Topic: Greeks face heavy fines if they don't spend 30% of their income electronically - page 2. (Read 613 times)
December 15, 2019, 02:10:37 PM
LOL. While I appreciate it, I wonder what these laws would seem like in a world where crypto is emerging. I mean, crypto is also digital but it's untraceable so obviously they won't be Nle to detect if there's a non tax paying crypto billionaire present among them xD
December 15, 2019, 02:01:07 PM
I don’t see anything good in this.
Nor do I. I'm hoping this doesn't become a trend for governments to do crap like this. 
December 15, 2019, 01:46:52 PM
It is still possible for them to implement such policy as a preparation for a cashless system. And there's nothing wrong about it, in fact, it would help cut the needed natural resources used in cash production. However, it does sacrifice some financial freedom (because cash is harder to trace than digital means of transaction). And not all people are capable of transacting digitally.
I don’t see anything good in this. Governments want to control the movement of money and such measures are very convenient for this. And there are always explanations and excuses. Paper money has existed for more than four centuries, and previously everything was fine. Forcing people to make transactions in a certain way, this in any case limits their financial freedom. I am generally against the use of such measures. 
December 14, 2019, 06:09:50 PM
This just begs to become another use case for Bitcoin, and not because it's electronic but because it's electronic cash - it can be used to avoid taxes just like cash
not just bitcoin, but anything outside the formal euro banking system. stablecoins would work too. the key is to use a private/informal system that doesn't entail tax reporting.
i think that's why governments are so up in arms about stablecoins. not only are they an easy way to avoid cash controls, but since they are pegged to cash value, they are the most obvious replacement for cash itself.
December 14, 2019, 03:01:19 PM
Is this a joke? How can the government force something like this, when the people are already paying the income tax over their salaries? The tax rates in Greece remains one of the highest in the world, and now the government want to take away a part of the remainder as well. This will never be implemented successfully, and people will find loopholes to get around the system.
Governments should not force people to go completely on electronical spending. If the government is implementing it for the goodness of the public then they should've made the people understand it and further implement it. What's been done by Greece looks like a decision that is taken in a short without proper analysis and understanding about the mind of the citizens regarding the new adoption. 
December 14, 2019, 02:52:52 PM
Greece has imposed fines for citizens that fail to spend 30% of their income electronically.
They claim this policy is implemented to cut down on tax evasion, for which greece is notorious for. We've witnessed similar anti tax evasion strategies unrolled in india. There is a question mark as to whether these measures are imposed with the intent to cut tax evasion, or whether they are anti cash policies utilized in an effort to further a cashless society paradigm.
December 14, 2019, 02:45:57 PM
This seems to be a trend in Europe with other countries making similar requirements. This is a trend that’s probably good for cryptocurrencies.
even though it is a trend of European countries, but it still makes a mystery, why do they have to spend 30% of their total income? Isn't that a person's own privacy, I think the rules are a bit silly, if only paying taxes I think there is no problemIt looks like the Greek government wants to impose its debt on citizens, this is suck. That's why there are a many ways that the citizens dodge from tax. This is a good time for Bitcoin to shine at Greek. Bitcoin is currency for the people, it has proven to be perfect in Venezuela. The Greek government should have realized that and taken action before they became Venezuela v2.0
December 14, 2019, 02:11:40 PM
I am speechless to see these kind of restrictions and dictatorship kind of rules in the name of helping the nation to catch tax evaders is bullshit, happy that we are not facing these situation and hopefully we will not be forced to do everything digitally as the trend is coming that the government is forcing people to do all the transactions digitally while some of the fools thing that the government is doing it to help the decentralized market and after seeing all these comments i tend to crack up because of the naivety everyone has.
In this particular case it's a direct result of vast swathes of the population refusing to pay their due. If everyone else expects someone else to pay for the functioning of your society then you don't got much of a society any more. Also a lot of people there are paid in cash which is very unusual so the chances of never seeing the tax man are even higher.
But this is ignoring that Greece has the lowest internet uptake in the EU. Paying online can be a hopeless pain up the arse in the UK which is supposed to be well connected so this doesn't bode well. And I wonder how carefully thought through that 30% figure is.
December 14, 2019, 01:53:02 PM
Greece has imposed fines for citizens that fail to spend 30% of their income electronically.
I am speechless to see these kind of restrictions and dictatorship kind of rules in the name of helping the nation to catch tax evaders is bullshit, happy that we are not facing these situation and hopefully we will not be forced to do everything digitally as the trend is coming that the government is forcing people to do all the transactions digitally while some of the fools thing that the government is doing it to help the decentralized market and after seeing all these comments i tend to crack up because of the naivety everyone has. 
December 14, 2019, 01:34:00 PM
This seems to be a trend in Europe with other countries making similar requirements. This is a trend that’s probably good for cryptocurrencies.
even though it is a trend of European countries, but it still makes a mystery, why do they have to spend 30% of their total income? Isn't that a person's own privacy, I think the rules are a bit silly, if only paying taxes I think there is no problem
December 14, 2019, 12:20:17 PM
This seems to be a trend in Europe with other countries making similar requirements. This is a trend that’s probably good for cryptocurrencies.
even though it is a trend of European countries, but it still makes a mystery, why do they have to spend 30% of their total income? Isn't that a person's own privacy, I think the rules are a bit silly, if only paying taxes I think there is no problem 
December 14, 2019, 12:08:03 PM
Is this a joke? How can the government force something like this, when the people are already paying the income tax over their salaries? The tax rates in Greece remains one of the highest in the world, and now the government want to take away a part of the remainder as well. This will never be implemented successfully, and people will find loopholes to get around the system.
Loophole is just to spend that much of their income with online banking. LOL It is a bit silly, but people will just do that. It is quite simple. Some people dont like changes, but now they will have a carrot to make one.
December 14, 2019, 11:55:59 AM
Coming from a country which had its economy in shambles recently, this is actually a positive move to help its people to move away from cash and into electronic payment systems. Fines imposed will definitely be used by the government towards possibly clearing the massive debt that already exists and it comes as no surprise that these are big numbers we're talking about here.
December 14, 2019, 10:58:43 AM
The current state of Greek society requires drastic measures, therefore, I am not surprised by this move by the Greek government. Their national debt is almost 370 billion EUR which is an insane amount of money, and this is even after debt haircut (creditors need to cut debt for 50% in 2011). Despite all the measures that saved Greece from a total breakdown, the situation is actually getting worse.
I think they as members of the EU&Eurozone must implement the decisions taken in the European Parliament, and perhaps this is just one of the measures actually imposed on them. The only way to force them to start paying taxes is to at least partially monitoring of transactions, and 30% is a reasonable amount, for start.
For those who are interested in more info:
I think they as members of the EU&Eurozone must implement the decisions taken in the European Parliament, and perhaps this is just one of the measures actually imposed on them. The only way to force them to start paying taxes is to at least partially monitoring of transactions, and 30% is a reasonable amount, for start.
For those who are interested in more info:
Quote from: https://commodity.com/debt-clock/greece/
In 2007, before the crisis struck, the nation’s debt to GDP ratio was 103.7%. This could be considered high. However, after the creditor haircut, the IMF assistance, and the ECB loans, Greece’s debt to GDP ratio reached 178.6%, having reached 180.8% in 2016. Now, the majority of Greece’s national debt is owed to the IMF, the ECB, and various EU schemes. One condition of these loan contracts was that the Greek government will not be allowed to demand a haircut from those creditors. The Greek bailout didn’t offer the country a way out of its debt, which, in terms of a percentage of GDP is now the second highest in the world after Japan.
December 14, 2019, 10:53:40 AM
This seems to be a trend in Europe with other countries making similar requirements. This is a trend that’s probably good for cryptocurrencies.
December 14, 2019, 10:49:25 AM
Era of cash are gone. More and more govs want to control and see every transaction
It's not gone. I don't think they will ever get it to stop existing with how many people still depend on cash, especially in third world countries. Most of the imposed cash payment limits don't affect the normal person. I don't even remember the last time I spent $1k in cash on something. Most of my cash payments are well under the $50 mark, where other payments are settled through my card. I'm not justifying the limits, only point out that they aren't as bad.
December 14, 2019, 10:34:14 AM
This just begs to become another use case for Bitcoin, and not because it's electronic but because it's electronic cash - it can be used to avoid taxes just like cash, although some precautions are needed, since transaction history is public and permanent. Greeks could start asking to pay a part of their salary in Bitcoin and then spend Bitcoin directly, so that the government and banks wouldn't know about those money. But just like with other theoretical use cases, only time will show if it will happen or not.
December 14, 2019, 09:16:43 AM
Era of cash are gone. More and more govs want to control and see every transaction
December 14, 2019, 07:34:26 AM
Is this a joke? How can the government force something like this, when the people are already paying the income tax over their salaries? The tax rates in Greece remains one of the highest in the world, and now the government want to take away a part of the remainder as well. This will never be implemented successfully, and people will find loopholes to get around the system.
This is targetted at retailers not the customer.
The customer will pay the same for their goods, regardless of whether they pay in cash or with cards.
But the retailer won't be able to hide revenue if people pay by cards. Because all electronic payments can be tracked.
If small businesses in Greece were law abiding and paid their taxes, the govt wouldn't need to take drastic action like this. If small businesses paid their tax, the govt could afford to cut income tax for employees. The tax rates are so high because the entire burden is falling on PAYE employees.
December 14, 2019, 07:31:43 AM
There is a similar thread about Italy
So Italy is now anti-cash and pro-Bitcoin?
These measures are to discourage use of cash which cant be monitored by governments. If everything is done electronically, government will be in better position to tax the people.
So Italy is now anti-cash and pro-Bitcoin?
Quote
The Italian Minister Council continues to wage its war on cash, with the latest ratification lowering the maximum allowed amount for cash payments. This could lead to the rise of Bitcoin in the country.
from: https://beincrypto.com/bitcoin-viability-strengthened-by-new-cash-limits-in-italy/?utm_campaign=amba&utm_medium=social&utm_source=bitcointalk&utm_content=jc
from: https://beincrypto.com/bitcoin-viability-strengthened-by-new-cash-limits-in-italy/?utm_campaign=amba&utm_medium=social&utm_source=bitcointalk&utm_content=jc
These measures are to discourage use of cash which cant be monitored by governments. If everything is done electronically, government will be in better position to tax the people.
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