Topic: Governs' oppression of bitcoiners may turn against them - page 2. (Read 782 times)

What you proposed may be a part of the solution for resolving the problem of users which act with their eyes closed or based by greed. However, the other part of the solution consists in people, which should be willing to educate themselves. If we have 10 educative topics about Bitcoin, anonymity and how to avoid centralized exchanges but nobody reads them then there will be no positive outcome, even though the authors of those topics will get merited. Same will happen if those which keep their eyes closed or which are full of greed read those topics but take no action.

Take a look at this topic: 12 years later and people still don't know to use Bitcoin nor what it's good for. Those which appreciated it showed their appreciation. So the part of the solution proposed by you is accomplished. Furthermore, the topic was seen 408 times. Now the hard part comes: how many times was it read by users which don't know how to properly use crypto or by users which only think about getting rich over night? And, even more important, how many of them have changed their behavior after reading the topic?. -- These are the most important questions...

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Indeed, the current context is meant to favor those which are focused on their privacy and, why not, those which are dragged back on the right path. Decentralized exchanges keep appearing; wallets containing atomic swaps are developed more (two examples of such wallets are Unstoppable Wallet and AtomicDEX). There are also wallets which contain instant (and anonymous?) exchanges, such as Jaxx Liberty; however, not everybody agrees with this kind of wallets / instant exchanges. But the point is that solutions become available. As time passes more and more solutions become available for those trying to keep their privacy.


I also don't know that but some information on this subject could be important. However, since atomic swaps become easier to reach within wallets, perhaps more users will choose them instead of decentralized exchanges... But that's just a hunch of mine.

It's now become a lot easier to use dexes to transfer funds and cash them out; it might just be me that thinks this but dexes seem cheaper now than centralised exchanges? I paid 80 cents yesterday to convert 1000 usdc to btc and immediately gained custody of those btc.

I'm not sure if there's statistics but I wonder how many dexes have been attacked (ignoring liquidity pools and focusing on only atomic swaps and manual transfers) it feels a lot safer and a lot more secure so I'd imagine it actually is.


There seems to be a lot of companies that do this sort of things but not too many interacting with them imo and publicising it which is likely the reason there are less merits awarded for these activities.

I think the community especially this forum should encourage or incentivize people or things that are trying to make everyone use Bitcoin/crypto properly.A nice way to do this would be with the merit system but it seems those who could change things are finding it hard to benefit from it.
When you see people who are doing their best to help others use Bitcoin/crypto properly they should be encouraged. Let's stop encouraging or incentivizing those doing things wrongly and you will see how quickly things change for good. Imagine having the Legendary ranks filled with just passionate and very principled Bitcoiners. The newbies and young users will be guided properly by them.
It is not easy to resist the temptation of not  following the principles Bitcoin is built on. Not easy for the weak. They would probably think "if I insist that people do the right thing, businesses that don't care will employ them with huge pay if they leave, or they will create their own altcoins/platforms that break the principles, and do things the way they want... And they will become richer than me while I remain poor for trying to do what is right". But they forgot that the ones insisting that the right things be done naturally becomes the defacto leaders as long as they practice what they preach, and they will discover their power/authority no one can disobey (or be punished) when they issue orders . You can do alot of things with that kind of power and authority, even becoming the richest in that your community if you want to... and as long as you remain principled.

It's better we operate in this space like we already have good rules that guide members/participants. Using Bitcoin/crypto properly should be part of the rules. And It is important to encourage those who follow the rules and avoid those who don't. That's how we will help the community remain on the right track and avoid the future consequences or problems you mentioned.

Governs oppress bitcoiners for more than a decade now. Being aware that bitcoiners earn real fiat money from their crypto transactions, governs around the world started to extort bitcoiners, for taking away the money these people earned without having the State helping them in any way. People work, get paid for their work, but the State wants its share.

Oppression grew bigger and bigger as time passed. For being able to coerce people to pay, governs around the world created laws which did not exist before, trying to centralize what was meant to be decentralized. And people, in their greed, helped the State to extort them even more.

Prometheus gave fire to people, for warming up their homes and for preparing food, but people used it to fire up neighbors' houses. Similar, Satoshi gave Bitcoin for free to people, for helping them to get rid of the slavery imposed by governs and banks, for performing peer-to-peer transactions, without the intervention of any third party, but people, in their greed, created centralized crypto exchanges.

Some opportunists believed they will get rich by operating such exchanges. One of them is Charlie Shrem (Yankee (BitInstant)). A young enthusiast, which adopted Bitcoin while he was in college. Later he launches BitInstant, one of first crypto exchanges and which, at some point, was running about 30% of all Bitcoin transactions. Later he ends up in jail, for aiding and abetting the operation of an unlicensed money transmitting business. He was also called "Bitcoin's first felon".

Since Shrem's case, governs started to be even more strict with bitcoiners. A 2018 article informs that "The so-called “Bitcoin Maven,” who admitted to operating an unlicensed bitcoin-for-cash exchange business and laundering bitcoin [...] was sentenced today to 12 months and one day in federal prison, three years of supervised release, and a fine of $20,000".

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Crypto exchanges soared and so did their users, without understanding that they are acting against Bitcoin's main principles: peer-to-peer / anonymity / pseudonymity / getting rid of middle man. New laws appeared also together with crypto exchanges, and they forced exchanges to impose KYC to their customers.

People's greed led them to:

- risk their money held at exchanges, as they were not in possession of their private keys
- risk their money, as many exchanges were hacked
- risk their personal information, as many exchanges were hacked and hackers used customers' personal information or even sold it on dark web (which led to even more risks for these people, as you may never know when a criminal shows up at your door and robs you, after buying all your personal information for 1$ from dark web)
- risk their money, as many exchanges simply froze their accounts
- risk their money, as many banks froze their accounts, after finding out that money came from crypto transactions
- risk they money and also their freedom, in case they did not obey to the new laws issued by the govern.

Yet, only a few learned their lesson. Perhaps those which were wise and those which had to live at least one of the above mentioned situations.

And, as time passes, "crypto laws" become even more harsh and more complex. In many cases, also more ridiculous or raising more questions unanswered by anybody.

In Romania, for example, first crypto law was issued in 2019 but, until then, you were facing the risk of being accused of tax evasion, of having a criminal record or even of jail time for not declaring the fiat money obtained from crypto transactions, although there was no legal framework. Accountants did not know how to declare these incomes of their customers and authorities did not know how to answer to people's questions. After the law was issued, in early 2019, bitcoiners had to pay a 10% tax for the profits they made in the previous year. And, if their profits were greater than 12 minimum wages, they were supposed to pay also 10% of the amount of 12 minimum wages. This secondary tax was given for health system. Those which had losses in the previous year are not supposed to pay anything.

Still, the law is not clear. What is a miner supposed to do? If he made profits in the previous year but the hardware equipment he bought is far from being paid back, is the miner at a profit or at loss? And what happens with those miners which do not have anymore the bills / invoices of their hardware equipment? Nobody knows.

In the future new taxes may arise. More complex, more ridiculous.

In any case, Bitcoin was not conceived for anything like that. It was not created for giving people more troubles, nor for getting them in jail in case they do not give to the State its share, a share for which the State did not make any contribution. Everything is in the reverse sort of way than it should.

Instead of rendering governs and banks as irrelevant, instead of getting the middle man out of equation, people's actions enforced these entities. And now, these entities fight back, oppressing people even more. All exchanges collect users' data for having them prepared for authorities. Bitcoiners go smiling at crypto exchanges -- nobody knows why -- and offer them for free and at their own will their money and personal information. To make sure they'll become slaves again, users also associate their accounts from exchanges to bank accounts, thus allowing banks too to freeze their funds at will and also giving their data to authorities.

Then many obtain some fiat money from their crypto activities and, without knowing the very complex laws, they become sitting ducks in front of authorities.

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However, I believe that a limit will put all these to end. All these incorrect uses of Bitcoin, all govern and bank extortions, all the abuses of crypto exchanges.

And this limit will be reached when enough people will suffer from their greed, from their naïveté, from their stupidity. When enough of them will have criminal records and when enough of them will have to serve jail time. Only a drastic suffering will be able to open people's eyes.

And, when this will happen, bitcoiners will finally stop using exchanges. They will stop holding in bank accounts their fiat incomes obtained from crypto activities. Some will even avoid using fiat money. If all these will happen, then individuals will finally start using Bitcoin the way Satoshi created it: for their own benefit, for rendering governs and banks as irrelevant, for eliminating any middle man, for anonymizing their financial deals, for being their own bankers, for owning their private keys instead of allowing exchanges having them.

And when these will happen, all the previous oppression imposed by governs will turn against them. They will not be able to catch any other victim as their earlier victims know now how to protect themselves and how to use Bitcoin properly. When these will happen, the prey will become the hunter.

I don't know how much time will pass until all these will become real. But I have a feeling that, sooner or later, people will realize they suffered enough and they will say: "Enough!". And they will open their eyes and they will understand how to use Bitcoin. Not for the benefit of the State, but for their own benefit!

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Translations (in chronological order):

• Română: Oprimarea bitcoinerilor de către guverne s-ar putea întoarce împotriva lor, translation by GazetaBitcoin
• Filipino: Ang pang-aapi ng Pamahalaan sa mga Bitcoiner ay maaaring bumalik laban sa kanila, translation by Asuspawer09
• Polish: Opresja rządów wobec bitcoinerów może obrócić się przeciwko nim, translation by cygan
• Pidgin: The Oppression wey governs' dey show bitcoiners fit turn against dem, translation by Nheer
• Bengali: বিটকয়েনারদের উপর প্রশাসনের অত্যাচার, translation by Learn Bitcoin
• Russian: Пpитecнeниe биткoйнepoв мoжeт oбepнyтьc, translation by FP91G
• French: L'oppression gouvernementale sur les bitcoiners pourrait se retourner contre eux, translation by iwantmyhomepaidwithbtc2
• Urdu: بٹ کوائنرز پر حکمرانوں کا ظلم ان کے خلاف ہو س, translation by ThemePen
• German: Unterdrückung von Bitcoinern durch die Regierungen könnte sich gegen sie wenden, translation by cygan
• Indonesian: Penindasan pemerintah terhadap kepada para bitcoiner mungkin akan berbalik arah, translation by dansus021
• Ukrainian: Утиcки бiткoйнepiв з бoкy ypядiв мoжyть o, translation by DrBeer
• Turkish: Hükümetlerin Bitcoin Kullanıcılarına Karşı Baskısı Kendilerine Dönebilir , translation by mela65