Grexit - page 5. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Amph

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Quote from: criptix on July 04, 2015, 08:30:16 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 04, 2015, 08:02:53 AM

Quote from: johnyj on July 04, 2015, 06:27:14 AM

ECB is printing €60 billion per month, so it is a pocket change

Wrong. The ECB is printing €60 billion per year, and not per month. And only a small part of this is printed in Germany. Check this:

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/euro/circulation/html/index.en.html

For the month of May 2015, the ECB printed banknotes worth €5,474,705,800. Divided in to:

€5 - 7,570,130 notes worth €37,850,650
€10 - 15,418,060 notes worth €154,180,560
€20 - 14,236,370 notes worth €284,727,440
€50 - 71,172,090 notes worth €3,558,604,250
€100-12,410,700 notes worth €1,241,069,600
€200-117,130 notes worth €23,426,800
€500-349,690 notes worth €174,846,500

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ecb-announces-stimulus-plan-1421931011

You are halfwrong.
60 billion € per month for atleast a year.
What do you think was the reason for the dramatic loss against the dollar and the 50% increase in stock prices?

so the grexit has indirectly caused the euro loss against the dollar? also accelerated by other european countries with similiar issue, which were calling for loans, i presume, right?

criptix

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 04, 2015, 08:02:53 AM

Quote from: johnyj on July 04, 2015, 06:27:14 AM

ECB is printing €60 billion per month, so it is a pocket change

Wrong. The ECB is printing €60 billion per year, and not per month. And only a small part of this is printed in Germany. Check this:

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/euro/circulation/html/index.en.html

For the month of May 2015, the ECB printed banknotes worth €5,474,705,800. Divided in to:

€5 - 7,570,130 notes worth €37,850,650
€10 - 15,418,060 notes worth €154,180,560
€20 - 14,236,370 notes worth €284,727,440
€50 - 71,172,090 notes worth €3,558,604,250
€100-12,410,700 notes worth €1,241,069,600
€200-117,130 notes worth €23,426,800
€500-349,690 notes worth €174,846,500

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ecb-announces-stimulus-plan-1421931011

You are halfwrong.
60 billion € per month for atleast a year.
What do you think was the reason for the dramatic loss against the dollar and the 50% increase in stock prices?

macsga

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 04, 2015, 08:02:53 AM

Quote from: johnyj on July 04, 2015, 06:27:14 AM

ECB is printing €60 billion per month, so it is a pocket change

Wrong. The ECB is printing €60 billion per year, and not per month. And only a small part of this is printed in Germany. Check this:

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/euro/circulation/html/index.en.html

For the month of May 2015, the ECB printed banknotes worth €5,474,705,800. Divided in to:

€5 - 7,570,130 notes worth €37,850,650
€10 - 15,418,060 notes worth €154,180,560
€20 - 14,236,370 notes worth €284,727,440
€50 - 71,172,090 notes worth €3,558,604,250
€100-12,410,700 notes worth €1,241,069,600
€200-117,130 notes worth €23,426,800
€500-349,690 notes worth €174,846,500

Well, literally speaking, this is correct. But what about the "bonds" and "derivatives" that's being printed without any consent of the governments in the EU? I'm talking about the "money out of thin air" that we're supposed (as people) to pay in order to "bail out" the banks. All in all and to give a perspective here the total GDP of the WORLD is about 74 Trillion dollars while the total debt is 200 Trillion. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_world_product)

Yeah, everything is fine here, move along...

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: johnyj on July 04, 2015, 06:27:14 AM

ECB is printing €60 billion per month, so it is a pocket change

Wrong. The ECB is printing €60 billion per year, and not per month. And only a small part of this is printed in Germany. Check this:

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/euro/circulation/html/index.en.html

For the month of May 2015, the ECB printed banknotes worth €5,474,705,800. Divided in to:

€5 - 7,570,130 notes worth €37,850,650
€10 - 15,418,060 notes worth €154,180,560
€20 - 14,236,370 notes worth €284,727,440
€50 - 71,172,090 notes worth €3,558,604,250
€100-12,410,700 notes worth €1,241,069,600
€200-117,130 notes worth €23,426,800
€500-349,690 notes worth €174,846,500

macsga

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Quote from: johnyj on July 04, 2015, 06:24:08 AM

I heard about that many people have changed their stance from no to yes since bank started to limit withdraw. It seems banks still have the control, unless people's knowledge about money improves, they will still be the slave of bankers for a foreseeable future

That would be NOT true. On the contrary, contrarian voices from the right wing have joined forces with the leftists. It's the reverse psychology of the masses paradigm. You just have to piss some people off in order to achieve the contrary of what you're presenting. Of course, I cannot exclude the possibility the mass media introduced such a policy pro-"Yes" in order for the people go for "No" and the EU has a nice reasoning towards kicking Greece out... Tongue

V for Varoufakis

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Greece is leaving. Goodbye Merkel. Goodbye Schäuble. Grin

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 04, 2015, 03:51:39 AM

Quote from: criptix on July 03, 2015, 05:59:21 PM

no, just no. its only 90 billion over 5 years - tbh. that is more or less just pocketchange for the german state.
this here is about credibility and reliability of the EURO and the eurozone.

Do you think that €90 billion is a pocket change for Germany?

Definitely not. Even for the United States, €90 billion would have been a significant amount of money. Do you know that the total German tax revenues are around €330 billion per year? If they lose €90 billion, then it will represent a black hole of 6% of their tax revenues, for a period of five years. This will wipe-out the German budget surplus, and will start a recession in Germany.

ECB is printing €60 billion per month, so it is a pocket change

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

I heard about that many people have changed their stance from no to yes since bank started to limit withdraw. It seems banks still have the control, unless people's knowledge about money improves, they will still be the slave of bankers for a foreseeable future

bitcoinarchitecture

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Greece is staying, europe has too much riding on this.

macsga

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Quote from: criptix on July 04, 2015, 05:26:56 AM

please look at the german budget and tell me if there is deficit or surplus and since when. you could also add the rating of german solvency.
germany could easily take 20 billion in debt every year for the next 5 years.

my point still stands, a loss off 90 billion in greece would not damage germany on a important scale.

Even though I agree with you (ie: check FED's "We'll print more" policy) they simply won't do it. Austerity is the only tactics they know. Greece is simply the canary in the coalmine. The first one to go - it's a rough paradigm for the others that will eventually follow. On the other hand, it's not really a matter of politics, rather than a regional IQ test. I fail to see why a bright idea of a solid global economy should be implemented if we - as people - fail to help each other in order to build one...

criptix

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Quote from: greBit on July 04, 2015, 04:13:24 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 04, 2015, 03:51:39 AM

Quote from: criptix on July 03, 2015, 05:59:21 PM

no, just no. its only 90 billion over 5 years - tbh. that is more or less just pocketchange for the german state.
this here is about credibility and reliability of the EURO and the eurozone.

Do you think that €90 billion is a pocket change for Germany?

Definitely not. Even for the United States, €90 billion would have been a significant amount of money. Do you know that the total German tax revenues are around €330 billion per year? If they lose €90 billion, then it will represent a black hole of 6% of their tax revenues, for a period of five years. This will wipe-out the German budget surplus, and will start a recession in Germany.

'just 90BILLION EUROS'. Are you kidding me? Exactly, it would create a black hole in their economy. A period of 5years or maybe more, the recession would hit Germany because of the loss of this huge sum of money. It is a big amount for all countries, man. if a country is not making good use of its surplus budget, it is indirectly loss for them too.

please look at the german budget and tell me if there is deficit or surplus and since when. you could also add the rating of german solvency.
germany could easily take 20 billion in debt every year for the next 5 years.

my point still stands, a loss of 90 billion in greece would not damage germany on a important scale.

macsga

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Quote from: dinofelis on July 04, 2015, 05:02:37 AM

Quote from: macsga on July 04, 2015, 03:08:38 AM

I agree. Do you *really* see this happening though? Is there a way? I think that if ANYONE deploys ANY tactics for an "exit" whether it's a GR-or BR or AU, the ship will have a breach and one by one countries will begin to step out. Nothing to worry about though. Germany will still be there... Wink

If many countries desire leaving the Eurozone, then why should one try to stop them ?

First of, there's no official directive for a country to leave the Eurozone. The initial treaty failed to introduce such an "option". I believe you're smart enough to understand why...

Second: Having another currency and still being into the Eurozone? Hmm... let me think. No I cannot think of any other country doing so... Oh wait! England!

Third: Do you really think that mr. Juncker is telling the truth and Yanis doesn't? Why wouldn't be vice versa?

All in all, let me tell you my thesis:
Eurozone has been created to advance the civilization to the next level. If the experiment fails because the fat lady is afraid to understand that the GLOBAL economy is failing - and prefers to address it only to a single country, then I'll say it as politely as I can:

By all means, let Greece go.

Invent a directive that EVERY country in debt, that cannot pay, should be banned. No questions asked. Why should we test if the country's debt is odious? Dump this. Let's get it done and over with. Austerity is better than solidarity and the mass media say the truth!

Well... What can I say? Maybe I'm just a stubborn Greek that doesn't buy it.

dinofelis

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Quote from: macsga on July 04, 2015, 03:08:38 AM

I agree. Do you *really* see this happening though? Is there a way? I think that if ANYONE deploys ANY tactics for an "exit" whether it's a GR-or BR or AU, the ship will have a breach and one by one countries will begin to step out. Nothing to worry about though. Germany will still be there... Wink

If many countries desire leaving the Eurozone, then why should one try to stop them ?

dinofelis

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Quote from: macsga on July 03, 2015, 04:57:12 PM

According to this article: http://www.enikonomia.gr/timeliness/27275,Baroyfakhs-Exoyme-symfwnia-poy-8a-ypografame-amesa.html
mr Varoufakis revealed to the Channel 4's journalist that "Right now we have a proposal that we'd accept right away". And continues: "since we announced the referendum, we've been bombarded with offers that if we had earlier, we'd never go for a referendum".

... except that that was not true, as the Eurogroup president told later. There are no discussions going on with Greece. And Merkel has stated that in any case, she doesn't talk to Greece any more before monday. Without Merkel's agreement, all propositions are just hot air.

Quote

So, it's basically a "means of pressure" in order to achieve a viable deal that won't ruin the country with more austerity measures and deliver the long awaited economic (and thus social) growth. Besides, it's very well known that EVEN A COUNTRY WANTED, they couldn't flee the Eurozone. It's not documented nor allowed by the initial treaty. So, no Grexit.

That's an administrative quirk. Of course a country can officially stay in the Eurozone, with not a single bank working in Euro's, with all ECB credit lines saturated (hence non-existant) and with another currency in parallel.

If the ECB doesn't open the credit lines to Greek banks, then those Greek banks will go broke from the moment they open their offices. Once they are broke, and people lost all their money in Euro there, nothing stops Greece from introducing a parallel central bank giving out IOUs called Drachme, and set up new banks with that money. That's de facto leaving the Euro even though officially they are still a member.

"being a member of the Euro zone" doesn't actually mean anything. What means something, is: can banks get a credit line from the ECB ?

Quote

What's significant though is the fact that many "everyday" people ask about bitcoin here. How they can buy it - how to use it, etc. People start to "get" it. That's the best part of this crisis.

Indeed.

Amph

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Quote from: macsga on July 04, 2015, 03:08:38 AM

Quote from: Amph on July 04, 2015, 02:59:31 AM

Quote from: Scamc0p on July 03, 2015, 04:25:50 PM

Quote from: V for Varoufakis on July 03, 2015, 04:16:27 PM

Grexit is coming. EU is ready?

Grexit is ?

the exit of greece from europe, it would only be benefical for europe at this point it's not good for europe to continue lending them money that they cannot return

better to take them out

I agree. Do you *really* see this happening though? Is there a way? I think that if ANYONE deploys ANY tactics for an "exit" whether it's a GR-or BR or AU, the ship will have a breach and one by one countries will begin to step out. Nothing to worry about though. Germany will still be there... Wink

ah yeah i remember reading about that possibility, but to be honest it's a pure speculation, i doubt that if some country will go out, the rest will follow? why should they? greece isn't going out because they want, but because they cannot pay their debt back, other EU countries do nothave any reason to go out, they are not in the same situation

V for Varoufakis

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ATM in Greece gives drachmas! lol Grin

http://www.makeleio.gr/?p=382680

greBit

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 04, 2015, 03:51:39 AM

Quote from: criptix on July 03, 2015, 05:59:21 PM

no, just no. its only 90 billion over 5 years - tbh. that is more or less just pocketchange for the german state.
this here is about credibility and reliability of the EURO and the eurozone.

Do you think that €90 billion is a pocket change for Germany?

Definitely not. Even for the United States, €90 billion would have been a significant amount of money. Do you know that the total German tax revenues are around €330 billion per year? If they lose €90 billion, then it will represent a black hole of 6% of their tax revenues, for a period of five years. This will wipe-out the German budget surplus, and will start a recession in Germany.

'just 90BILLION EUROS'. Are you kidding me? Exactly, it would create a black hole in their economy. A period of 5years or maybe more, the recession would hit Germany because of the loss of this huge sum of money. It is a big amount for all countries, man. if a country is not making good use of its surplus budget, it is indirectly loss for them too.

qiwoman2

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Oikos.cash | Decentralized Finance on Tron

Quote from: macsga on July 04, 2015, 03:26:51 AM

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on July 04, 2015, 03:05:44 AM

Greek banks prepare plan to raid deposits to avert collapse - Financial Times

The plans, which call for a “haircut” of at least 30 per cent on deposits above €8,000, sketch out an increasingly likely scenario for at least one bank, the sources said.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/9963b74c-219c-11e5-aa5a-398b2169cf79.html

Greek official denies this and calls for propaganda from FT. I don't see this is an possible scenario though, but just in case it is, I even don't believe they will break the 100,000 Euro rule that the EU has signed. This is just another means of pressure for the upcoming referendum.

Link:
https://news.makedonias.gr/132330/%CE%B7-%CE%BB%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BA%CE%B1-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CF%84%CF%83%CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%B7-%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%B1%CF%88%CE%B5%CF%85%CE%B4%CE%B5%CE%B9-%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85%CF%83-ft-%CE%BF%CE%B9-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CF%84/

This is all scare tactics and fear mongering from all the big right wing and capitalist pressure that's happening with all the mass media abroad and in Greece at the moment. There is so much pressure being imposed on the Greek people to vote yes in the referendum, the Elite are using EVERY mechanism in their power to disrupt a totally democratic process. The right wing governments in Europe want to impose their will on the Greeks and to topple the SYRIZA govt.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: criptix on July 03, 2015, 05:59:21 PM

no, just no. its only 90 billion over 5 years - tbh. that is more or less just pocketchange for the german state.
this here is about credibility and reliability of the EURO and the eurozone.

Do you think that €90 billion is a pocket change for Germany?

Definitely not. Even for the United States, €90 billion would have been a significant amount of money. Do you know that the total German tax revenues are around €330 billion per year? If they lose €90 billion, then it will represent a black hole of 6% of their tax revenues, for a period of five years. This will wipe-out the German budget surplus, and will start a recession in Germany.

macsga

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Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on July 04, 2015, 03:05:44 AM

Greek banks prepare plan to raid deposits to avert collapse - Financial Times

The plans, which call for a “haircut” of at least 30 per cent on deposits above €8,000, sketch out an increasingly likely scenario for at least one bank, the sources said.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/9963b74c-219c-11e5-aa5a-398b2169cf79.html

Greek official denies this and calls for propaganda from FT. I don't see this is an possible scenario though, but just in case it is, I even don't believe they will break the 100,000 Euro rule that the EU has signed. This is just another means of pressure for the upcoming referendum.

Link:
https://news.makedonias.gr/132330/%CE%B7-%CE%BB%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BA%CE%B1-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CF%84%CF%83%CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%B7-%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%B1%CF%88%CE%B5%CF%85%CE%B4%CE%B5%CE%B9-%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85%CF%83-ft-%CE%BF%CE%B9-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CF%84/

Topic: Grexit - page 5. (Read 8159 times)