Topic: Grexit (Read 8150 times)
I don't like what Tsipras had to do but then, what was the alternative?? Without the ECB providing euro liquidity to Greek banks, Greece will have no choice but to start printing a highly inflationary drachma that will have dire consequences on the Greek public that they are only just beginning to feel the tip of.
Zerohedge presents a nice POV of mr D. McWilliams. I'm not afraid to admit, I concur in all aspects.
‘Plan B’ Needed As Euro One Recession Away From Implosion - David McWilliams
- Euro is one recession away from implosion - David McWilliams
- Mismanagement of euro “both laughable and terrifying”
- “When economic negotiations stop making economic sense, you should begin to question the motives of the EU”
- Germany is out of control
- Successful British exit will be model for other countries
- Euro membership is now conditional
- “Countries that don't play ball with Germany will see their banking system used against their democratically elected politicians”
- Investors and savers need “PLAN B”
Europe’s next recession will “kill the euro” according to economist, writer and journalist David McWilliams.
Full article here: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-16/%E2%80%98plan-b%E2%80%99-needed-euro-one-recession-away-implosion-david-mcwilliams
‘Plan B’ Needed As Euro One Recession Away From Implosion - David McWilliams
- Euro is one recession away from implosion - David McWilliams
- Mismanagement of euro “both laughable and terrifying”
- “When economic negotiations stop making economic sense, you should begin to question the motives of the EU”
- Germany is out of control
- Successful British exit will be model for other countries
- Euro membership is now conditional
- “Countries that don't play ball with Germany will see their banking system used against their democratically elected politicians”
- Investors and savers need “PLAN B”
Europe’s next recession will “kill the euro” according to economist, writer and journalist David McWilliams.
Full article here: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-16/%E2%80%98plan-b%E2%80%99-needed-euro-one-recession-away-implosion-david-mcwilliams
Nice article from Forbes concerning the Greek crisis by John T. Harvey. Worthy reading.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2015/07/07/five-reasons-greeks-were-right/
Quote
Five Reasons Why The Greeks Were Right
On Sunday, Greek citizens overwhelming rejected the bailout plan penned by its creditors. Subsequently, many observers have condemned the Greeks as lazy, ungrateful and unwilling to accept the consequences of their spendthrift ways.
But the Greeks were right to say no. What lenders were trying to force upon them is patently unfair and ultimately destructive to the entire EU. The real problems are inherent to the euro system itself and treating Greece like an irresponsible teenager who must be scolded by their parents is both a mis-diagnosis and a guarantee of continued problems.
On Sunday, Greek citizens overwhelming rejected the bailout plan penned by its creditors. Subsequently, many observers have condemned the Greeks as lazy, ungrateful and unwilling to accept the consequences of their spendthrift ways.
But the Greeks were right to say no. What lenders were trying to force upon them is patently unfair and ultimately destructive to the entire EU. The real problems are inherent to the euro system itself and treating Greece like an irresponsible teenager who must be scolded by their parents is both a mis-diagnosis and a guarantee of continued problems.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2015/07/07/five-reasons-greeks-were-right/
Greece debt crisis: 'No concrete plan' before summit
Greece has submitted "no concrete proposals" for a new bailout, at a key meeting of eurozone finance ministers, Malta's PM says.
Joseph Muscat tweeted that this "doesn't help this evening's eurozone leaders' meeting" in Brussels.
The eurozone had urged Greece to submit fresh plans after its people rejected a new draft bailout in a referendum.
Greek PM Alexis Tsipras is to address the European Parliament on Wednesday, a Greek government source said.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33426328
Tomorrow Tsipras will address the EU leaders. This is it. The "End Game".
News update:
It seems even though that a new set of measures have not been proposed, mr Tsakalotos presented Greece's new plan to the EwG and mr Dijsselbloem said that "they were pretty good". Didn't rule out a new deal. Hmm...
Greece has submitted "no concrete proposals" for a new bailout, at a key meeting of eurozone finance ministers, Malta's PM says.
Joseph Muscat tweeted that this "doesn't help this evening's eurozone leaders' meeting" in Brussels.
The eurozone had urged Greece to submit fresh plans after its people rejected a new draft bailout in a referendum.
Greek PM Alexis Tsipras is to address the European Parliament on Wednesday, a Greek government source said.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33426328
Tomorrow Tsipras will address the EU leaders. This is it. The "End Game".
News update:
It seems even though that a new set of measures have not been proposed, mr Tsakalotos presented Greece's new plan to the EwG and mr Dijsselbloem said that "they were pretty good". Didn't rule out a new deal. Hmm...
Greece will stay in EU. It is nice country with a lot of tourists from Germany, UK e.t.c. Just EU member countries will agree to cover all Greece expenses 
The Greece economy is doomed along with most of the Western world
Unfortunately bitcoin alone will not save them
Uncontrolled spending has ruined many great civilizations over the centuries
Boom and bust cycles will continue forever
Unfortunately bitcoin alone will not save them
Uncontrolled spending has ruined many great civilizations over the centuries
Boom and bust cycles will continue forever
What if Greek banks start to print euro? 50 billion a month? 
As per the European Union rules and regulations, the National Bank of Greece has the right to print/mint Euro banknotes and coins, just like all the other national central banks in the EU. However, this does not mean that they can print any amount of Euros as they want. They can print only as many notes, as the Emergency Liquidity Assistance (ELA) allows.
but whats to stop them, I mean if they want to print and they say scre the EU they can just print. It seems un enforceable
Just fire up the printing press I mean thats what FIAT does anyway via the banking system, this would solve several problems as greeks would have cash then and there is a mandate via the referendum.
FIAT's main function is bring capital and about together more efficiently than barter (thought its more about debt and stripming wealth / value from productive work).
So run those presses.
What if Greek banks start to print euro? 50 billion a month?
this is exactly what I thought whats to stop them doing this they have the tech I think to just print eu identical to any other, or could get it, and print their way out of it.
So this means that when they axe the euro (bound to happen) they will make their own currency?
They are in talks with Russia as we speak. Maybe Putin will pay off the economies debt in exchange for loyality to them.
They are in talks with Russia as we speak. Maybe Putin will pay off the economies debt in exchange for loyality to them.
It sounds a bit fantastic, no one will pay their debt knowing that they will repay it back, greece can't handle their own economy, they proven numerous times to be shit at managing it
their own currency would be dracma, but it would not come with a good value if they were to use it again
Here it comes:
Well, he has it right. I could not agree more, since the EU French & German leaders have been censured for their myopia in treating a non-payable debt as "healthy". This is seriously hurting the EU idea and establishment. Tsipras had his chance to go forth and initiate a more "flexible" policy in order Greece to overcome this issue and prepare the road for the bumps ahead.
Armstrong keeps predicting that the containment is about to happen on October 1st 2015. I can't argue, nor agree since this date is not here yet and I cannot understand his semantics in order to make such a bold prediction. I do have in mind though that he predicted (among other things) the Lehman Brothers fiasco back in 2008, with great accuracy, and that truly worries me...
http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/34627
Quote
German Chancellor Angela Merkel and her French counterpart Francois Hollande have called on Greece to make “serious” proposals. There is no such thing as debt forgiveness as the German’s received in 1953. Merkel has sold the Euro under the pretense there would be no bailout for southern Europe. Any money lent must be repaid. So it does not matter that the underlying structure cannot support that expectation. Her personal career now depends upon that event no matter how unreasonable.
Greek PM Alexis Tsipras is due to address a summit of Eurozone leaders on Tuesday. However, he is ignoring his own mandate – end austerity. Why he continues to try to even negotiate with the EU when it is clear the same line of thinking that has created the crisis will not provide a solution. This entire Euro Crisis will spread between not and October and things are going to get worse before they get better. So do not expect the Euro or the markets to understand this instantly. They do not comprehend just yet the depth of this crisis.
Greek PM Alexis Tsipras is due to address a summit of Eurozone leaders on Tuesday. However, he is ignoring his own mandate – end austerity. Why he continues to try to even negotiate with the EU when it is clear the same line of thinking that has created the crisis will not provide a solution. This entire Euro Crisis will spread between not and October and things are going to get worse before they get better. So do not expect the Euro or the markets to understand this instantly. They do not comprehend just yet the depth of this crisis.
Well, he has it right. I could not agree more, since the EU French & German leaders have been censured for their myopia in treating a non-payable debt as "healthy". This is seriously hurting the EU idea and establishment. Tsipras had his chance to go forth and initiate a more "flexible" policy in order Greece to overcome this issue and prepare the road for the bumps ahead.
Armstrong keeps predicting that the containment is about to happen on October 1st 2015. I can't argue, nor agree since this date is not here yet and I cannot understand his semantics in order to make such a bold prediction. I do have in mind though that he predicted (among other things) the Lehman Brothers fiasco back in 2008, with great accuracy, and that truly worries me...
http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/34627
The result of the referendum is a "No". It is the Grexit time. Greeks need to restructure their policies ,now that they're out of Euro Zone. Many subsidies and benefits have been taken away from it. There is no time to back down now, the economy needs a boost.
Let's just say that this is not certain yet and many things have to be considered in order for such an exit to happen. Even in Germany the rhetoric has been changed. FWIW: I don't see this as a bad thing though; for Greece that is...
No this outcome is going to be beneficial long term to Greece as it provides them with the leverage they need to negotiate to stay or leave the EU and forced people to take a second look at it.
The question is if Italy Spain and other countries will soon join them
So this means that when they axe the euro (bound to happen) they will make their own currency?
They are in talks with Russia as we speak. Maybe Putin will pay off the economies debt in exchange for loyality to them.
They are in talks with Russia as we speak. Maybe Putin will pay off the economies debt in exchange for loyality to them.
It is getting real hard in Europe now russia said it will help Greece if they bailout
Russia should maybe focus helping their own people instead of donating Greeks, because compare to Germany, they are in deep shit:) those games just putting political interests over human needs..
You did know Greece did forgive the german debt to them right? (I think it was 1954) look what is germany doing now. Miss merkel is the biggest screamer, some do even believe (NSA reports) that she already knew from the beginning helping greece would be a failure, the same finger as russia is giving to america and europe now.
Prepare for WWIII is maybe a bit to much, but shitpile is going to get bigger
It is getting real hard in Europe now russia said it will help Greece if they bailout
Russia should maybe focus helping their own people instead of donating Greeks, because compared to Germany, they are in deep shit:) these games just putting political interests over human needs are just stupid.
It is getting real hard in Europe now russia said it will help Greece if they bailout
The result of the referendum is a "No". It is the Grexit time. Greeks need to restructure their policies ,now that they're out of Euro Zone. Many subsidies and benefits have been taken away from it. There is no time to back down now, the economy needs a boost.
Let's just say that this is not certain yet and many things have to be considered in order for such an exit to happen. Even in Germany the rhetoric has been changed. FWIW: I don't see this as a bad thing though; for Greece that is...
The result of the referendum is a "No". It is the Grexit time. Greeks need to restructure their policies ,now that they're out of Euro Zone. Many subsidies and benefits have been taken away from it. There is no time to back down now, the economy needs a boost.
I think like Frau Merkel said: Europe cannot overlook the results of the referendum. That is why we will see talks starting again today or tommorow.
As i can tell from german news they are decreasing the grexit populism and are talking in a much more supportive way of the greece question. Even talking about debt relief.
Also it seems the US is pro Greece, im reading a lot of articles like this:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/06/germany-1953-greece-2015-economic-marshall-plan-debt-relief
As i can tell from german news they are decreasing the grexit populism and are talking in a much more supportive way of the greece question. Even talking about debt relief.
Also it seems the US is pro Greece, im reading a lot of articles like this:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/06/germany-1953-greece-2015-economic-marshall-plan-debt-relief
They can't ignore the big NO, but the can still keep pushing Greece to pay.. they will not give them anything for free. Greece is still facing a dead end with or without the NO.
I think like Frau Merkel said: Europe cannot overlook the results of the referendum. That is why we will see talks starting again today or tommorow.
As i can tell from german news they are decreasing the grexit populism and are talking in a much more supportive way of the greece question. Even talking about debt relief.
Also it seems the US is pro Greece, im reading a lot of articles like this:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/06/germany-1953-greece-2015-economic-marshall-plan-debt-relief
As i can tell from german news they are decreasing the grexit populism and are talking in a much more supportive way of the greece question. Even talking about debt relief.
Also it seems the US is pro Greece, im reading a lot of articles like this:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/06/germany-1953-greece-2015-economic-marshall-plan-debt-relief
Yes the IMF is desperate to get their hands on their money owed so they are trying hard to get everyone round the table for talks again so that they gradually get what they want and benefit themselves
The only option left for the troika is to renegotiate with Tsipras and his SYRIZA ministers. And this time, their position is much weaker. Almost two-thirds of the Greek public supports the position of Tsipras (as evident from the economy referendum), and the troika can't blackmail him anymore. Eat crow, troika!
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