Topic: [Guide] How to run a Bitcoin Core full node for under 50 bucks! - page 3. (Read 2165 times)

Quote from: AnotherAlt on April 21, 2022, 02:38:27 PM

Sadly I am still three years behind. I don't run my computer 24/7. But, Whenever I run, I let the core download the blocks. Meanwhile, I moved my Bitcoin into an Atomic wallet.

If you aren't running it 24/7, then you might want to consider running a pruned node instead. At least that'll be a reduction in local disk space needed. Otherwise, you'll likely be catching up for a while every day that you restart it. Especially, if you have a slow internet connection.

AnotherAlt, do note that pruning won't affect the IBD (initial block download) speed or sync speed in general. But since the node doesn't run 24/7 it doesn't provide that much utility to the network anyway, so might as well run it pruned, is what Welsh is probably saying here. Such a node needs considerably less disk space and gives you as a user all the benefits of a full node, and just lacks the ability to seed the blockchain to new nodes entering the network.

i have internet that is The Suck (satellite that is slow with caps out here in the boonies), so i specifically run it in NOT pruned mode. simply because disk space is cheap and one needs to download the complete blockchain anyway even if you throw much of it out due to pruning. so i keep it all and this allows me to run other software against it that may want a local copy of the full chain if needed (trezor wallet etc).

so i would argue that its better to just keep it all, unless youre really really pinched for space.

also because it would take me a few months to get the blockchain from scratch again if it gets hosed i have it backed up like crazy. like i keep 5 or 6 copies with regular backups, some in raid 1 and zfs z1/z2

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Quote from: ABCbits on May 01, 2022, 05:45:40 AM

Assuming you tried non-free firmware from Debian, looks like you've tried everything that i would try. I only could suggest you to try this guide (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/ThinkPad_mobile_Internet#Alternative_method) which also use Qualcomm Gobi.

I think that was attempt number 106.

The problem is, well one of them anyway, is that although it's an off the shelf laptop so to speak, from what I can figure many municipalities along with AT&T have a custom firmware loadout on the 4G cards. I saw a mention of it on a usenet group when I was looking for help with it.
They appear normal, but were setup slightly differently so in the event of a true emergency they worked a bit differently. It is probably some little thing, but enough for linux not to work with it.

OR

They were deliberately disabled under linux to prevent something for some reason.

-Dave

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Quote from: DaveF on April 30, 2022, 07:33:11 AM

Quote from: ABCbits on April 30, 2022, 06:21:22 AM

Quote from: DaveF on April 29, 2022, 07:47:16 PM

1) It's not a 100% standard card and Dell has something custom either in the hardware or firmware that causes it to get funky under linux.

It's known problem that some WiFi and mobile broadband card doesn't work on linux. But what linux distro did you use? Have you tried install optional/closed-source driver (few distro require user to do it manually)?

I tried Debian and Ubuntu 1st figuring that when Debian did not work Ubuntu, although close to it may do something a bit differently. Then I switched to CentOS and still no go. Tried every driver I could find related to the card both open and closed. It's not even that smooth under Windows, after install you have to *power down* not just reboot.

Assuming you tried non-free firmware from Debian, looks like you've tried everything that i would try. I only could suggest you to try this guide (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/ThinkPad_mobile_Internet#Alternative_method) which also use Qualcomm Gobi.

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Quote from: dkbit98 on April 30, 2022, 03:02:44 PM

Soooo I picked up a bunch of surplus rugged dell laptops at auction. 8 for about $140 total

That was a pretty good deal you found, but I would pick old Thinkpad T series laptops instead of Dell, because they are built like tank and used by army for a reason.
It's easy to replace DVD drive with a cheap drive bay caddy adapter for any HDD or SSD drives, so you could have much bigger drive space than you need.
This is a perfect machine for running Bitcoin node, it will survive most drops or water spills, and spare parts with batteries can easily be found worldwide.
Local flea market should be one of the places you can visit to find one of this Wink

There are a lot of surplus places out there selling old fire / police laptops you just have to do a bit of looking.
The Panasonic Toughbook really is the gold standard in rugged laptops but even really the really old ones still sell for a premium.

But any of them more or less are prefect for a portable node that you don't have to worry about damaging.

-Dave

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Quote from: ABCbits on April 30, 2022, 06:21:22 AM

Soooo I picked up a bunch of surplus rugged dell laptops at auction. 8 for about $140 total

That was a pretty good deal you found, but I would pick old Thinkpad T series laptops instead of Dell, because they are built like tank and used by army for a reason.
It's easy to replace DVD drive with a cheap drive bay caddy adapter for any HDD or SSD drives, so you could have much bigger drive space than you need.
This is a perfect machine for running Bitcoin node, it will survive most drops or water spills, and spare parts with batteries can easily be found worldwide.
Local flea market should be one of the places you can visit to find one of this Wink

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Quote from: n0nce on April 29, 2022, 07:14:24 PM

Quote from: ABCbits on April 30, 2022, 06:21:22 AM

Anyone ever tempted to run a node off a solar panel? I assume a single board computer would likely be the most realistic way of going about it.

Not..... yet! I plan to get something relatively large but still single panel that would easily power a node even on cloudy days.
The more ambitious part would be also developing a hashboard that is then dynamically powered on / off depending on sun availability. Mainly to show the counterintuitive concept of harvesting otherwise 'lost' energy (since the solar panel will produce much more than what a little pi needs on sunny days) and therefore run not only carbon-neutral, but you could argue carbon-negative mining. Wink

I would disagree it's carbon-negative. You need to consider carbon footprint during production[1] and whether it's recyclable after the panel reached end of life/broken[2].

Well, my point is that without the hashboard, the same solar cell that runs your node, actually produces more power than needed most of the time (to be able to get through the shortest days of the year). So adding a hashboard uses this otherwise wasted energy for good (securing the network and getting money into your pocket that hopefully circulates in the economy); there is no need to manufacture and recycle more solar cells, the only extra hardware is the hashboard.

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Quote from: n0nce on April 29, 2022, 07:14:24 PM

Quote from: DaveF on April 29, 2022, 07:47:16 PM

Anyone ever tempted to run a node off a solar panel? I assume a single board computer would likely be the most realistic way of going about it.

Not..... yet! I plan to get something relatively large but still single panel that would easily power a node even on cloudy days.
The more ambitious part would be also developing a hashboard that is then dynamically powered on / off depending on sun availability. Mainly to show the counterintuitive concept of harvesting otherwise 'lost' energy (since the solar panel will produce much more than what a little pi needs on sunny days) and therefore run not only carbon-neutral, but you could argue carbon-negative mining. Wink

I would disagree it's carbon-negative. You need to consider carbon footprint during production[1] and whether it's recyclable after the panel reached end of life/broken[2].

1) It's not a 100% standard card and Dell has something custom either in the hardware or firmware that causes it to get funky under linux.

It's known problem that some WiFi and mobile broadband card doesn't work on linux. But what linux distro did you use? Have you tried install optional/closed-source driver (few distro require user to do it manually)?

[1] https://www.1energysystems.com/carbon-footprint-of-solar-panel-manufacturing/
[2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-020-0645-2.epdf

I tried Debian and Ubuntu 1st figuring that when Debian did not work Ubuntu, although close to it may do something a bit differently. Then I switched to CentOS and still no go. Tried every driver I could find related to the card both open and closed. It's not even that smooth under Windows, after install you have to *power down* not just reboot.

As for the solar panel side, since the nodes in a box use so little power you can probably get an older / damaged solar panel for free that will put out enough power to run the node and charge a few batts to keep it going when it's dark out. Depending on where you live. Here in the US it's going to be easier to do in say Las Vegas where you have a lot more sun then New York.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.58008085

-Dave

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Quote from: n0nce on April 29, 2022, 07:14:24 PM

Quote from: DaveF on April 29, 2022, 07:47:16 PM

Anyone ever tempted to run a node off a solar panel? I assume a single board computer would likely be the most realistic way of going about it.

Not..... yet! I plan to get something relatively large but still single panel that would easily power a node even on cloudy days.
The more ambitious part would be also developing a hashboard that is then dynamically powered on / off depending on sun availability. Mainly to show the counterintuitive concept of harvesting otherwise 'lost' energy (since the solar panel will produce much more than what a little pi needs on sunny days) and therefore run not only carbon-neutral, but you could argue carbon-negative mining. Wink

I would disagree it's carbon-negative. You need to consider carbon footprint during production[1] and whether it's recyclable after the panel reached end of life/broken[2].

1) It's not a 100% standard card and Dell has something custom either in the hardware or firmware that causes it to get funky under linux.

It's known problem that some WiFi and mobile broadband card doesn't work on linux. But what linux distro did you use? Have you tried install optional/closed-source driver (few distro require user to do it manually)?

[1] https://www.1energysystems.com/carbon-footprint-of-solar-panel-manufacturing/
[2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-020-0645-2.epdf

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Quote

Dell has something custom either in the hardware or firmware that causes it to get funky under linux

I don't know if it is related, but we recently had some problems with Dell. We had a person that switched motherboard five times or more, so definitely something is fishy. Not to mention that most libreboot laptops or similar Free Software guys run their things on ThinkPads, and that Lenovo sometimes create a BIOS image in debug mode, so you can read a lot of things by capturing that with flashrom, also for that reason it is easier to hack that by installing Open Source BIOS on such devices.

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Went with mynode in a VM for now because I could not get everything to work under linux and I wanted a lightning setup. No real reason, just wanted it.

What specifically didn't work in Linux, but works in the virtual machine?

I could not get the 4G working under linux. It's a Gobi / Sierra Wireless / Qualcomm unit but no matter what I did it would not connect.
Installed Win 10 and it works. VirtualBox sees it as a regular Wi-Fi card.

I don't know if

1) It's not a 100% standard card and Dell has something custom either in the hardware or firmware that causes it to get funky under linux.
Or
2) Since it's PD surplus if they did some tweaks to the firmware
Or
3) AT&T is looking for some setting that is not in the generic linux driver that is in the Windows one.
Or
4) Something else that I am not seeing.

-Dave

n0nce

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Anyone ever tempted to run a node off a solar panel? I assume a single board computer would likely be the most realistic way of going about it.

Not..... yet! I plan to get something relatively large but still single panel that would easily power a node even on cloudy days.
The more ambitious part would be also developing a hashboard that is then dynamically powered on / off depending on sun availability. Mainly to show the counterintuitive concept of harvesting otherwise 'lost' energy (since the solar panel will produce much more than what a little pi needs on sunny days) and therefore run not only carbon-neutral, but you could argue carbon-negative mining. Wink

Quote from: n0nce on April 22, 2022, 07:30:05 AM

Yes, very good point! We talked in the past about people with bandwidth limits and total data limits and such. While tedious, with such an option in Core, they could set it to a speed that only downloads 5GB a day or so, to complete IBD in a bit over 2 months if that's the maximum their data plan or bandwidth allows them.

I know the vast majority of people wouldn't find it useful, and that's probably the reason it hasn't already been implemented, however as time goes on if we're going to expect more adoption, it could very well aid that. I know there are already alternatives such as a lightweight client or just not running a node, and don't get me wrong again the vast majority aren't going to be interested. I don't know, I just feel it could be worth it regardless, as it might just encourage someone who was already on the fence, to give running a full node a try, which obviously directly benefits the network as a whole.

Actually, I believe the need for Bitcoin is even higher in less 'developed' parts of the world, however those are almost always also underdeveloped in (internet) infrastructure. So such a feature would actually benefit exactly the people 'that need it most'.

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Anyone ever tempted to run a node off a solar panel? I assume a single board computer would likely be the most realistic way of going about it.

Quote from: n0nce on April 22, 2022, 07:30:05 AM

Yes, very good point! We talked in the past about people with bandwidth limits and total data limits and such. While tedious, with such an option in Core, they could set it to a speed that only downloads 5GB a day or so, to complete IBD in a bit over 2 months if that's the maximum their data plan or bandwidth allows them.

I know the vast majority of people wouldn't find it useful, and that's probably the reason it hasn't already been implemented, however as time goes on if we're going to expect more adoption, it could very well aid that. I know there are already alternatives such as a lightweight client or just not running a node, and don't get me wrong again the vast majority aren't going to be interested. I don't know, I just feel it could be worth it regardless, as it might just encourage someone who was already on the fence, to give running a full node a try, which obviously directly benefits the network as a whole.

Went with mynode in a VM for now because I could not get everything to work under linux and I wanted a lightning setup. No real reason, just wanted it.

What specifically didn't work in Linux, but works in the virtual machine?

n0nce

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This post brought to you by the department of just because you can does not mean you should.
Getting some things to work, like the 4g were a pain in the ass. But it was fun.

That's so cool, thanks a lot for trying what I now call 'the $50 experiment'!

You bring up a good point: portability. Even if the battery in such a node is almost dead, it will protect it from short power outages and allows you to move it without turning it off and on again.

Quote from: AnotherAlt on April 26, 2022, 11:18:39 AM

Went with mynode in a VM for now because I could not get everything to work under linux and I wanted a lightning setup. No real reason, just wanted it.

I must insert an ad for my own topic here, but openSUSE seems to be very light on the hardware, especially if installed / run without graphical user interface.
If interested in running bare-metal, with electrs and Core Lightning (They rebranded! Anyone noticed yet? https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning), you could try following along with this guide: [Guide] FULL NODE OpenSUSE 15.3: bitcoind + electrs + c-lightning + RTL. But you already gave me 8 merit, so you are aware of it. Wink

Unfortunately, I have a shitty internet connection. I live in a village side, and I also don't have 24/7 Electricity here. I am not aware of the pruned node. Should I watch some Youtube videos about it? Or it's works same as like the Main core?

As BlackHatCoiner said, pruning won't help with the download speed. But there's no rush, right, so just let it sit. Regarding electricity, this would be a great application for using laptop hardware with a battery installed, as I mentioned above. You could even tell Linux to shut down cleanly if it detects to be running on battery for more than 15 minutes, for instance.

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Quote from: AnotherAlt on April 26, 2022, 11:18:39 AM

Should I watch some Youtube videos about it? Or it's works same as like the Main core?

It's the same as running a non-pruning node, you just don't store the entire chain. You'd need it, if you didn't have enough disk space or didn't want to use it for storing the chain. It won't help if the problem has to do with your internet speed.

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Quote from: AnotherAlt on April 21, 2022, 02:38:27 PM

Sadly I am still three years behind. I don't run my computer 24/7. But, Whenever I run, I let the core download the blocks. Meanwhile, I moved my Bitcoin into an Atomic wallet.

If you aren't running it 24/7, then you might want to consider running a pruned node instead. At least that'll be a reduction in local disk space needed. Otherwise, you'll likely be catching up for a while every day that you restart it. Especially, if you have a slow internet connection.

AnotherAlt, do note that pruning won't affect the IBD (initial block download) speed or sync speed in general. But since the node doesn't run 24/7 it doesn't provide that much utility to the network anyway, so might as well run it pruned, is what Welsh is probably saying here. Such a node needs considerably less disk space and gives you as a user all the benefits of a full node, and just lacks the ability to seed the blockchain to new nodes entering the network.

Unfortunately, I have a shitty internet connection. I live in a village side, and I also don't have 24/7 Electricity here. I am not aware of the pruned node. Should I watch some Youtube videos about it? Or it's works same as like the Main core?

BTW, Thanks guys for taking your time to write me back.

DaveF

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For all of you who were wondering where I was the last few days.
I can now present to you the MORE then $50 node because I made it that way but you could probably do it for less if you look.

Soooo I picked up a bunch of surplus rugged dell laptops at auction. 8 for about $140 total
Dell Latitude 14 Rugged 5404 Intel i7-4650U 1.70GHz 4GB
Some worked fine others had issues.

Main thing was that all of them had the drives and the the drive bay removed. Damn, the bays are expensive ($40) I could have waited and gotten one for a lot less but I have the patience of a sugared up 5 year old so I paid it.
Took 4 gigs of RAM out of one and put it in another to bump it to 8GB (30+ screws that are not all the same to get to the RAM)
And an old 1TB laptop drive and now you have:

A fully portable and really heavy mobile node they even have AT&T 4G with stupid expensive and slow data. But yes it works.

This post brought to you by the department of just because you can does not mean you should.
Getting some things to work, like the 4g were a pain in the ass. But it was fun.

Went with mynode in a VM for now because I could not get everything to work under linux and I wanted a lightning setup. No real reason, just wanted it.

-Dave

n0nce

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Quote from: Welsh on April 22, 2022, 07:17:51 AM

Edit: seems you have to throttle bandwidth with an external software, and there's nothing built into Bitcoin Core. Here's an answer with Windows, macOS and Linux instructions: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/7750/how-can-i-limit-bandwidth-usage-in-bitcoin-qt-client/38694#38694

On that note, it might be worth actually implementing it. Since, one could argue that by not having something like this in place it could encourage centralisation as you're potentially putting those with less bandwidth capability out of the picture. I know it's probably not a huge problem, but something to consider at least.

Yes, very good point! We talked in the past about people with bandwidth limits and total data limits and such. While tedious, with such an option in Core, they could set it to a speed that only downloads 5GB a day or so, to complete IBD in a bit over 2 months if that's the maximum their data plan or bandwidth allows them.

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Quote from: n0nce on April 11, 2022, 12:04:44 PM

AnotherAlt, do note that pruning won't affect the IBD (initial block download) speed or sync speed in general. But since the node doesn't run 24/7 it doesn't provide that much utility to the network anyway, so might as well run it pruned, is what Welsh is probably saying here. Such a node needs considerably less disk space and gives you as a user all the benefits of a full node, and just lacks the ability to seed the blockchain to new nodes entering the network.

Exactly. Cheers for clearing that up. Should have probably been a little more specific there.

That's true! I'm not sure if you're able to set something like a bandwidth cap. I never needed it since my nodes run on dedicated hardware and IBD doesn't really affect my total network bandwidth.

I've never had a look since it's not something I'd find useful, but it would make sense to be able to limit the download speed. I would assume that it is an option already implemented, but if it isn't probably should be.

Edit: seems you have to throttle bandwidth with an external software, and there's nothing built into Bitcoin Core. Here's an answer with Windows, macOS and Linux instructions: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/7750/how-can-i-limit-bandwidth-usage-in-bitcoin-qt-client/38694#38694

On that note, it might be worth actually implementing it. Since, one could argue that by not having something like this in place it could encourage centralisation as you're potentially putting those with less bandwidth capability out of the picture. I know it's probably not a huge problem, but something to consider at least.

n0nce

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Quote from: AnotherAlt on April 21, 2022, 02:38:27 PM

Sadly I am still three years behind. I don't run my computer 24/7. But, Whenever I run, I let the core download the blocks. Meanwhile, I moved my Bitcoin into an Atomic wallet.

If you aren't running it 24/7, then you might want to consider running a pruned node instead. At least that'll be a reduction in local disk space needed. Otherwise, you'll likely be catching up for a while every day that you restart it. Especially, if you have a slow internet connection.

AnotherAlt, do note that pruning won't affect the IBD (initial block download) speed or sync speed in general. But since the node doesn't run 24/7 it doesn't provide that much utility to the network anyway, so might as well run it pruned, is what Welsh is probably saying here. Such a node needs considerably less disk space and gives you as a user all the benefits of a full node, and just lacks the ability to seed the blockchain to new nodes entering the network.