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Topic: Governs' oppression of bitcoiners may turn against them (Read 462 times)

sr. member
Activity: 2772
Merit: 357
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
The government could make laws that requires mining firms to report, deny, or block transactions from flagged addresses. Transactions from mixers can be flagged as tainted funds and OFAC can mandate minners to report such transactions. Mixers can be banned and seized by the government claiming that they are used by criminals to promote crimes like terror financing, and drug and arms trafficking. The government can also cook up allegations against decentralized exchanges thereby restricting or criminalizing their services. There are many moves the government can take to fight privacy. Let's just enjoy privacy as it lasts.
The government will do anything to strip control away from our hands. Obviously they want the control all for themselves and their citizens having the ability to conceal that control makes them crazy. It’s not just about whether you are doing something illegal but more of are you plotting something against the government?

If you are an enemy of the state and you are able to enjoy privacy of course they would not like that and instead of hand picking who’s the enemy they just generally restrict everyone.
hero member
Activity: 462
Merit: 472
Only a natural reaction of the government. They cannot really do anything against decentralization so they try to act as lowly saboteurs. It is a desperate, impotent flail against Bitcoin and decentralization. And it won't work.

All attack vectors are centralized.  One could avoid them by simply not using centralized platforms. A bit of technical know-how on how to use decentralized services like BisQ or how to obfuscate your digital fingerprints with Monero or mixers couldn't hurt, either.
The government could make laws that requires mining firms to report, deny, or block transactions from flagged addresses. Transactions from mixers can be flagged as tainted funds and OFAC can mandate minners to report such transactions. Mixers can be banned and seized by the government claiming that they are used by criminals to promote crimes like terror financing, and drug and arms trafficking. The government can also cook up allegations against decentralized exchanges thereby restricting or criminalizing their services. There are many moves the government can take to fight privacy. Let's just enjoy privacy as it lasts.
legendary
Activity: 2030
Merit: 1643
Verified Bitcoin Hodler
Only a natural reaction of the government. They cannot really do anything against decentralization so they try to act as lowly saboteurs. It is a desperate, impotent flail against Bitcoin and decentralization. And it won't work.

All attack vectors are centralized.  One could avoid them by simply not using centralized platforms. A bit of technical know-how on how to use decentralized services like BisQ or how to obfuscate your digital fingerprints with Monero or mixers couldn't hurt, either.


sr. member
Activity: 1428
Merit: 308
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
Crypto exchanges soared and so did their users, without understanding that they are acting against Bitcoin's main principles: peer-to-peer / anonymity / pseudonymity / getting rid of middle man. New laws appeared also together with crypto exchanges, and they forced exchanges to impose KYC to their customers.
I wouldn't say that I've seen this happening a mile away but I'm aware that this is what's going to happen the moment that bitcoin reached a thousand dollars back then, the p2p feature is what a lot of Youtubers have emphasized back then when bitcoin is still at its infancy meaning that they wanted to created a currency that you trade in like fiat but this purpose didn't last long because bitcoin increased in value. Maybe if the people that got introduced into bitcoin knows how to trade p2p, we could've kept the idea of getting rid of the middle man. The sad thing is that we forgot our roots, even a lot of old bitcoiners that have been hodling for a really long time just chose to make a profit because it's the most logical thing to do when everyone's taking profit. @laszlo's story also contributed to the increase of people that see bitcoin hodling their bitcoins to death, they don't want to make the same thing that he did with his bitcoins.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 660
I stand with Palestine.
Dear GazetaBitcoin I want to translate this topic in my local language Urdu. If you allow me so confirm it I will start my work. Thanks. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
This is actually happening but i think there's a way it can get mitigated to an extent, if the user learn to go on full decentralization with handling his bitcoin by avoiding the use of the centralized exchanges through which the government can use to track him, here the asset is meant to be secured with more guaranteed safety on a decentralized exchange than a centralized one, you can run a bitvoin full node using bitcoincore, you can as well get yourself a hardware wallet to privately secure your asset and you make use of a decentralized p2p when in need for an exchange to fiat, if you can avoid centralized exchange, then you're almost close to being privately secured and don't announce yourself of your involvement in bitcoin to the public.

True. As I said in my earlier post, we are lucky to have a context offering some hands of help to those looking for anonymity and those which want to keep govern's eyes away from them:

- centralized exchanges should be avoided no matter what, for all the reasons I mentioned in OP
- decentralized exchanges are more and more; they started to become also more user friendly
- private wallets are a must, in order to be the owner of your private keys; preferably, users should choose those with open source code
- exchanges between a coin and another one should be made either through peer-to-peer transfers between users or through atomic swaps
- bank accounts should never be associated with crypto
- cash-in / cash-out anonymous crypto ATMs should be also used; they can be found through www.coinatmradar.com.

By following these easy steps we can maintain our privacy. The important part, though, is to have users willing to follow these steps and to leave behind all their unhealthy habits (using centralized exchanges, associating bank accounts with crypto accounts, giving personal information to third parties, using custodial wallets or wallets with closed source code etc.).
sr. member
Activity: 532
Merit: 390
Governs oppress bitcoiners for almost a decade now. Being aware that bitcoiners earn real fiat money from their crypto transactions, governs around the world started to extort bitcoiners, for taking away the money these people earned without having the State helping them in any way. People work, get paid for their work, but the State wants its share.

This is actually happening but i think there's a way it can get mitigated to an extent, if the user learn to go on full decentralization with handling his bitcoin by avoiding the use of the centralized exchanges through which the government can use to track him, here the asset is meant to be secured with more guaranteed safety on a decentralized exchange than a centralized one, you can run a bitvoin full node using bitcoincore, you can as well get yourself a hardware wallet to privately secure your asset and you make use of a decentralized p2p when in need for an exchange to fiat, if you can avoid centralized exchange, then you're almost close to being privately secured and don't announce yourself of your involvement in bitcoin to the public.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
I think the community especially this forum should encourage or incentivize people or things that are trying to make everyone use Bitcoin/crypto properly.A nice way to do this would be with the merit system but it seems those who could change things are finding it hard to benefit from it.
When you see people who are doing their best to help others use Bitcoin/crypto properly they should be encouraged. Let's stop encouraging or incentivizing those doing things wrongly [...]

What you proposed may be a part of the solution for resolving the problem of users which act with their eyes closed or based by greed. However, the other part of the solution consists in people, which should be willing to educate themselves. If we have 10 educative topics about Bitcoin, anonymity and how to avoid centralized exchanges but nobody reads them then there will be no positive outcome, even though the authors of those topics will get merited. Same will happen if those which keep their eyes closed or which are full of greed read those topics but take no action.

Take a look at this topic: 12 years later and people still don't know to use Bitcoin nor what it's good for. Those which appreciated it showed their appreciation. So the part of the solution proposed by you is accomplished. Furthermore, the topic was seen 408 times. Now the hard part comes: how many times was it read by users which don't know how to properly use crypto or by users which only think about getting rich over night? And, even more important, how many of them have changed their behavior after reading the topic?. -- These are the most important questions...



It's now become a lot easier to use dexes to transfer funds and cash them out; it might just be me that thinks this but dexes seem cheaper now than centralised exchanges?

Indeed, the current context is meant to favor those which are focused on their privacy and, why not, those which are dragged back on the right path. Decentralized exchanges keep appearing; wallets containing atomic swaps are developed more (two examples of such wallets are Unstoppable Wallet and AtomicDEX). There are also wallets which contain instant (and anonymous?) exchanges, such as Jaxx Liberty; however, not everybody agrees with this kind of wallets / instant exchanges. But the point is that solutions become available. As time passes more and more solutions become available for those trying to keep their privacy.

I'm not sure if there's statistics but I wonder how many dexes have been attacked (ignoring liquidity pools and focusing on only atomic swaps and manual transfers) it feels a lot safer and a lot more secure so I'd imagine it actually is.

I also don't know that but some information on this subject could be important. However, since atomic swaps become easier to reach within wallets, perhaps more users will choose them instead of decentralized exchanges... But that's just a hunch of mine.
copper member
Activity: 2856
Merit: 3071
https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory
It's now become a lot easier to use dexes to transfer funds and cash them out; it might just be me that thinks this but dexes seem cheaper now than centralised exchanges? I paid 80 cents yesterday to convert 1000 usdc to btc and immediately gained custody of those btc.

I'm not sure if there's statistics but I wonder how many dexes have been attacked (ignoring liquidity pools and focusing on only atomic swaps and manual transfers) it feels a lot safer and a lot more secure so I'd imagine it actually is.

I think the community especially this forum should encourage or incentivize people or things that are trying to make everyone use Bitcoin/crypto properly.A nice way to do this would be with the merit system

There seems to be a lot of companies that do this sort of things but not too many interacting with them imo and publicising it which is likely the reason there are less merits awarded for these activities.
Ucy
sr. member
Activity: 2576
Merit: 401
I think the community especially this forum should encourage or incentivize people or things that are trying to make everyone use Bitcoin/crypto properly.A nice way to do this would be with the merit system but it seems those who could change things are finding it hard to benefit from it.
When you see people who are doing their best to help others use Bitcoin/crypto properly they should be encouraged. Let's stop encouraging or incentivizing those doing things wrongly and you will see how quickly things change for good. Imagine having the Legendary ranks filled with just passionate and very principled Bitcoiners. The newbies and young users will be guided properly by them.
It is not easy to resist the temptation of not  following the principles Bitcoin is built on. Not easy for the weak. They would probably think "if I insist that people do the right thing, businesses that don't care will employ them with huge pay if they leave, or they will create their own altcoins/platforms that break the principles, and do things the way they want... And they will become richer than me while I remain poor for trying to do what is right". But they forgot that the ones insisting that the right things be done naturally becomes the defacto leaders as long as they practice what they preach, and they will discover their power/authority no one can disobey (or be punished) when they issue orders . You can do alot of things with that kind of power and authority, even becoming the richest in that your community if you want to... and as long as you remain principled.

It's better we operate in this space like we already have good rules that guide members/participants. Using Bitcoin/crypto properly should be part of the rules. And It is important to encourage those who follow the rules and avoid those who don't. That's how we will help the community remain on the right track and avoid the future consequences or problems you mentioned.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
Governs oppress bitcoiners for more than a decade now. Being aware that bitcoiners earn real fiat money from their crypto transactions, governs around the world started to extort bitcoiners, for taking away the money these people earned without having the State helping them in any way. People work, get paid for their work, but the State wants its share.

Oppression grew bigger and bigger as time passed. For being able to coerce people to pay, governs around the world created laws which did not exist before, trying to centralize what was meant to be decentralized. And people, in their greed, helped the State to extort them even more.

Prometheus gave fire to people, for warming up their homes and for preparing food, but people used it to fire up neighbors' houses. Similar, Satoshi gave Bitcoin for free to people, for helping them to get rid of the slavery imposed by governs and banks, for performing peer-to-peer transactions, without the intervention of any third party, but people, in their greed, created centralized crypto exchanges.

Some opportunists believed they will get rich by operating such exchanges. One of them is Charlie Shrem (Yankee (BitInstant)). A young enthusiast, which adopted Bitcoin while he was in college. Later he launches BitInstant, one of first crypto exchanges and which, at some point, was running about 30% of all Bitcoin transactions. Later he ends up in jail, for aiding and abetting the operation of an unlicensed money transmitting business. He was also called "Bitcoin's first felon".

Since Shrem's case, governs started to be even more strict with bitcoiners. A 2018 article informs that "The so-called “Bitcoin Maven,” who admitted to operating an unlicensed bitcoin-for-cash exchange business and laundering bitcoin [...] was sentenced today to 12 months and one day in federal prison, three years of supervised release, and a fine of $20,000".



Crypto exchanges soared and so did their users, without understanding that they are acting against Bitcoin's main principles: peer-to-peer / anonymity / pseudonymity / getting rid of middle man. New laws appeared also together with crypto exchanges, and they forced exchanges to impose KYC to their customers.

People's greed led them to:

- risk their money held at exchanges, as they were not in possession of their private keys
- risk their money, as many exchanges were hacked
- risk their personal information, as many exchanges were hacked and hackers used customers' personal information or even sold it on dark web (which led to even more risks for these people, as you may never know when a criminal shows up at your door and robs you, after buying all your personal information for 1$ from dark web)
- risk their money, as many exchanges simply froze their accounts
- risk their money, as many banks froze their accounts, after finding out that money came from crypto transactions
- risk they money and also their freedom, in case they did not obey to the new laws issued by the govern.

Yet, only a few learned their lesson. Perhaps those which were wise and those which had to live at least one of the above mentioned situations.

And, as time passes, "crypto laws" become even more harsh and more complex. In many cases, also more ridiculous or raising more questions unanswered by anybody.

In Romania, for example, first crypto law was issued in 2019 but, until then, you were facing the risk of being accused of tax evasion, of having a criminal record or even of jail time for not declaring the fiat money obtained from crypto transactions, although there was no legal framework. Accountants did not know how to declare these incomes of their customers and authorities did not know how to answer to people's questions. After the law was issued, in early 2019, bitcoiners had to pay a 10% tax for the profits they made in the previous year. And, if their profits were greater than 12 minimum wages, they were supposed to pay also 10% of the amount of 12 minimum wages. This secondary tax was given for health system. Those which had losses in the previous year are not supposed to pay anything.

Still, the law is not clear. What is a miner supposed to do? If he made profits in the previous year but the hardware equipment he bought is far from being paid back, is the miner at a profit or at loss? And what happens with those miners which do not have anymore the bills / invoices of their hardware equipment? Nobody knows.

In the future new taxes may arise. More complex, more ridiculous.

In any case, Bitcoin was not conceived for anything like that. It was not created for giving people more troubles, nor for getting them in jail in case they do not give to the State its share, a share for which the State did not make any contribution. Everything is in the reverse sort of way than it should.

Instead of rendering governs and banks as irrelevant, instead of getting the middle man out of equation, people's actions enforced these entities. And now, these entities fight back, oppressing people even more. All exchanges collect users' data for having them prepared for authorities. Bitcoiners go smiling at crypto exchanges -- nobody knows why -- and offer them for free and at their own will their money and personal information. To make sure they'll become slaves again, users also associate their accounts from exchanges to bank accounts, thus allowing banks too to freeze their funds at will and also giving their data to authorities.

Then many obtain some fiat money from their crypto activities and, without knowing the very complex laws, they become sitting ducks in front of authorities.



However, I believe that a limit will put all these to end. All these incorrect uses of Bitcoin, all govern and bank extortions, all the abuses of crypto exchanges.

And this limit will be reached when enough people will suffer from their greed, from their naïveté, from their stupidity. When enough of them will have criminal records and when enough of them will have to serve jail time. Only a drastic suffering will be able to open people's eyes.

And, when this will happen, bitcoiners will finally stop using exchanges. They will stop holding in bank accounts their fiat incomes obtained from crypto activities. Some will even avoid using fiat money. If all these will happen, then individuals will finally start using Bitcoin the way Satoshi created it: for their own benefit, for rendering governs and banks as irrelevant, for eliminating any middle man, for anonymizing their financial deals, for being their own bankers, for owning their private keys instead of allowing exchanges having them.

And when these will happen, all the previous oppression imposed by governs will turn against them. They will not be able to catch any other victim as their earlier victims know now how to protect themselves and how to use Bitcoin properly. When these will happen, the prey will become the hunter.

I don't know how much time will pass until all these will become real. But I have a feeling that, sooner or later, people will realize they suffered enough and they will say: "Enough!". And they will open their eyes and they will understand how to use Bitcoin. Not for the benefit of the State, but for their own benefit!

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