does the being in DT? Tagging, user whose behavior is inappropriate. And this is not an achievement, it is a duty to help clear forum.

Zazarb, where have i asked you to be exempt? I've never even asked you ever for a discount.

Other than the initial loan requests on your thread, for all our loans, all of our dealings have been via PM. For months you accepted interest only or part principal repayments as i continued to make payments to you. Then come November with the price of btc very high, and Christmas being the following month, i informed you i couldn't afford repayments, and I'd see how things were looking after the holiday period in January.

You recently contact me and i state the btc price is higher than before and i cannot afford to make repayments. You state in that case you'll open a scam accusation -> and here we are. BUT, you know i have not done anything to scam you.

So you using this scam accusation section and asking DT members to come to this thread to tag me red is a low act. Yes, there are cowboys on this forum that like to throw red around, but this is a business deal between you and i with no scamming or dishonesty being involved. Hiccups happen in business through no fault sometimes.

People here pointing fingers and saying 'repay the loan', as if being able to afford to pay something is a choice - what the hell. I cannot afford it.

Cheers

19th  October(last payment), somewhere celebrate Christmas? You said that need money to gift , you priority family needs, this  honest behavior against Lender , when you later 3-4 month with repayment?

Next you already defame me! where you logic? why I not accuse you public when btc price was 19k in Dec. or  15-12k in Jan.? I do not disturbed you at all times that you set me, I awaited  whole January, and only than I pm'ed you. Public accusation was only posted when you refuse to pay me at all.



#Where you found feedback in red? I want see also.

#What kind of nonsense? How btc fail related to public scam accusation?

#Are you my accountant?

#365% interest ? where did you get that number? usual I charge 7-10% per month, you have exclusive condition and paid only 4-6%

#Within almost three years of activity, my service currently have around 7BTC(without interest) outstanding/default loan.

I do not carry bookkeeping, but I doubt very much that this service is profitable at all.

Even I am in profit in my service , that it do not exempt you from obligation, among other things it would be unfair to all the others  borrowers, who paying honestly.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that goose20 is in Melbourne Australia.

I don't have anything in my notes to suggest goose20 uses any other UID's, but if I hear anything, I'll pass it along.

If the definition of "scamming" was someone not fulfilling contract terms, then that is exactly what you're doing here. But tbh I wouldn't call you a scammer yet. You're still in contact with the lender, which is the least you can do.

I said you missed the original repayment date, and extended the loan. If you paid the BTC as agreed, last year in March, then none of this would have happened. By requesting extensions you're acknowledging that the volatility of bitcoin is taken into account for.

This is a bitcoin forum for a reason. I don't think that it's fair to say that everyone keeps referring back to fiat in terms of bitcoin. You shouldn't have taken out the loan if you couldn't deal with the volatility of it. Plus, isn't margin trading all about volatility of bitcoin/altcoins anyways?

Repay the loan. I think that your reputation is on the line here, and with BTC price being at basically its lowest since like 4 months, you should be getting a good discount already if you do keep everything in fiat instead of BTC. Unless of course you negotiate with zazarb something.

Vod, where exactly have i said that?

All I've said is that i cannot afford the repayment currently due to the high price of btc.

And that turns into a scam accusation.

And i say wtf, i have never ever scammed.

And your feedback would be more appropriate and accurate if it was neutral and said "has not fully repaid a loan yet...", as I have not gone dark.

Cheers

Well, YOU unilaterally decided the loan did not need to be repaid because it was too expensive.

You can either pay the loan back, or abandon the account because you didn't know what you were doing.  :/

You act like Zazarb took a loan from you or you now get to change the terms because you got burned by rising prices. Incredible.
There is only the 1 issue: Your loan. Nothing else.
It's your rep to burn.

Wow. I AM NOT playing a blame excuse game. YOU ARE.

All i am saying is that there has been NO dishonesty here. There has been NO scamming here.

Why even say 'he could have sold the btc for a nice profit'? That just proves what i am saying - the reality is EVERYTHING btc related is referenced back to $$'s. And currently i cannot afford the $$ to buy the btc because it is much higher than when the loan was taken out. Next week it could fall to $1000 again and all of this drama was for nothing as i could then afford to repay.

Does zazarb pay you at all? I write a very long and detailed post to you explaining things, and you just respond with a simple paragraph referring to blame/excuse. Can you not see deeper here?

Cheers

The "case" is you not fulfilling your loan agreement. Nothing else. No hurt feelings, retaliatory feedback, BTC rising.....all excuses. Deal with your loan.

Hi pinkman,

Thank you for adding to this discussion.

Thank you further for your offer to help. But i would like zazarb and i to sort this. It has been dealt with in private for months.

Thank you the most for having the insight and common sense to see that this matter is not a scam and should not be a scam accusation. That i appreciate sincerely. Its so easy for people to jump on the red bandwagon, but its that little be harder to look deeper and see what teally is the case.

Cheers