Topic: Governs are coming for traders! (Read 1201 times)

This is a fully logical and well educated guess. And, of course I agree that 2+2=5! It can't be otherwise, since 1+1=3.

Indeed. So make sure they know nothing about your assets to start with. Never complete KYC, only trade peer to peer, obfuscate your transactions through mixers or coinjoins, run your own node, self host everything, and so on.

I was putting the first three things in the list as one category under "government spying", but I take your point.

Well, since you were talking about 1984, then I'm sure you'll agree 2+2=5.

This is debatable, dear JayJuanGee   Let's not jump to conclusions.

A long while back I stated that 1+1=3 and, since nobody else posted anything after my axiom (although it's been 3.5 years since then), it's clear that what I stated is an undeniable truth  

Having this axiom in mind I am sure that we can prove, with some brainstorming, that 4=2.

#attemptingtobehelpfulaswell

I tend to agree with "almost" everything that you have to say o_e_l_e_o - however, I am puzzled by your ways of counting, if that might be a proper label for such...  

Let me attempt to parse it:

>>>>>>KYC achieves two (2) things only -

1) mass surveillance,

2) data harvesting, and

3) control on behalf of your government and

4) a variety of three letter agencies, and innocent people having their identities stolen.<<<<<<

Unless I am retarded (or missing something "deep").. the last time I checked, back in grade school,

four does not equal two (4≠2)...  


#justattemptingtobehelpful...


   

The goal is having every detailed information about everyone in stock.
You see, even if I'll say they don't have full control over crypto - apart from some minor restrictions - you would wanna agree right?? But don't you think that as long as HODLERS are made to pay a certain percentage Which is invariably proportional to Thier staked coins, the governs still got our stock on Thier finger tips?? Cus from calculating the net expenditures/ profit annually, on due percentage stat, they could value your asset and decide to take actions from there... I meannn, these are all tools to enhance Thier policies... Meanwhile in crypto, pseudonymity rules over the system. Bitcoin has turned out the largest digital exchange and I bet they'll keep trying effortlessly to break the silence.
Edit: whatever trick that's composed behind the reasons for KYCs isn't even about them... Orwell's 84 tells us all.

Uhmm, you don't like it?  well, It's actually my preferred Monica; especially when it seemed we haven't got much successful women in here ... ^{Nobody cares about the gender anyways, but does that change the fact that I'm a cat?? Rhetorical...}  

Nail on head. KYC is about mass surveillance, nothing more.

And again. I've brought this up several times before - there is absolutely zero evidence that widespread KYC prevents money laundering or aids in tracking down criminals, just as there is absolutely zero evidence that mass surveillance prevents terrorism, or any of the other stupid reasons (tHiNk Of ThE cHiLdReN) that politicians give to justify monitoring everything you do.

KYC achieves two things only - mass surveillance, data harvesting, and control on behalf of your government and a variety of three letter agencies, and innocent people having their identities stolen.

This is so true. KYC is just another method used by Big Brother for a continuous surveillance of citizen. If you like reading books, Edward Snowden's Permanent Record is a very good book on this matter.
And, for same reasons, more and more governments try to replace cash money with credit / debit cards or with CDBCs. Orwell's 1984 is not just a fiction anymore. It here, all around us.

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I always wondered: why do you always add those emojis at the end of your posts and also your name? Everybody can see the post is made by "Sandra_hakeem"  

I sometimes see no true reason for the invention of KYCs other than enhancing the - monitoring and control policy. I believe it somehow has something in affiliation with the control and influx of cash in the economy; where an individual isn't expected to own much more liquid assets than the governs.... The simple prove-course for my objection is the act - when a certain billionaire's possession was siezed by his local bank,.. even though it was released, they gave restrictions on the terminals of where, how and what those funds were utilized for.
It's one of the insane reasons that brought about the idea of cryptography; since no one is ever able to control decentralization, they're simply placing sanctions and the whole move is made political. I haven't seen much improvement on money laundering cases since the inception of KYCs ... They only keep recording cases but the point is, IT HASN'T STOPPED.

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

Thank you FP91G for this translation! It was a nice surprise. I added it to OP and also to my other topic.
Please take a look as well at the PM I sent you.

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And this is why, in the end, it'll come to this: Governs' oppression of bitcoiners may turn against them.

Governments cannot stop this bitcoin revolution but can monitor bitcoin holders and tax them every time they receive money from selling bitcoins. That is what the governments of various countries are doing and will do. That's probably what many governments are planning.

The government sees crypto as additional revenue for the country, so they need to keep an eye on crypto holders, especially bitcoin holders. And for this reason, in several countries, crypto users are asked to include a report about the sale of their crypto assets so that the government can collect taxes from crypto users.

And if the government can cooperate with the local exchange market, it will increase the revenue for the country because from there, the government can find out who the whales are from their country and monitor them directly.

my translation for the Russian board
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5451225

All this KYC nonsense is based on the idea of the Four Horsemen of Infocalypse. Which are money launderers, drug lords, terrorists and pedophiles. The idea is greatly debated by Julian Assange in his book Cypherpunks: Freedom and the Future of the Internet. Other great minds are also part of the book, such as Jacob Appelbaum (TOR developer), Andy Müller (a hacker which is a member of Chaos Computer Club (CCC)) and Jérémie Zimmermann (co-founder of La Quadrature du Net).

Governs are emphasizing that all these decisions are based on combating these four horsemen, but it's a lie. The problems determined by the horsemen of infocalypse can be mitigated with other ways, not with KYC. Besides, make sure to read also 1miau's topic Why KYC is extremely dangerous – and useless which is complementary to OP.

Well, Spanish citizens are on the breach of having to declare the crypto the hold in light of the new anti-tax fraud bill, which has been submitted to the parliament for approval.

That opens a can of worms for people with crypto, who seemingly will have to decide between keeping it quiet (and perhaps encountering large issue when selling their crypto), or coming out clear (and perhaps have issues justifying where their crypto came from to begin with).

We’ll see how it plays out, and the associated fine print, but it seems to tighten the noose around crypto holders in Spain.

I am coming back to this topic to highlight an interesting aspect related to Laurentiu Baranga, the Romanian head of AML Department (which is called here National Department for Preventing and Combating Money Laundering).

The guy is in the middle of an investigation as the prosecutors found out that he falsified his high school diploma, which is a diploma he obtained at 32 years old. According to Romanian press, the guy obtained a false highschool diploma (so excepting the fact that he obtained it at 32 yo, the diploma was also false).

After obtaining the diploma his political ascension was extraordinary. His only job until then was in a fabric where he was employed as lathe operator. In 2012, when a political party launched a regional subsidiary, this guy became the chairman. Afterwards, he went to Senate then he became the chairman of his political party for a Bucharest subsidiary. In 2011 he managed to obtain a university diploma (which was also false) and he started to recommend himself as being a sort of Ph. D. Based on this title (probably), he got a job inside the National Registry of Classified Informations.

In Sptember 2020 the Prime Minister gave him the position of chairman of the AML Department and the press started to wonder how is possible for an ex-lathe operator, with no real job until he was 41 years old, with a falsified highschool diploma obtained at age of 32, with a false university diploma, to have such important positions.

Furthermore, he obtained another bachelor diploma from another university (what a smart guy hehe) then he tried to become bachelor of even one more university.

Now the prosecutor estimate that he prejudiced the State with 640.000 RON (~ 156.000$), being aware that the amount may be much bigger. At the moment the prejudice regarding the universities is unknown.

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Long story short: bitcoiners are forced to reveal their identities and finances in front of authorities managed by this kind of people! An underclassman like hacker or andulolika becomes the head of the AML Division of a particular country then it forces crypto users to reveal their privacy. Such guys force centralized exchanges to reveal their customers data to the govern. Such guys encourages the banks to freeze accounts of any transaction that may look suspicious to them and to contact AML for all the clients which had "suspicious" transactions.

What happens in Romnia may happen to many other countries. Beware!

These are the guys running the politics, the governs and the countries. They are corrupt and they accuse crypto users of corruption, tax evasion and other crimes. They don;t have any knowledge not just about crypto, but about their very jobs, they have positions offered through nepotism, based on false diplomas and they run the countries!

It;s time to stop them. Preserve your privacy! Be anonymous! Don't allow such hypocrites to rule your lives!

Arise, Cypherpunks!

So it means all the governments are, or will do, the crack down for the bitcoin traders. They do not want traders to earn tax free money or they do not want bitcoin to grow and adapted ?
In both cases, they may caught a few traders, but they cannot stop this bitcoin revolution.

They still are, and most governments around the world are heading down this path. Everything from using Facebook, Google, Apple, etc. to collect data on their behalf, having your ISP monitor your internet activity and pass it on to them, trying to make encryption illegal or place "backdoors" in end-to-end encrypted messaging services, phone tracking, facial recognition, accessing microphones/cameras/webcams, the list is endless. Data is rapidly becoming one of the most valuable commodities on the planet, not just for monetizing but also for controlling the population.

A monitored society is an obedient society.

Thank you  as well for reading  this thread and for finding it  interesting.

Regarding "Only wallets remain to not ask for personal docs", honestly, first time I understood something else than you meant. I thought you meant something like "only wallets (aka private keys) remained to be asked (from us) by the govern". I understood now what you meant, but a story came up in my mind when I first read (and didn't understand correctly) your statement. I'll detail it below.

A piece of history: when the govern wants to hold your private keys
Although I read incorrectly what you wrote, government's intentions to hold citizens' private keys is nothing new. I don't know if wallets will ask or private info at some point - maybe some of them will. Butt I hope there will still exist alternatives.

Coming back to the govern.

Maybe many forgot, or didn’t even know, but the creator of public-key encryption was Whitfield Diffie, in 1975. And his creation was given to the people for free. The first useful application of his invention was the RSA encryption algorithm, developed later by a few brilliant cryptographs.

The public-key encryption worked almost the same way as the public / private keys work today, but its use was for encrypting private messages sent / received.

It was an era when US govern was extremely eager to track everything in people’s lives. It was obvious that the invention would be considered a national danger and so it was. NSA stated that  the respective development represents “clear risks to the national security”. The agency fought hard to hide Diffie’s invention from the public. The American publishers were threatened with years in prison if they would publish such materials, the accusation  being breaking of the law regarding the export of military weapons.

In the  end, NSA crossed any imaginable line, when it came with the idea to ask the people to allow an escrow to hold their private keys. The escrow was, of course, in government’s hands, thus it would give out all the keys whenever it was needed. Obviously, in the name of the law. For the greater purpose.

Fortunately, NSA couldn’t realize that plan. And now we all benefit.

Thank you OP for sharing your analysis so to make think more clear for all of us. Seems like Govs wants to turn exchanges into banks dedicated for Crypto. Only wallets remain to not ask for personal docs  .

I don't have exact number of exchanges "called decentralised" who forced the KYC procedure during last months of 2019. IDEX and CryptoBridge are bright exemples. Many other swap apps started forcing KYC as well, remember ShapeShift.
It's not about centralised or decentralised services. Any company is suspected to reveal/sell/lost users Data if it asks for "revealing identity official documents", and i don't think we should blame them for the consequences. Users of those services should be aware about this from day one.

Totally agree with this !

I'm genuinely curious as to how many exchanges have admitted they are reporting all relevant details and trades to the relevant governments, and how many exchanges are suspected of doing so despite not admitting it. There was obviously the very public case with Coinbase last year, and many users are now receiving letters from the IRS based on those data. I don't really follow centralized exchanges all that much so I'm not sure if this is now becoming commonplace? What about cross border?

Of course not, but if you want the second part of my quote to remain true, "the exchange and I are reporting the same numbers" then you have to provide KYC to an exchange so they can properly report things to the government on their side.  The check and balance is where I see the value in KYC.