GREAT NEWS FOR VIRTUAL CURRENCIES from Liberty Reserve Press Conference - page 2.

Lethn

legendary

Activity: 1540

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Quote from: Coinseeker on May 29, 2013, 05:20:44 PM

Quote from: Lethn on May 29, 2013, 05:14:56 PM

When people don't want to use my money to blow giant craters in other peoples' countries for shits and giggles let me know and then I'll share Tongue

So you basically mean never. Honestly, sounds like a really poor excuse to just be selfish. Fine by me, but why not just own that without the excuses? Huh

If you think that taxes have anything to do with with being generous you're incredibly naive.

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: bytemaster on May 29, 2013, 05:49:05 PM

This is where BitShares will entirely demolish their plans.

1) no more exchanges
2) mining is far more decentralized.
3) all assets that are traded are 'final' sales, no IOU, no deposits. Equivalent to barter.
4) no currency exchange risk.

Combine the properties and the only thing they could do is outlaw the direct acceptance of Bitcoin or BitShares for goods as being 'money transmittal'. If we get them 'on the record' saying that using crypto-currencies for buying and selling goods is acceptable and legal, then they are stuck.....

....until they pass a new law saying its illegal. lol

bytemaster

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 566

fractally

This is where BitShares will entirely demolish their plans.

1) no more exchanges
2) mining is far more decentralized.
3) all assets that are traded are 'final' sales, no IOU, no deposits. Equivalent to barter.
4) no currency exchange risk.

Combine the properties and the only thing they could do is outlaw the direct acceptance of Bitcoin or BitShares for goods as being 'money transmittal'. If we get them 'on the record' saying that using crypto-currencies for buying and selling goods is acceptable and legal, then they are stuck!

fellowtraveler

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 251

Quote

Those offering virtual currencies must comply with these regulatory requirements and if they do so they have nothing to fear...

...and what are those regulatory requirements?

Quote

a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter.

So hey, as long as all the miners register as money transmitters, they have nothing to fear!

Coinseeker

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: Lethn on May 29, 2013, 05:14:56 PM

When people don't want to use my money to blow giant craters in other peoples' countries for shits and giggles let me know and then I'll share Tongue

So you basically mean never. Honestly, sounds like a really poor excuse to just be selfish. Fine by me, but why not just own that without the excuses? Huh

miscreanity

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1005

Bait & switch. Also, misdirection.

Rampion

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

Quote from: Coinseeker on May 29, 2013, 05:07:57 PM

Quote from: oblongmeteor on May 29, 2013, 04:57:06 PM

Quote from: Its About Sharing on May 29, 2013, 03:55:01 PM

Listen from around the 27:30 minute on.

Some VERY notable extracts:

Quote

I want to make clear that today's actions does not mean that we are against virtual currencies

Quote

To the contrary, mobile and internet based financial technologies, including virtual currencies, have great promise to empower consumers, to encourage the development of innovative financial products and expand access to financial services. In fact FinCen issued guidance in March 2013 to bring clarity and regulatory certainty to businesses and individuals....

Quote

Those offering virtual currencies must comply with these regulatory requirements and if they do so they have nothing to fear...

This is pretty damn good news guys...

You've cherry picked. This is an ex-script from the same video...

...27:06 "[...] was used because of the anonymity it offers. Liberty Reserve thus threatens the financial system by facilitating anonymous transactions among cyber criminals ultimately involving more traditional financial institutions where so called Liberty Reserve dollars are converted into US Dollars. Liberty Reserve also threatens the US financial system by providing financial services to the developers and purchasers of financial malware [...]"

Replace "Liberty Reserve dollars" with "Bitcoins" and "traditional financial institutions" with "exchanges (Mt Gox et al)" and suddenly, the pictures not quite so rosy.

Your experience may differ, but subjectively no where in that video does it hint at endorsement of Bitcoin. And if you were to take Liberty Reserve as the model and apply it to the current BTC world, most of the current Bitcoin businesses fall afoul of US (read: Western global) anti money laundering regulations.

Two points:

1. Seem odd to suddenly be offering blind trust to a government after years of building an ideology on the basis the same government is untrustworthy. Huh

I guess they are ok when they say what you want? Not so good when they don't?

2. ...27:06 "[...] [Bitcoin]was used because of the anonymity it offers. ~~Liberty Reserve~~ [Bitcoin]thus threatens the financial system by facilitating anonymous transactions among cyber criminals ultimately involving more traditional financial institutions where so called ~~Liberty Reserve dollars~~ [Bitcoins] are converted into US Dollars. ~~Liberty Reserve~~ [Bitcoin] also threatens the US financial system by providing financial services to the developers and purchasers of financial malware [...]"

Not hard to swap the names and drop the hammer. If anything, it's another telegraphed warning at Bitcoin. Didn't see this part initially when the news broke. Very telling IMO.

FUD? Maybe.

You don't "telegraph warnings" to a p2p protocol.

But there is a clear message to exchanges - they want their voice to be heard.

Everything else in your post is FUD of the dullest kind.

Lethn

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1000

When people don't want to use my money to blow giant craters in other peoples' countries for shits and giggles let me know and then I'll share Tongue

Coinseeker

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: Lethn on May 29, 2013, 05:10:27 PM

Quote

Those offering virtual currencies must comply with these regulatory requirements and if they do so they have nothing to fear...

Read more carefully, this alone has made me automatically raise my middle finger, I shouldn't have to explain to people why.

Come on man, don't be like that...it's about sharing. Wink

Rampion

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 29, 2013, 04:15:13 PM

Yeah, but I think to them virtual currency means AmazonCoin and Terrance and Phillips MintChip not Bitcoin. They are looking for money laundering. Don't you suppose they are at least a little concerned with tumblers and that Bitcoin is the payment system of choice for SR. Don't be naïve.

The March 2013 Fincen guidance was mostly about Bitcoin, so he's implicitly speaking about BTC and not Amazoncoin.

The regulatory pressure is now on BTC exchanges, and this is a clear message. Comply, come to daddy, we are friendly... Until we are not.

Lethn

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1000

Quote

Those offering virtual currencies must comply with these regulatory requirements and if they do so they have nothing to fear...

Read more carefully, this alone has made me automatically raise my middle finger, I shouldn't have to explain to people why.

Coinseeker

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: oblongmeteor on May 29, 2013, 04:57:06 PM

Quote from: Its About Sharing on May 29, 2013, 03:55:01 PM

Listen from around the 27:30 minute on.

Some VERY notable extracts:

Quote

I want to make clear that today's actions does not mean that we are against virtual currencies

Quote

To the contrary, mobile and internet based financial technologies, including virtual currencies, have great promise to empower consumers, to encourage the development of innovative financial products and expand access to financial services. In fact FinCen issued guidance in March 2013 to bring clarity and regulatory certainty to businesses and individuals....

Quote

Those offering virtual currencies must comply with these regulatory requirements and if they do so they have nothing to fear...

This is pretty damn good news guys...

You've cherry picked. This is an ex-script from the same video...

...27:06 "[...] was used because of the anonymity it offers. Liberty Reserve thus threatens the financial system by facilitating anonymous transactions among cyber criminals ultimately involving more traditional financial institutions where so called Liberty Reserve dollars are converted into US Dollars. Liberty Reserve also threatens the US financial system by providing financial services to the developers and purchasers of financial malware [...]"

Replace "Liberty Reserve dollars" with "Bitcoins" and "traditional financial institutions" with "exchanges (Mt Gox et al)" and suddenly, the pictures not quite so rosy.

Your experience may differ, but subjectively no where in that video does it hint at endorsement of Bitcoin. And if you were to take Liberty Reserve as the model and apply it to the current BTC world, most of the current Bitcoin businesses fall afoul of US (read: Western global) anti money laundering regulations.

Two points:

1. Seem odd to suddenly be offering blind trust to a government after years of building an ideology on the basis the same government is untrustworthy. Huh

I guess they are ok when they say what you want? Not so good when they don't?

2. ...27:06 "[...] [Bitcoin]was used because of the anonymity it offers. ~~Liberty Reserve~~ [Bitcoin]thus threatens the financial system by facilitating anonymous transactions among cyber criminals ultimately involving more traditional financial institutions where so called ~~Liberty Reserve dollars~~ [Bitcoins] are converted into US Dollars. ~~Liberty Reserve~~ [Bitcoin] also threatens the US financial system by providing financial services to the developers and purchasers of financial malware [...]"

Not hard to swap the names and drop the hammer. If anything, it's another telegraphed warning at Bitcoin. Didn't see this part initially when the news broke. Very telling IMO.

FUD? Maybe.

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: Its About Sharing on May 29, 2013, 04:44:55 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 29, 2013, 04:30:52 PM

Quote from: Its About Sharing on May 29, 2013, 04:26:39 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 29, 2013, 04:15:13 PM

Yeah, but I think to them virtual currency means AmazonCoin and Terrance and Phillips MintChip not Bitcoin. They are looking for money laundering. Don't you suppose they are at least a little concerned with tumblers and that Bitcoin is the payment system of choice for SR. Don't be naïve.

No, they are not talking about AmazonCoin and the like following regulations. They are talking about the read deal and this is a great sign. He even mentioned the FinCen guidance.

Now, this doesn't mean pressure won't come later from the banks or the government (from behind the scenes) but as a short to mid term statement, it is HUGE.

Basically, "We won't F' with you if you follow regulations".

This is a huge confidence builder for holders and potential holders. The VC money is moving in and they are all about doing things on the up and up.

I'd like you to be right but I see SR as either one of two things, they have to eventually find a way to shut it down or they own it as a honeypot.

There is much uncertainty here. No one can argue that. We can fear what is coming and that just gives them power. Or, you can go with what you believe in and give it you best - 111%

We are so close to the 100th monkey I can taste it. (But maybe I just have a really good sense of taste. Wink

)

Understand one simple thing - Technology is moving forward VERY VERY FAST. Much much faster than governments can react. They are trapped inside slow to adjust systems. It won't be them that comes after us, it will be corporations, banks and the like. The Former is sort of on our side. It is where the banks come in that we have a bit to worry about. But, Banks are NOT Anti-Fragile (see my sig). They are prone to breaking and collapsing - they always do. Things can change quicker than you believe - it is often how it ends up happening. They don't lose control of the "system" - they lose control of the "information". We start, and we are starting, to see reality more for what it is. Seeing these banks struggle, seeing the line between nation states and corporations get fuzzy, etc - it is becoming easier and more obvious. Change is imminent.

Governments have always worked well with new technology. In fact, most of the time they help fund its research and development. You don't believe Satoshi actually invented cryptography do you? The government will surly "play ball" with anyone that plays by its rules. My concern is that it's difficult for Bitcoin, by its very design, to play by the rules. So far big bro has decided to rule on those things it currently knows how to control (kyc, aml). I'm just waiting for round two to get excited.

CtrlAltBernanke420

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

How about they take the siezed funds, and use it to buy bitcoins, and we start a bitcoin based govt with that. Now we can see how it gets spent and we know who has the private keys!! Baseball bats to their knees if they dare attempt to start more war!!

oblongmeteor

full member

Activity: 134

Merit: 100

Quote from: Its About Sharing on May 29, 2013, 03:55:01 PM

Listen from around the 27:30 minute on.

Some VERY notable extracts:

Quote

I want to make clear that today's actions does not mean that we are against virtual currencies

Quote

To the contrary, mobile and internet based financial technologies, including virtual currencies, have great promise to empower consumers, to encourage the development of innovative financial products and expand access to financial services. In fact FinCen issued guidance in March 2013 to bring clarity and regulatory certainty to businesses and individuals....

Quote

Those offering virtual currencies must comply with these regulatory requirements and if they do so they have nothing to fear...

This is pretty damn good news guys...

You've cherry picked. This is an ex-script from the same video...

...27:06 "[...] was used because of the anonymity it offers. Liberty Reserve thus threatens the financial system by facilitating anonymous transactions among cyber criminals ultimately involving more traditional financial institutions where so called Liberty Reserve dollars are converted into US Dollars. Liberty Reserve also threatens the US financial system by providing financial services to the developers and purchasers of financial malware [...]"

Replace "Liberty Reserve dollars" with "Bitcoins" and "traditional financial institutions" with "exchanges (Mt Gox et al)" and suddenly, the pictures not quite so rosy.

Your experience may differ, but subjectively no where in that video does it hint at endorsement of Bitcoin. And if you were to take Liberty Reserve as the model and apply it to the current BTC world, most of the current Bitcoin businesses fall afoul of US (read: Western global) anti money laundering regulations.

CtrlAltBernanke420

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

That is pretty clear cut. Fincen issued guidance because of Bitcoin..... Virtual currencies are here to stay, they are not anonymous. The gov't may actually like that. Also I can imagine the silkroad end of things may eventually, or already has more or less a green light.

I do not take these guys as a Sherrif Rosco from Dukes of Hazard. These guys are not idiots. Nor do they want more war. But they do want you to know they will go after the worst of perpetrators for sick stuff, and situations and people that do really need to be put at bay. I dont really care about laws, and authority following the laws, as long as there becomes some sort moral compass to their actions. <-- that is kinda what we are seeing minus the rogue cops.

I do think every virutal crypto currency will see a boost in prices based on this. Big money may move it.

Its About Sharing

legendary

Activity: 1442

Merit: 1000

Antifragile

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 29, 2013, 04:30:52 PM

Quote from: Its About Sharing on May 29, 2013, 04:26:39 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 29, 2013, 04:15:13 PM

Yeah, but I think to them virtual currency means AmazonCoin and Terrance and Phillips MintChip not Bitcoin. They are looking for money laundering. Don't you suppose they are at least a little concerned with tumblers and that Bitcoin is the payment system of choice for SR. Don't be naïve.

No, they are not talking about AmazonCoin and the like following regulations. They are talking about the read deal and this is a great sign. He even mentioned the FinCen guidance.

Now, this doesn't mean pressure won't come later from the banks or the government (from behind the scenes) but as a short to mid term statement, it is HUGE.

Basically, "We won't F' with you if you follow regulations".

This is a huge confidence builder for holders and potential holders. The VC money is moving in and they are all about doing things on the up and up.

I'd like you to be right but I see SR as either one of two things, they have to eventually find a way to shut it down or they own it as a honeypot.

There is much uncertainty here. No one can argue that. We can fear what is coming and that just gives them power. Or, you can go with what you believe in and give it you best - 111%

We are so close to the 100th monkey I can taste it. (But maybe I just have a really good sense of taste. Wink

)

Understand one simple thing - Technology is moving forward VERY VERY FAST. Much much faster than governments can react. They are trapped inside slow to adjust systems. It won't be them that comes after us, it will be corporations, banks and the like. The Former is sort of on our side. It is where the banks come in that we have a bit to worry about. But, Banks are NOT Anti-Fragile (see my sig). They are prone to breaking and collapsing - they always do. Things can change quicker than you believe - it is often how it ends up happening. They don't lose control of the "system" - they lose control of the "information". We start, and we are starting, to see reality more for what it is. Seeing these banks struggle, seeing the line between nation states and corporations get fuzzy, etc - it is becoming easier and more obvious. Change is imminent.

stayeduptolate

hero member

Activity: 980

Merit: 502

This is a good sign!

FNG

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: Its About Sharing on May 29, 2013, 04:26:39 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 29, 2013, 04:15:13 PM

Yeah, but I think to them virtual currency means AmazonCoin and Terrance and Phillips MintChip not Bitcoin. They are looking for money laundering. Don't you suppose they are at least a little concerned with tumblers and that Bitcoin is the payment system of choice for SR. Don't be naïve.

No, they are not talking about AmazonCoin and the like following regulations. They are talking about the read deal and this is a great sign. He even mentioned the FinCen guidance.

Now, this doesn't mean pressure won't come later from the banks or the government (from behind the scenes) but as a short to mid term statement, it is HUGE.

Basically, "We won't F' with you if you follow regulations".

This is a huge confidence builder for holders and potential holders. The VC money is moving in and they are all about doing things on the up and up.

Agreed. Pretty big green light for bigger money

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: Its About Sharing on May 29, 2013, 04:26:39 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 29, 2013, 04:15:13 PM

Yeah, but I think to them virtual currency means AmazonCoin and Terrance and Phillips MintChip not Bitcoin. They are looking for money laundering. Don't you suppose they are at least a little concerned with tumblers and that Bitcoin is the payment system of choice for SR. Don't be naïve.

No, they are not talking about AmazonCoin and the like following regulations. They are talking about the read deal and this is a great sign. He even mentioned the FinCen guidance.

Now, this doesn't mean pressure won't come later from the banks or the government (from behind the scenes) but as a short to mid term statement, it is HUGE.

Basically, "We won't F' with you if you follow regulations".

This is a huge confidence builder for holders and potential holders. The VC money is moving in and they are all about doing things on the up and up.

I'd like you to be right but I see SR as either one of two things, they have to eventually find a way to shut it down or they own it as a honeypot.

Topic: GREAT NEWS FOR VIRTUAL CURRENCIES from Liberty Reserve Press Conference - page 2. (Read 9046 times)