all middle class should have home solar power
Solar power is good for running air conditioning in the middle of the day. Electric cars charge at night.
Topic: 'Green Cars' - page 2. (Read 4667 times)
Solar power is good for running air conditioning in the middle of the day. Electric cars charge at night.
all middle class should have home solar power
It's debatable whether fuel distribution to filling stations is less efficient than electrical distribution through the national grid. Power stations are generally quite efficient, modern fossil fueled plants can achieve 98% efficiency, but the grid looses from 40% to 60% of that.
Um, no. This is backwards. The grid is around 95% efficient. Typical fossil fuel power plants are limited by endoreversible thermodynamic efficiency to somewhere around 45%. Co-generation plants might achieve 75% efficiency in the ideal case.
Quote from: wikipedia
Transmission and distribution losses in the USA were estimated at 6.6% in 1997[10] and 6.5% in 2007.[10]
What are your views towards electric cars? They are advertised as 'green' due to a much lower consumption of fossil fuels. However, in order to create the batteries for these cars, there has been a massive spike in rare earth mining in more recent years. The processes that yield these rare earth elements are not green at all. They utilize diesel machinery, a plethora of chemical agents for refining, and do it in such a way that it is non-sustainable. Mind you, the majority of REEs come from China as well, where they are even more lax in regards to both protecting the environment and protecting the workers.
I personally believe that the concept of these vehicles is an excellent one, but the current processes taken to create them do not really help the environment at all. Instead the extent of damage to the environment is just shifting hands, from the car owners to the people mining these resources.
Of course, rare earth elements go into many other devices, such as phones, tablets, surgical equipments, but a large amount of demand recently has been due to this notion that green cars are actually green.
I worked on a team in the EcoCAR competition a few years back, which, among other things, had a goal of making the "most green car". Trust me when I say car manufacturers are thinking about far more than fuel when they design these cars. Granted, marketing is surely putting a spin on things, but there are a lot of other factors to consider. In actuality, we found (from GM's own analysis tools) that creating an all-electric car is much less green than you might think. It's still a Really Good Thing™, but you have to consider other things as well. I personally believe that the concept of these vehicles is an excellent one, but the current processes taken to create them do not really help the environment at all. Instead the extent of damage to the environment is just shifting hands, from the car owners to the people mining these resources.
Of course, rare earth elements go into many other devices, such as phones, tablets, surgical equipments, but a large amount of demand recently has been due to this notion that green cars are actually green.
We had to do a "Well-to-Wheel analysis" on the vehicle, and found that all-electric vehicles weren't coming out so great after all. We found that a plugin hybrid electric vehicle was in fact the way to go, but preferred a smaller battery. I believe the Volt's general logic is something along the lines of "run on electricity as much as you can" whereas we preferred to make more intelligent decisions on when to choose gas over electric.
You did pick up on the battery, but you missed the big one: That electricity has to come from somewhere. It is a sad fact that most of our grid power comes from Coal right now, though that seems to be in decline. Now admittedly, not everyone in the world uses coal power, but when you're doing an analysis like this, you take averages. So effectively more than 50% of our electricity used was being counted as if it came from Coal. That's not very green at all. You just moved the problem.
I do think the Volt is a step in the right direction, but I bought a new car last year, and it was not a volt. Not because I couldn't afford it, but because I don't think we've solved the problem yet. That being said, there is something to be said for putting more demand on the electric grid - if it increases, eventually someone will start thinking about how we can start decommissioning these coal power plants.
You're ignoring the Volkswagen XL1, or its predecessor.
What are your views towards electric cars? They are advertised as 'green' due to a much lower consumption of fossil fuels. However, in order to create the batteries for these cars, there has been a massive spike in rare earth mining in more recent years. The processes that yield these rare earth elements are not green at all. They utilize diesel machinery, a plethora of chemical agents for refining, and do it in such a way that it is non-sustainable. Mind you, the majority of REEs come from China as well, where they are even more lax in regards to both protecting the environment and protecting the workers.
I personally believe that the concept of these vehicles is an excellent one, but the current processes taken to create them do not really help the environment at all. Instead the extent of damage to the environment is just shifting hands, from the car owners to the people mining these resources.
Of course, rare earth elements go into many other devices, such as phones, tablets, surgical equipments, but a large amount of demand recently has been due to this notion that green cars are actually green.
I worked on a team in the EcoCAR competition a few years back, which, among other things, had a goal of making the "most green car". Trust me when I say car manufacturers are thinking about far more than fuel when they design these cars. Granted, marketing is surely putting a spin on things, but there are a lot of other factors to consider. In actuality, we found (from GM's own analysis tools) that creating an all-electric car is much less green than you might think. It's still a Really Good Thing™, but you have to consider other things as well. I personally believe that the concept of these vehicles is an excellent one, but the current processes taken to create them do not really help the environment at all. Instead the extent of damage to the environment is just shifting hands, from the car owners to the people mining these resources.
Of course, rare earth elements go into many other devices, such as phones, tablets, surgical equipments, but a large amount of demand recently has been due to this notion that green cars are actually green.
We had to do a "Well-to-Wheel analysis" on the vehicle, and found that all-electric vehicles weren't coming out so great after all. We found that a plugin hybrid electric vehicle was in fact the way to go, but preferred a smaller battery. I believe the Volt's general logic is something along the lines of "run on electricity as much as you can" whereas we preferred to make more intelligent decisions on when to choose gas over electric.
You did pick up on the battery, but you missed the big one: That electricity has to come from somewhere. It is a sad fact that most of our grid power comes from Coal right now, though that seems to be in decline. Now admittedly, not everyone in the world uses coal power, but when you're doing an analysis like this, you take averages. So effectively more than 50% of our electricity used was being counted as if it came from Coal. That's not very green at all. You just moved the problem.
I do think the Volt is a step in the right direction, but I bought a new car last year, and it was not a volt. Not because I couldn't afford it, but because I don't think we've solved the problem yet. That being said, there is something to be said for putting more demand on the electric grid - if it increases, eventually someone will start thinking about how we can start decommissioning these coal power plants.
consider all the cost of transporting gasoline to the stations. power grids are already setup. most houses can charge the cars. only thing that is semi needed is charge stations to replace gas stations perhaps swipe your card and pay 50% premium for electricity away from home
what have they done
Notice how every car now looks like an un-aerodynamic tank? That stupidity originated in Europe, when insurance companies discovered that it's more cost-effective to hit cyclists without breaking their legs. Now literally more gasoline is wasted driving inefficient, stupid-looking cars than is saved by the hipsters who ride bikes around thinking they're being ecologically friendly.
simple thing...when you're building these roads these days you have a better vision of the use. in the 1950s & 60s I guess Europe & USA envisioned cheap oil for 100 years
what have they done
Notice how every car now looks like an un-aerodynamic tank? That stupidity originated in Europe, when insurance companies discovered that it's more cost-effective to hit cyclists without breaking their legs. Now literally more gasoline is wasted driving inefficient, stupid-looking cars than is saved by the hipsters who ride bikes around thinking they're being ecologically friendly.
For a lot of saloon cars with a steep rear window, you can improve aerodynamic efficiency by a few percent by installing vortex generators - if anyone's interested I can explain how to size them, because unfortunately basically every kit on the market is made for massive twatsicles who put VGs on because they think it looks "sporty" and massively over-size them which just makes things worse.
Here in Ontario, most power comes from Nuclear (Hydro takes 2nd place). I believe all fossil fuel plants are scheduled to be shut down in 2014.
I should have qualified that with "most power in the US" 
I know very little about this stuff outside of what I learned from this project, which was very US-focused, even if we had some Canadian teams. I am a software engineer, and don't think about these things very often I now know a hell of a lot about how to develop a hybrid control system, but very little about how to... well... change a tire.
What are your views towards electric cars? They are advertised as 'green' due to a much lower consumption of fossil fuels. However, in order to create the batteries for these cars, there has been a massive spike in rare earth mining in more recent years. The processes that yield these rare earth elements are not green at all. They utilize diesel machinery, a plethora of chemical agents for refining, and do it in such a way that it is non-sustainable. Mind you, the majority of REEs come from China as well, where they are even more lax in regards to both protecting the environment and protecting the workers.
I personally believe that the concept of these vehicles is an excellent one, but the current processes taken to create them do not really help the environment at all. Instead the extent of damage to the environment is just shifting hands, from the car owners to the people mining these resources.
Of course, rare earth elements go into many other devices, such as phones, tablets, surgical equipments, but a large amount of demand recently has been due to this notion that green cars are actually green.
I worked on a team in the EcoCAR competition a few years back, which, among other things, had a goal of making the "most green car". Trust me when I say car manufacturers are thinking about far more than fuel when they design these cars. Granted, marketing is surely putting a spin on things, but there are a lot of other factors to consider. In actuality, we found (from GM's own analysis tools) that creating an all-electric car is much less green than you might think. It's still a Really Good Thing™, but you have to consider other things as well. I personally believe that the concept of these vehicles is an excellent one, but the current processes taken to create them do not really help the environment at all. Instead the extent of damage to the environment is just shifting hands, from the car owners to the people mining these resources.
Of course, rare earth elements go into many other devices, such as phones, tablets, surgical equipments, but a large amount of demand recently has been due to this notion that green cars are actually green.
We had to do a "Well-to-Wheel analysis" on the vehicle, and found that all-electric vehicles weren't coming out so great after all. We found that a plugin hybrid electric vehicle was in fact the way to go, but preferred a smaller battery. I believe the Volt's general logic is something along the lines of "run on electricity as much as you can" whereas we preferred to make more intelligent decisions on when to choose gas over electric.
You did pick up on the battery, but you missed the big one: That electricity has to come from somewhere. It is a sad fact that most of our grid power comes from Coal right now, though that seems to be in decline. Now admittedly, not everyone in the world uses coal power, but when you're doing an analysis like this, you take averages. So effectively more than 50% of our electricity used was being counted as if it came from Coal. That's not very green at all. You just moved the problem.
I do think the Volt is a step in the right direction, but I bought a new car last year, and it was not a volt. Not because I couldn't afford it, but because I don't think we've solved the problem yet. That being said, there is something to be said for putting more demand on the electric grid - if it increases, eventually someone will start thinking about how we can start decommissioning these coal power plants.
What are your views towards electric cars? They are advertised as 'green' due to a much lower consumption of fossil fuels. However, in order to create the batteries for these cars, there has been a massive spike in rare earth mining in more recent years. The processes that yield these rare earth elements are not green at all. They utilize diesel machinery, a plethora of chemical agents for refining, and do it in such a way that it is non-sustainable. Mind you, the majority of REEs come from China as well, where they are even more lax in regards to both protecting the environment and protecting the workers.
I personally believe that the concept of these vehicles is an excellent one, but the current processes taken to create them do not really help the environment at all. Instead the extent of damage to the environment is just shifting hands, from the car owners to the people mining these resources.
Of course, rare earth elements go into many other devices, such as phones, tablets, surgical equipments, but a large amount of demand recently has been due to this notion that green cars are actually green.
I worked on a team in the EcoCAR competition a few years back, which, among other things, had a goal of making the "most green car". Trust me when I say car manufacturers are thinking about far more than fuel when they design these cars. Granted, marketing is surely putting a spin on things, but there are a lot of other factors to consider. In actuality, we found (from GM's own analysis tools) that creating an all-electric car is much less green than you might think. It's still a Really Good Thing™, but you have to consider other things as well. I personally believe that the concept of these vehicles is an excellent one, but the current processes taken to create them do not really help the environment at all. Instead the extent of damage to the environment is just shifting hands, from the car owners to the people mining these resources.
Of course, rare earth elements go into many other devices, such as phones, tablets, surgical equipments, but a large amount of demand recently has been due to this notion that green cars are actually green.
We had to do a "Well-to-Wheel analysis" on the vehicle, and found that all-electric vehicles weren't coming out so great after all. We found that a plugin hybrid electric vehicle was in fact the way to go, but preferred a smaller battery. I believe the Volt's general logic is something along the lines of "run on electricity as much as you can" whereas we preferred to make more intelligent decisions on when to choose gas over electric.
You did pick up on the battery, but you missed the big one: That electricity has to come from somewhere. It is a sad fact that most of our grid power comes from Coal right now, though that seems to be in decline. Now admittedly, not everyone in the world uses coal power, but when you're doing an analysis like this, you take averages. So effectively more than 50% of our electricity used was being counted as if it came from Coal. That's not very green at all. You just moved the problem.
I do think the Volt is a step in the right direction, but I bought a new car last year, and it was not a volt. Not because I couldn't afford it, but because I don't think we've solved the problem yet. That being said, there is something to be said for putting more demand on the electric grid - if it increases, eventually someone will start thinking about how we can start decommissioning these coal power plants.
what have they done
Notice how every car now looks like an un-aerodynamic tank? That stupidity originated in Europe, when insurance companies discovered that it's more cost-effective to hit cyclists without breaking their legs. Now literally more gasoline is wasted driving inefficient, stupid-looking cars than is saved by the hipsters who ride bikes around thinking they're being ecologically friendly.
If everyone rode bikes, no one would have to redesign cars to be total aerodynamic crap-heaps...
And the amount of fatal collisions would drop down to next to nothing...
And no one would buy gas to commute...
And no one would be too fat...
(And the demand for food would skyrocket. Oh, wait... That's happening anyways.)
And the amount of fatal collisions would drop down to next to nothing...
And no one would buy gas to commute...
And no one would be too fat...
(And the demand for food would skyrocket. Oh, wait... That's happening anyways.)
what have they done
Notice how every car now looks like an un-aerodynamic tank? That stupidity originated in Europe, when insurance companies discovered that it's more cost-effective to hit cyclists without breaking their legs. Now literally more gasoline is wasted driving inefficient, stupid-looking cars than is saved by the hipsters who ride bikes around thinking they're being ecologically friendly.
Your half way there, European regulations require all cars to be fitted with automatic breaking systems from 2014. I'm going to have great fun on the bike setting those off
European safety regulations have absolutely ruined cars nowadays. Thanks, assholes.
what have they done
Your half way there, European regulations require all cars to be fitted with automatic breaking systems from 2014. I'm going to have great fun on the bike setting those off
European safety regulations have absolutely ruined cars nowadays. Thanks, assholes.
2012 plugin toyota prius, anyone know the mile range? plus how many miles it goes on its own gas tank
Your half way there, European regulations require all cars to be fitted with automatic breaking systems from 2014. I'm going to have great fun on the bike setting those off
Until you mistake a 2013 for a 2014. 
I'd like to see cars drive themselves. Imagine a intelligently operated system that is maintaining and monitoring the flow of each vehicle.
All you do is enter in the address where you would like to go like many do now with GPS and wait.
Even with gas powered cars the savings in fuel would be massive since we would eliminate all the floor it to the next stop light drivers and reduce/eliminate congestion.
Cars then could be run on smaller more efficient motors/gear ratios since you wont go over the speed limit and we wouldn't need to ever worry about traffic tickets, DUI's and accident related deaths/injuries again.
All you do is enter in the address where you would like to go like many do now with GPS and wait.
Even with gas powered cars the savings in fuel would be massive since we would eliminate all the floor it to the next stop light drivers and reduce/eliminate congestion.
Cars then could be run on smaller more efficient motors/gear ratios since you wont go over the speed limit and we wouldn't need to ever worry about traffic tickets, DUI's and accident related deaths/injuries again.
What are your views towards electric cars? They are advertised as 'green' due to a much lower consumption of fossil fuels. However, in order to create the batteries for these cars, there has been a massive spike in rare earth mining in more recent years. The processes that yield these rare earth elements are not green at all. They utilize diesel machinery, a plethora of chemical agents for refining, and do it in such a way that it is non-sustainable. Mind you, the majority of REEs come from China as well, where they are even more lax in regards to both protecting the environment and protecting the workers.
I personally believe that the concept of these vehicles is an excellent one, but the current processes taken to create them do not really help the environment at all. Instead the extent of damage to the environment is just shifting hands, from the car owners to the people mining these resources.
Of course, rare earth elements go into many other devices, such as phones, tablets, surgical equipments, but a large amount of demand recently has been due to this notion that green cars are actually green.
Share your thoughts.
I personally believe that the concept of these vehicles is an excellent one, but the current processes taken to create them do not really help the environment at all. Instead the extent of damage to the environment is just shifting hands, from the car owners to the people mining these resources.
Of course, rare earth elements go into many other devices, such as phones, tablets, surgical equipments, but a large amount of demand recently has been due to this notion that green cars are actually green.
Share your thoughts.
Electric cars are slowly becoming better and better. Right now they either are too expensive or have too limited range. The rare earth issue is much less of an issue then it is made out to be though.
Regular cars use lots of rare earths and nickel (in the metals and the cat) which is just as dirty as the rare earths in batteries. Most of these metals in both the cat and in electric car batteries are collected and recycled now.
I've thought about the most efficient automobile designs, and found this concept interesting. This seems like the apex of efficiency if it can be safely built and put into production.
Aerodynamically however it's rubbish 
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