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Topic: Got me a Kill-a-watt and some 7970's..... (Read 4874 times)

hero member
Activity: 642
Merit: 500
March 30, 2012, 02:11:11 PM
#49
They were running about 85c on air. So pretty warm. Went to about 40c on water. The fans do count as power savings in my case too. I already had the cpu watercooled and just add my gpu's to the same loop. No extra pumps, fans or anything.
Ah.  Yeah.  That's pretty hot.  Smiley  Dropping 40-50C will certainly save a good chunk of power.  Cheesy
full member
Activity: 131
Merit: 100
The power savings is substantial, but it's certainly not 40 watts per card (unless you were running the cards very hot on air in the first place).  My water cooled 7970 machine saves about 27 watts (DC) per card (at 36-37c).  Keep in mind that some of the apparent power savings is simply from not having fans on the cards though.  Some of this power to remove the heat gets consumed by the pump and radiator fans.

They were running about 85c on air. So pretty warm. Went to about 40c on water. The fans do count as power savings in my case too. I already had the cpu watercooled and just add my gpu's to the same loop. No extra pumps, fans or anything.
hero member
Activity: 642
Merit: 500
This is interesting to note. So as processes get smaller and smaller, power usage will fluctuate more and more widely based on temperature. All the more reason to have good cooling.
It definitely seems that this is the case.  Even more interesting is the effect this causes when using fans.  If I let the fans go too far beyond the GPU's sweet spot, I actually have to use a similar or higher fan speed to keep the GPU *hotter* (because of the additional wattage).

You certainly hit a "point of no return" though where it costs more energy to spin the fans faster vs the energy you'd save from keeping the chip (and VRMs?) cooler.


Yep. Water FTW. About a 40 watt saving per card by going to water for my 7970's.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.683755
The power savings are substantial, but it's certainly not 40 watts per card (unless you were running the cards very hot on air in the first place).  My water cooled 7970 machine saves about 27 watts (DC) per card (at 36-37c).  Keep in mind that some of the apparent power savings is simply from not having fans on the cards though.  Some of this power to remove the heat gets consumed by the pump and radiator fans.
full member
Activity: 131
Merit: 100
My first 7970 came with a number of issues while booting. I had it RMA'd, the new card that just arrived reaches 750 MH/s (1225MHz core, 1375 ram, 1.07 V, 168A) with sensor readings (HWiNFO64) indicate I am pulling 193 watts (Core + RAM).  My first card would already be over 220 watts at these settings, seems either software improved or hardware improved, I used the same drivers from the end of Feb, so probably hardware changed?

This is probably just from leakage.  Each of the cards are going to have a GPU that is "binned" differently.  I've found on my rigs that as soon as I let the temps go much further than 68C, power consumption starts climbing pretty heavily (additional leakage from heat).  If I let the cards in one of my 4 card rigs run at 74-75C, power consumption goes up by almost 100W at the wall.  My 6970s/6870s/5870s/5970s don't do this until they get very hot (80C or above).
This is interesting to note. So as processes get smaller and smaller, power usage will fluctuate more and more widely based on temperature. All the more reason to have good cooling.

Yep. Water FTW. About a 40 watt saving per card by going to water for my 7970's.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.683755
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
My first 7970 came with a number of issues while booting. I had it RMA'd, the new card that just arrived reaches 750 MH/s (1225MHz core, 1375 ram, 1.07 V, 168A) with sensor readings (HWiNFO64) indicate I am pulling 193 watts (Core + RAM).  My first card would already be over 220 watts at these settings, seems either software improved or hardware improved, I used the same drivers from the end of Feb, so probably hardware changed?

This is probably just from leakage.  Each of the cards are going to have a GPU that is "binned" differently.  I've found on my rigs that as soon as I let the temps go much further than 68C, power consumption starts climbing pretty heavily (additional leakage from heat).  If I let the cards in one of my 4 card rigs run at 74-75C, power consumption goes up by almost 100W at the wall.  My 6970s/6870s/5870s/5970s don't do this until they get very hot (80C or above).
This is interesting to note. So as processes get smaller and smaller, power usage will fluctuate more and more widely based on temperature. All the more reason to have good cooling.
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1000


What... That would mean each 7970 would be getting 825mh... I think you meant 5...

Your absolutely correct...  ooopps  sorry bout that.

My thoughts started with the PSU.  I have a 1250 seasonic pushing 4 of the cards, and then I seen the Mh number and thought he didn't have the updated code.



You mean 5.

I also have mine undervolted to run much cooler.


no i meant 4.   the rig has 5 cards, but the seasonic is only on 4 of them. I have another psu powering the 5th card of this mobo and a 5th card on another

10 7970's   2 seasonic 1250  1 seasonic 650

hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Coin Generator


What... That would mean each 7970 would be getting 825mh... I think you meant 5...

Your absolutely correct...  ooopps  sorry bout that.

My thoughts started with the PSU.  I have a 1250 seasonic pushing 4 of the cards, and then I seen the Mh number and thought he didn't have the updated code.



You mean 5.

I also have mine undervolted to run much cooler.
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1000


What... That would mean each 7970 would be getting 825mh... I think you meant 5...

Your absolutely correct...  ooopps  sorry bout that.

My thoughts started with the PSU.  I have a 1250 seasonic pushing 4 of the cards, and then I seen the Mh number and thought he didn't have the updated code.

hero member
Activity: 642
Merit: 500
My first 7970 came with a number of issues while booting. I had it RMA'd, the new card that just arrived reaches 750 MH/s (1225MHz core, 1375 ram, 1.07 V, 168A) with sensor readings (HWiNFO64) indicate I am pulling 193 watts (Core + RAM).  My first card would already be over 220 watts at these settings, seems either software improved or hardware improved, I used the same drivers from the end of Feb, so probably hardware changed?

This is probably just from leakage.  Each of the cards are going to have a GPU that is "binned" differently.  I've found on my rigs that as soon as I let the temps go much further than 68C, power consumption starts climbing pretty heavily (additional leakage from heat).  If I let the cards in one of my 4 card rigs run at 74-75C, power consumption goes up by almost 100W at the wall.  My 6970s/6870s/5870s/5970s don't do this until they get very hot (80C or above).
full member
Activity: 131
Merit: 100
currently running 4x 7970s @ 925 / 150 @ 1.00v

850W at the wall. This system has the Big Bang Marshall and i7 2600k and 1300w CM Hybrid

I will OC them to 1125 and will let you guys know the power Cheesy

Let me guess, it will be 950W.

close.

1125 / 150 @ 1.05V

1050W with 2600k @ 5.0Ghz

2700mh/sec

9.6 Amps

Not bad! I can have 2 of these rigs running in my dorm room without tripping the wire!

4 7970's at 1125 should be getting over 3300Mh

Code:
cgminer version 2.2.6 - Started: [March 28, 2012, 10:08 pm]    Rig:miner17
(5s):3325.37  (avg): 3261.12 Mh/s  |    H: 112.6  Q:70001   A:67549   R:439   HW:0   E:?%   U:44.94/m
TQ:?   ST:9   SS:?   DW:394   NB:150   LW:0   GF:41   RF:3
Connected to http://gpumax.com:8332 with LP as user ?
Value:
GPU 0: 72.0C 2692RPM 44% 116 | 665.2/652.5Mh/s | 99% | 1120Mhz 1000Mhz 1.17V A:13729 R:90 HW:0 U:9.13/m I: 9
GPU 1: 74.0C 2281RPM 39% 113 | 665.3/652.5Mh/s | 99% | 1120Mhz 1000Mhz 1.17V A:13334 R:92 HW:0 U:8.87/m I: 9
GPU 2: 73.0C 2064RPM 36% 109 | 665.4/652.5Mh/s | 99% | 1120Mhz 1000Mhz 1.17V A:13391 R:84 HW:0 U:8.91/m I: 9
GPU 3: 73.0C 2156RPM 36% 109 | 664.3/651.4Mh/s | 99% | 1120Mhz 1000Mhz 1.17V A:13583 R:98 HW:0 U:9.04/m I: 9
GPU 4: 74.0C 2353RPM 42% 116 | 665.2/652.3Mh/s | 99% | 1120Mhz 1000Mhz 1.17V A:13512 R:75 HW:0 U:8.99/m I: 9

What... That would mean each 7970 would be getting 825mh... I think you meant 5...
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1000
currently running 4x 7970s @ 925 / 150 @ 1.00v

850W at the wall. This system has the Big Bang Marshall and i7 2600k and 1300w CM Hybrid

I will OC them to 1125 and will let you guys know the power Cheesy

Let me guess, it will be 950W.

close.

1125 / 150 @ 1.05V

1050W with 2600k @ 5.0Ghz

2700mh/sec

9.6 Amps

Not bad! I can have 2 of these rigs running in my dorm room without tripping the wire!

4 7970's at 1125 should be getting over 3300Mh

Code:
cgminer version 2.2.6 - Started: [March 28, 2012, 10:08 pm]    Rig:miner17
(5s):3325.37  (avg): 3261.12 Mh/s  |    H: 112.6  Q:70001   A:67549   R:439   HW:0   E:?%   U:44.94/m
TQ:?   ST:9   SS:?   DW:394   NB:150   LW:0   GF:41   RF:3
Connected to http://gpumax.com:8332 with LP as user ?
Value:
GPU 0: 72.0C 2692RPM 44% 116 | 665.2/652.5Mh/s | 99% | 1120Mhz 1000Mhz 1.17V A:13729 R:90 HW:0 U:9.13/m I: 9
GPU 1: 74.0C 2281RPM 39% 113 | 665.3/652.5Mh/s | 99% | 1120Mhz 1000Mhz 1.17V A:13334 R:92 HW:0 U:8.87/m I: 9
GPU 2: 73.0C 2064RPM 36% 109 | 665.4/652.5Mh/s | 99% | 1120Mhz 1000Mhz 1.17V A:13391 R:84 HW:0 U:8.91/m I: 9
GPU 3: 73.0C 2156RPM 36% 109 | 664.3/651.4Mh/s | 99% | 1120Mhz 1000Mhz 1.17V A:13583 R:98 HW:0 U:9.04/m I: 9
GPU 4: 74.0C 2353RPM 42% 116 | 665.2/652.3Mh/s | 99% | 1120Mhz 1000Mhz 1.17V A:13512 R:75 HW:0 U:8.99/m I: 9
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Coin Generator
currently running 4x 7970s @ 925 / 150 @ 1.00v

850W at the wall. This system has the Big Bang Marshall and i7 2600k and 1300w CM Hybrid

I will OC them to 1125 and will let you guys know the power Cheesy

Let me guess, it will be 950W.

close.

1125 / 150 @ 1.05V

1050W with 2600k @ 5.0Ghz

2700mh/sec

9.6 Amps

Not bad! I can have 2 of these rigs running in my dorm room without tripping the wire!
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Coin Generator
currently running 4x 7970s @ 925 / 150 @ 1.00v

850W at the wall. This system has the Big Bang Marshall and i7 2600k and 1300w CM Hybrid

I will OC them to 1125 and will let you guys know the power Cheesy
mrb
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1028
You forget that the 80 Plus standard does not guarantee efficiency below 20% load. Which is why I criticize idle measurements at the wall so much as they are likely to be below 20% load.
sr. member
Activity: 348
Merit: 250
Here is a fictitious system in idle/load conditions demonstrating my point that cards can draw more than what the kill-a-watt difference shows:

Idle: 130W at the wall, power supply outputs 95W (73% efficient) = 15W to the video card + 80W to the rest of the system
Load: 200W at the wall, power supply outputs 176W (88% efficient) = 96W to the video card + 80W to the rest of the system

yochdog would conclude from the kill-a-watt readings that the card under load is drawing at most an extra 70W (200-130), but in fact, it is drawing an extra 81W (96-15). This is why subtracting the idle from the load wattage at the wall is not as accurate as you all seem to think.

At the very least, if a kill-a-watt is all you have, I suggest you:
- publish your power supply specs to look up the energy efficiency curve at different loads
- measure "idle" condition with the card physically removed from the system

While I get your desire to have 100% accurate info, I don't fully agree that it is more useful.

1- virtually everyone is going to be running mining rigs on computer power supplies, which are never 100% efficient

2- knowing the actual real world power usage from the wall is very useful for calculating cost of mining, while knowing the exact power usage from the power supply is an interesting mental exercise it doesn't actually benefit anyone who is merely trying to do a cost/benefits analysis.

3- most miners use 80+ certified power supplies, if not 80+ silver or greater spec.  The difference between actual power usage and exact power usage is going to be less than you indicate.  For example, 80+ silver gets between 85% and 88% efficiency guaranteed, a 3% difference even on a 1000W scale is only 30W and not really a huge inaccuracy.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
My first 7970 came with a number of issues while booting. I had it RMA'd, the new card that just arrived reaches 750 MH/s (1225MHz core, 1375 ram, 1.07 V, 168A) with sensor readings (HWiNFO64) indicate I am pulling 193 watts (Core + RAM).  My first card would already be over 220 watts at these settings, seems either software improved or hardware improved, I used the same drivers from the end of Feb, so probably hardware changed?

How accurate are the GPU/CPU sensor readings by GPU-Z or HWiNFO64?  Would using a multimeter carefully to measure PCIE and all other power connectors on system be more accurate than onboard sensors or KILL A WATT?
mrb
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1028
Here is a fictitious system in idle/load conditions demonstrating my point that cards can draw more than what the kill-a-watt difference shows:

Idle: 130W at the wall, power supply outputs 95W (73% efficient) = 15W to the video card + 80W to the rest of the system
Load: 200W at the wall, power supply outputs 176W (88% efficient) = 96W to the video card + 80W to the rest of the system

yochdog would conclude from the kill-a-watt readings that the card under load is drawing at most an extra 70W (200-130), but in fact, it is drawing an extra 81W (96-15). This is why subtracting the idle from the load wattage at the wall is not as accurate as you all seem to think.

At the very least, if a kill-a-watt is all you have, I suggest you:
- publish your power supply specs to look up the energy efficiency curve at different loads
- measure "idle" condition with the card physically removed from the system
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
We just need to get linux to allow downclocking memory beyond 150 Mhz  Angry

My 4x7970 rigs run about 1060 W (1040 is more correct with 2 Delta screamer fans not running).

2.5 Gh/s @ 1040 = So So...

Cards are running at 1050/900 and 625 Mh/s each...
hero member
Activity: 642
Merit: 500
I disagree for exactly the same reasons.

2.62 Mh/J is meaningless as it's not comparing like-for-like, you're adding in the unknown variable of the system, which will be vastly different (as you noted) system to system.

3.74 Mh/J is meaningful, as other people, who wish to compare their values, can use this number by factoring out their own baseline system power.


+1.  People are going to have completely different motherboards, CPUs, hard drives (if any), power supplies, RAM, cooling, etc etc etc.  The most useful data is the power draw of the cards themselves.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1000
I disagree for exactly the same reasons.

2.62 Mh/J is meaningless as it's not comparing like-for-like, you're adding in the unknown variable of the system, which will be vastly different (as you noted) system to system.

3.74 Mh/J is meaningful, as other people, who wish to compare their values, can use this number by factoring out their own baseline system power.

Your argument is invalid because 3.74 Mh/J is also influenced by unknown variables, such as the efficiency of power supplies which varies with load: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2624/3

Here is a thought experiment: yochdog's load/idle power draw is 512/154 Watt. He replaces his power supply with one that is just as efficient at high loads, but more efficient at low loads, changing his measuremnts to 512/130 Watt. Suddenly his mining efficiency went down from 1340/(512-154) = 3.74 Mh/J to 1340/(512-130) = 3.51 Mh/J ! Explain to me why using a formula in which efficiency becomes worse when using better hardware components is useful?

Of course, if everybody had clamp meters, the ultimate way to measure the efficiency of a card would be to measure current at the PCIe power connectors and PCIe slot, like I demonstrated a while ago: http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42

Holy bleeping shit. 

I try to put some useful (evidently not!) information out on the forum, and MRB comes along to piss all over it because anything but his prefered stats are meaningless.

Apologies to the forum.  I wasted everyones time with a useless post. 

From now on I will only post the total power consumption of my systems, and you are all on your own deciphering what is being used where.

GOOD LUCK!! 
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