It all seems so shady. Magicaltux aint that dumb. Why is he playing dumb now?
Probably because he's under subpoena and very likely to be extradited.
Topic: Gox Crisis Management Plan Confirmed Legitimate - page 2. (Read 3918 times)
Probably because he's under subpoena and very likely to be extradited.
http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/26/irc-chat-with-mark-karpeles-confirms-leaked-documents-authenticity-mt-gox-currently-seeking-bail-out/
So .. 750,000 coins actually are "missing" from Gox. Hoe lee sheet.
So .. 750,000 coins actually are "missing" from Gox. Hoe lee sheet.
Misleading headline.
When asked if the plan was legit, Karpeles' reply was "more or less … this document was not produced by MtGox".
I think "more or less [legitimate]" easily encompasses "yes, most of it is true, except the numbers were grossly exaggerated". At this point I don't think he can comment on anything numbers-related, even to point out that they are the part of the document that is "less" legit.
I don't understand how people could have withdrawn bitcoins, used transaction malleability to make gox think there was an error and resend the coins... to the tune of 750,000 BTC without mtgox noticing something was wrong... am I missing something? or is the loss related to something else?
Crazy Rabbit's theory is that they never had the 700k in coins to start with. Gox may have been selling non-existent coins all along as the transactions were off blockchain. Gox thought they were making money but actually due to malleability issue, they were getting continually drained of real bitcoins.
So the liability side to customers kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
I would say that Karpeles is a genius retard... IMHO of course.
That does not compute. You query the btc balance of every user. Check.
You then check you hot wallet balance in bitcoind. Check.
You then check your cold wallet money has not moved. You still control it. Check.
Do the simple math.
What you say is correct. I don't think MtGox was able to query btc balance of every user.
The hot wallet would've been running low. I don't know if it was topped up and how many times.
I think cold wallet is still somewhere but most likely has been shifted for "security reasons".
MtGox was unable to do the maths, it would appear.
My other question will the bitcoin devs face a lawsuit eventually for knowing about the transaction malleability issue and not making a serious effort to address it?
Nope. Open source software uses a license that covers them from pretty much everything.
My other question will the bitcoin devs face a lawsuit eventually for knowing about the transaction malleability issue and not making a serious effort to address it?
I don't understand how people could have withdrawn bitcoins, used transaction malleability to make gox think there was an error and resend the coins... to the tune of 750,000 BTC without mtgox noticing something was wrong... am I missing something? or is the loss related to something else?
Gross incompetence on a scale which goes magnitudes beyond what MtGox's harshest critics could ever possibly imagine.
I mean in accounting the absolute most basic reconciliation is to balance the chart of account against the actual funds. The books say we should have x BTC and we check and yup we have x BTC. The books say we should have y USD and yup we have y USD. This isn't to say accounting should end there but this is the absolute most basic check and for the story to be believed they simply never did it for years.
Not to mention community out-cry for a confirmation that this most basic level of accounting was done, also for years. How many extra-large cups of chocolate-caramel-topped heavy-creamer does a guy need to suck down before things like this stop being a concern?
I don't understand how people could have withdrawn bitcoins, used transaction malleability to make gox think there was an error and resend the coins... to the tune of 750,000 BTC without mtgox noticing something was wrong... am I missing something? or is the loss related to something else?
Gross incompetence on a scale which goes magnitudes beyond what MtGox's harshest critics could ever possibly imagine.
I mean in accounting the absolute most basic reconciliation is to balance the chart of account against the actual funds. The books say we should have x BTC and we check and yup we have x BTC. The books say we should have y USD and yup we have y USD. This isn't to say accounting should end there but this is the absolute most basic check and for the story to be believed they simply never did it for years.
I don't understand how people could have withdrawn bitcoins, used transaction malleability to make gox think there was an error and resend the coins... to the tune of 750,000 BTC without mtgox noticing something was wrong... am I missing something? or is the loss related to something else?
Crazy Rabbit's theory is that they never had the 700k in coins to start with. Gox may have been selling non-existent coins all along as the transactions were off blockchain. Gox thought they were making money but actually due to malleability issue, they were getting continually drained of real bitcoins.
So the liability side to customers kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
I would say that Karpeles is a genius retard... IMHO of course.
That does not compute. You query the btc balance of every user. Check.
You then check you hot wallet balance in bitcoind. Check.
You then check your cold wallet money has not moved. You still control it. Check.
Do the simple math.
I don't understand how people could have withdrawn bitcoins, used transaction malleability to make gox think there was an error and resend the coins... to the tune of 750,000 BTC without mtgox noticing something was wrong... am I missing something? or is the loss related to something else?
Crazy Rabbit's theory is that they never had the 700k in coins to start with. Gox may have been selling non-existent coins all along as the transactions were off blockchain. Gox thought they were making money but actually due to malleability issue, they were getting continually drained of real bitcoins.
So the liability side to customers kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
I would say that Karpeles is a genius retard... IMHO of course.
I don't understand how people could have withdrawn bitcoins, used transaction malleability to make gox think there was an error and resend the coins... to the tune of 750,000 BTC without mtgox noticing something was wrong...
Screams out "inside job" if that's really what happened. If that's what happened, someone had to have been on the inside cooking the books. (There have to have been books of some sort, right?)
I don't understand how people could have withdrawn bitcoins, used transaction malleability to make gox think there was an error and resend the coins... to the tune of 750,000 BTC without mtgox noticing something was wrong... am I missing something? or is the loss related to something else?
The only question on my mind is: how long before Karpeles is in jail for insolvent trading/fraudulent conduct/gross negligence?
That'd be my second question, with the first one being "Is it really true that 750,000 BTC just disappeared?"
I find it rather hard to believe. That said, I never did trust Mt. Gox.
The only question on my mind is: how long before Karpeles is in jail for insolvent trading/fraudulent conduct/gross negligence?
So .. 750,000 coins actually are "missing" from Gox. Hoe lee sheet.
Sounds deflationary. The M1 of bitcoin just went down by 750,000 BTC (6%), no?
no, and not just, all of those coins could be in circulation and have past through many hands, we all may own some of them, if just means gox doesn't have btc to give some people (lot's of people) if that figure is correct.
just how the hell they couldn't notice that there wallet(s) and account balance(s) were out by 750,000 for several years is beyond me though.. or just how we are expected to believe that more than 750,000 was still held on gox after all their stupidity the recent years..
this really does not add up.
erm we just went to do a withdraw and the wallet is empty.. okay how much is out? ... 750,000 <--- does not happen, unnoticed.
Exactly... 750,000 just keeps shrinking month after month and never once they did a db query to determine what they owe users in btc versus actual btc in their possession? The simplest audit imagineable? Something so simple it is coded into open source mining pool software let alone an exchange?
And this was not even a hack like we all think of it. The hot wallet being drained. That i can understand. But a multi month/year hack that some idiot keeps topping off the hot wallet letting it happen repeatedly until almost everything is gone? With no simple audit once a day or even a month?
"Where's that money, you silly stupid old fool? Where's that money? Do you realize what this means? It means bankruptcy and scandal and prison! That's what it means! One of us is going to jail; well, it's not gonna be me!"
So .. 750,000 coins actually are "missing" from Gox. Hoe lee sheet.
Sounds deflationary. The M1 of bitcoin just went down by 750,000 BTC (6%), no?
no, and not just, all of those coins could be in circulation and have past through many hands, we all may own some of them, if just means gox doesn't have btc to give some people (lot's of people) if that figure is correct.
just how the hell they couldn't notice that there wallet(s) and account balance(s) were out by 750,000 for several years is beyond me though.. or just how we are expected to believe that more than 750,000 was still held on gox after all their stupidity the recent years..
this really does not add up.
erm we just went to do a withdraw and the wallet is empty.. okay how much is out? ... 750,000 <--- does not happen, unnoticed.
Exactly... 750,000 just keeps shrinking month after month and never once they did a db query to determine what they owe users in btc versus actual btc in their possession? The simplest audit imagineable? Something so simple it is coded into open source mining pool software let alone an exchange?
And this was not even a hack like we all think of it. The hot wallet being drained. That i can understand. But a multi month/year hack that some idiot keeps topping off the hot wallet letting it happen repeatedly until almost everything is gone? With no simple audit once a day or even a month?
So .. 750,000 coins actually are "missing" from Gox. Hoe lee sheet.
Sounds deflationary. The M1 of bitcoin just went down by 750,000 BTC (6%), no?
no, and not just, all of those coins could be in circulation and have past through many hands, we all may own some of them, if just means gox doesn't have btc to give some people (lot's of people) if that figure is correct.
Well, yeah, that's why I said M1, not M0.
When banks failed during the great depression, the value of the dollar went up, not down, right?
So .. 750,000 coins actually are "missing" from Gox. Hoe lee sheet.
Sounds deflationary. The M1 of bitcoin just went down by 750,000 BTC (6%), no?
If they have never been sold and never will be, then sure.
Apparently 750,000 BTC that people thought they had doesn't exist.
So .. 750,000 coins actually are "missing" from Gox. Hoe lee sheet.
Sounds deflationary. The M1 of bitcoin just went down by 750,000 BTC (6%), no?
no, and not just, all of those coins could be in circulation and have past through many hands, we all may own some of them, if just means gox doesn't have btc to give some people (lot's of people) if that figure is correct.
just how the hell they couldn't notice that there wallet(s) and account balance(s) were out by 750,000 for several years is beyond me though.. or just how we are expected to believe that more than 750,000 was still held on gox after all their stupidity the recent years..
this really does not add up.
erm we just went to do a withdraw and the wallet is empty.. okay how much is out? ... 750,000 <--- does not happen, unnoticed.
So .. 750,000 coins actually are "missing" from Gox. Hoe lee sheet.
Sounds deflationary. The M1 of bitcoin just went down by 750,000 BTC (6%), no?
If they have never been sold and never will be, then sure.
So .. 750,000 coins actually are "missing" from Gox. Hoe lee sheet.
Sounds deflationary. The M1 of bitcoin just went down by 750,000 BTC (6%), no?
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