Topic: Greeks face heavy fines if they don't spend 30% of their income electronically - page 3. (Read 682 times)
December 14, 2019, 06:19:37 AM
I think India is one of those countries where the government has systematically increased the use of digital payments by allowing many e wallets in the same time. But they cant put a rule on spending. Greece already has debt and on that tax rates are high. People will find ways to bypass this and cheat the system one or the other way.
December 14, 2019, 05:06:18 AM
It is still possible for them to implement such policy as a preparation for a cashless system. And there's nothing wrong about it, in fact, it would help cut the needed natural resources used in cash production. However, it does sacrifice some financial freedom (because cash is harder to trace than digital means of transaction). And not all people are capable of transacting digitally.
December 14, 2019, 04:20:32 AM
There is a question mark as to whether these measures are imposed with the intent to cut tax evasion, or whether they are anti cash policies utilized in an effort to further a cashless society paradigm.
two birds with one stone.
the ultimate rationale behind a completely digital and cashless system is control. easy surveillance, reining in tax evasion by forcing payments onto the books, preventing capital flight...... it's a dream come true for governments. the fact that cashless payments are so convenient just plays into their hands.
There's a second relevent angle where tax cuts are utilized in an effort to bolster tax revenues, which is counter intuitive in regard to how many view tax policies. Some believe tax cuts can only result in decreased tax revenues, which is not necessarily the case due to it having the potential to cut tax evasion
we'll see if it actually works. greeks may just find other ways to dodge their tax burdens. at some point, they'll just start avoiding the euro/banking system entirely if cash restrictions become too harsh.
December 14, 2019, 04:12:36 AM
Okay...? Uhm why the policy? Heck they already know that the greeks are one of the populations with the lowest internet usage, so why enforce such a rule? Plus, the mode of payment or mode of salary of employees should be changed as well to easily adapt such changes. If cash is still paid in person, the employees are the ones who will be suffering when supposedly they're supposed to be enjoying since its payday.
Plus, its way too forceful and sudden. They should have let the citizens adapt to it slowly, the concept of electronic payments and such. Families would basically no experience with technology would basically have a hard time adjusting to these changes. A three month test period where they are required but no penalties are enforced could've been nice.
Plus, its way too forceful and sudden. They should have let the citizens adapt to it slowly, the concept of electronic payments and such. Families would basically no experience with technology would basically have a hard time adjusting to these changes. A three month test period where they are required but no penalties are enforced could've been nice.
December 14, 2019, 04:12:24 AM
Unbelievable! This is really ridiculous! How can a government impose a draconian policy on its people? Preventing tax evasion is good, but imposing a huge tax is a bad thing. In most countries, the maximum tax that each person must pay is 10% of their income. 30% is too big for everyone. This rule should be amended as soon as possible, And best of all, it shouldn't be applied officially. Objectively, taking measures to prevent tax evasion is good, but it is necessary to have proper and reasonable measures, a measure that no one opposes. What they are doing will cause a wrath of all the people in their country.
December 14, 2019, 03:46:29 AM
I'd say this is ridiculous. The war on cash continues.
And what exactly do they mean that people have to spend 20% of their income electronically? What if you are so frugal you only consume 20% of your income and try to save the rest, would they penalize you? Or do you only need to spend electronically 30% of that 20%?
And they already mentioned that people get paid in cash. Rent is pretty much the largest expense for most people so it's possible that the other expenses might not consume more that 30% of their income even if they use cards to pay for those.
And what exactly do they mean that people have to spend 20% of their income electronically? What if you are so frugal you only consume 20% of your income and try to save the rest, would they penalize you? Or do you only need to spend electronically 30% of that 20%?
And they already mentioned that people get paid in cash. Rent is pretty much the largest expense for most people so it's possible that the other expenses might not consume more that 30% of their income even if they use cards to pay for those.
December 14, 2019, 03:16:30 AM
Is it still in the testing phase? how to oblige this for citizens who are accustomed to the traditional economy?
If it aims to cut the taxation path and focus on one electronic door, it still must require mapping and classification for various national economic castes. Oh man, 22% for me is a nightmare if I can't adapt to government obligations.
If it aims to cut the taxation path and focus on one electronic door, it still must require mapping and classification for various national economic castes. Oh man, 22% for me is a nightmare if I can't adapt to government obligations.
December 14, 2019, 02:57:36 AM
So that means, if you have a stable income from any family member or anything and you are saving all of it for your school expenses or medical expenses anything that is really important , it Should be taken care of by the government that not everyone is so rich and they have to timely think about everything from day one , it is really hard to abide by the rules when government doesn't know each and every family individually , how could you do that?
This is so ridiculous.
!
This is monarchy iced in pure diplomacy .
This is so ridiculous.
!
This is monarchy iced in pure diplomacy .
December 14, 2019, 01:13:49 AM
I can understand why they try this. Tax evasion in Greece is huge, most businesses prefer to receive cash, in the past some even asked for higher prices if one wanted to pay with card.
But I don't thins it will work. There's a much bigger chance people will have part of their income paid in cash and undeclared.
But I don't thins it will work. There's a much bigger chance people will have part of their income paid in cash and undeclared.
December 13, 2019, 10:01:17 PM
No doubt that in few decades cash will become obsolete. Not only in Greece but some parts of the world are also implementing this type of method well for the sake of to prevent tax evasion. This move by the governments will be a good reason for its citizen to utilize other form of payment instruments like cryptocurrencies.
December 13, 2019, 09:29:56 PM
This seems to be the trend nowadays. A few more countries are implementing this. They are limiting the spending of cash by their citizens. This is going to be pushing the use of other payment modes. Hopefully this would include the use of cryptocurrencies. If there many restaurants and other businesses in Greece that accept cryptocurrency payments, this might be one factor of its adoption.
December 13, 2019, 09:01:48 PM
Is this a joke? How can the government force something like this, when the people are already paying the income tax over their salaries? The tax rates in Greece remains one of the highest in the world, and now the government want to take away a part of the remainder as well. This will never be implemented successfully, and people will find loopholes to get around the system.
December 13, 2019, 06:45:30 PM
Quote
Greeks will be hit with a hefty fine if they do not spend almost a third of their income electronically in an unprecedented bid by the new government to stamp out rampant tax evasion.
The government expects to raise more than €500 million ($808 million) every year from the initiative that will force Greeks to spend 30 per cent of their income electronically, Alex Patelis, the prime minister's chief economic adviser, revealed.
Individuals that fail to meet the target will be hit with a 22 per cent fine on the shortfall. Therefore, if an individual spends just 20 per cent of their income through electronic means, they would face a 22 per cent tax on the remaining 10 per cent bar some exclusions.
The scheme is a radical attempt to cast some light on Greece's huge shadow economy, the world's largest, and is part of new prime minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis's sweeping overhaul to revive growth.
"This is a big initiative next year that will either raise more revenue because [people] will pay the penalty or more likely because of the [higher] VAT receipts," Mr Patelis told The Telegraph.
The revenue predicted is likely to be at the "lower end" of estimates and the country's banks will help impose the measures by reporting spending to the authorities.
If a Greek earned €1,000 per month and only paid 15 per cent of their income electronically, they would pay a fine of around €400 every year, for example. The government is confident it will not drive more workers into the country's booming shadow economy and tempt them to understate their earnings, a key problem in Greece.
Greeks can use debit cards, credit cards, bank transfers and ecommerce for the electronic transactions, which includes rent.
But many workers are paid their wages in cash, which they then use to pay their rent and bills. Greece also has one of the lowest internet usage rates in the EU at 72 per cent. This suggests that some in the country could struggle to meet the 30 per cent target.
Southern Europe, particularly Greece, have booming shadow economies. A study by the Institute for Applied Economic Research in 2017 found that Greece had the largest in the world, being equivalent to 22 per cent of gross domestic product.
Individuals and businesses are enticed to under report earnings and avoid taxation due to high rates and cumbersome bureaucracy.
Tax evasion has been labelled a "Greek national sport" and it was estimated in 2016 to cost the country's coffers up to €16 billion every year, largely through fraud on VAT or income tax.
However, Mr Mitsotakis' government is cutting the tax burden of workers and businesses in an attempt to shock the Greek economy back into life.
Greece has returned to growth but its economy remains sluggish with output still a quarter below pre financial crisis levels.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/greeks-set-to-face-heavy-fines-if-they-don-t-spend-30-per-cent-of-their-income-electronically-20191209-p53i14.html
The government expects to raise more than €500 million ($808 million) every year from the initiative that will force Greeks to spend 30 per cent of their income electronically, Alex Patelis, the prime minister's chief economic adviser, revealed.
Individuals that fail to meet the target will be hit with a 22 per cent fine on the shortfall. Therefore, if an individual spends just 20 per cent of their income through electronic means, they would face a 22 per cent tax on the remaining 10 per cent bar some exclusions.
The scheme is a radical attempt to cast some light on Greece's huge shadow economy, the world's largest, and is part of new prime minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis's sweeping overhaul to revive growth.
"This is a big initiative next year that will either raise more revenue because [people] will pay the penalty or more likely because of the [higher] VAT receipts," Mr Patelis told The Telegraph.
The revenue predicted is likely to be at the "lower end" of estimates and the country's banks will help impose the measures by reporting spending to the authorities.
If a Greek earned €1,000 per month and only paid 15 per cent of their income electronically, they would pay a fine of around €400 every year, for example. The government is confident it will not drive more workers into the country's booming shadow economy and tempt them to understate their earnings, a key problem in Greece.
Greeks can use debit cards, credit cards, bank transfers and ecommerce for the electronic transactions, which includes rent.
But many workers are paid their wages in cash, which they then use to pay their rent and bills. Greece also has one of the lowest internet usage rates in the EU at 72 per cent. This suggests that some in the country could struggle to meet the 30 per cent target.
Southern Europe, particularly Greece, have booming shadow economies. A study by the Institute for Applied Economic Research in 2017 found that Greece had the largest in the world, being equivalent to 22 per cent of gross domestic product.
Individuals and businesses are enticed to under report earnings and avoid taxation due to high rates and cumbersome bureaucracy.
Tax evasion has been labelled a "Greek national sport" and it was estimated in 2016 to cost the country's coffers up to €16 billion every year, largely through fraud on VAT or income tax.
However, Mr Mitsotakis' government is cutting the tax burden of workers and businesses in an attempt to shock the Greek economy back into life.
Greece has returned to growth but its economy remains sluggish with output still a quarter below pre financial crisis levels.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/greeks-set-to-face-heavy-fines-if-they-don-t-spend-30-per-cent-of-their-income-electronically-20191209-p53i14.html
....
Greece has imposed fines for citizens that fail to spend 30% of their income electronically.
They claim this policy is implemented to cut down on tax evasion, for which greece is notorious for. We've witnessed similar anti tax evasion strategies unrolled in india. There is a question mark as to whether these measures are imposed with the intent to cut tax evasion, or whether they are anti cash policies utilized in an effort to further a cashless society paradigm.
There's a second relevent angle where tax cuts are utilized in an effort to bolster tax revenues, which is counter intuitive in regard to how many view tax policies. Some believe tax cuts can only result in decreased tax revenues, which is not necessarily the case due to it having the potential to cut tax evasion:
Quote
Individuals and businesses are enticed to under report earnings and avoid taxation due to high rates and cumbersome bureaucracy.
However, Mr Mitsotakis' government is cutting the tax burden of workers and businesses in an attempt to shock the Greek economy back into life.
However, Mr Mitsotakis' government is cutting the tax burden of workers and businesses in an attempt to shock the Greek economy back into life.
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