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Topic: GUIDE - Make your own open frame rig. - page 3. (Read 138049 times)

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
February 07, 2012, 01:22:23 PM
#62
do they diminish the power to the card?  i see that some come with molex connectors.

Not the card, but they protect the mother board from "blowing a fuse" because of too much power draw.  For instance if you have 4+ 7970s on one mobo you are drawing a great deal of power directly from the mother board.  The molex connector can give you power directly from the power supply; then only a little power actually comes from the mobo, only the data.
The very thin wires in the extenders do cause a bit more current to flow because of their added resistance. Rule of thumb is any and all dual-gpu cards with extenders should have molexes as well, and single gpu cards should be OK without them. However, the 7970 is a beast that needs more power, so it might be a good idea to have molexes, especially if you plan on overclocking.

is a 6970 a "dual gpu" card?  how do i tell?
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
February 07, 2012, 01:13:50 PM
#61
The very thin wires in the extenders do cause a bit more current to flow because of their added resistance. Rule of thumb is any and all dual-gpu cards with extenders should have molexes as well, and single gpu cards should be OK without them. However, the 7970 is a beast that needs more power, so it might be a good idea to have molexes, especially if you plan on overclocking.

Actually the exact opposite is true.  The PCIe spec limits current on the slot to 75W but most high end cards (those with 8pin PCIe power connectors) draw much less.  I measured wattage at ~30W for a 5970 across the extender.  A 5870 draws ~30W too.

A 26 gauge wire can safely handle 2.2 amps of current.
A 30 gauge wire can safely handle 0.8 amps of current.

75W / 4 wires / 12V = 1.56A per wire.
30W / 4 wires / 12V = 0.625A per wire.

@ 30 gauge, 1 foot, 0.625A the voltage drop is 0.132V which is within ATX spec.

Personally I would stick w/ 26 gauge wiring and max length of 0.5 feet but even longer thinner wires should be fine.


So why is a single card worse?
          5970          5870
4 GPU  60W total   120W total
6 GPU  90W total   180W total
8 GPU 120W total   240W total

The issue isn't the extender but the aggregate draw on the MB.  To be compliant a PCIe 1x device must draw <25W and a PCIe 16x device which identifies it self as high current drawless than 75W.  All devices must draw less than 10W until interrogated by PCIe controller (at boot).

It really comes down to how aggressive MB designer was in power distribution.  Take a board with 4 PCIe x16 slots & 1 PCIe x1 slot.  By the spec the MB should be able to have 325W worth of compliant devices however to save money the design may assume that only 200W or 150W or only 100W will be drawn from the PCIe bus.  The higher the load the higher the risk you bump into the corners cut by MB supplier.

Granted the shouldn't cut corners but the number of users who pull 300W+ across the PCIe bus are in a rounding error and beefy power distribution is expensive for a low margin product.

It gets worse when using a board with lots of PCIe 1x slots.  The more PCIe 1x slots less power the designer may anticipate as a realistic scenario as PCIe 1x slots can only draw <25W and many (SATA controllers, USB3.0, sound cards, etc) draw <10W.  (This is why the presence detect pin needs to be shorted on some boards for stability).

Sadly a lot of boards are non-compliant and available power across PCIe bus isn't a stat provided.  This makes it hard to predict how much of a load the board can handle safely and efficiently. 

As a rule of thumb I would be more concerned about overloading the board when:
1) Using more than 4 SLOTS (# of GPUs doesn't matter).
2) The board has less PCIe 16x slots and more PCIe 1x slots.
3) The board only has a 4 pin 12V connector not the higher current 8 pin 12V connector indicating a possible design choice in power handling.
4) The board is more of a budget model (not crossfire certified, etc).
hero member
Activity: 497
Merit: 500
February 07, 2012, 12:39:59 PM
#60
Let me know if you start selling a kit. I am interested!! Have BTC burning a hole in my digital back pocket!
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
February 06, 2012, 12:24:52 AM
#59
do they diminish the power to the card?  i see that some come with molex connectors.

Not the card, but they protect the mother board from "blowing a fuse" because of too much power draw.  For instance if you have 4+ 7970s on one mobo you are drawing a great deal of power directly from the mother board.  The molex connector can give you power directly from the power supply; then only a little power actually comes from the mobo, only the data.
The very thin wires in the extenders do cause a bit more current to flow because of their added resistance. Rule of thumb is any and all dual-gpu cards with extenders should have molexes as well, and single gpu cards should be OK without them. However, the 7970 is a beast that needs more power, so it might be a good idea to have molexes, especially if you plan on overclocking.
full member
Activity: 149
Merit: 100
February 06, 2012, 12:21:33 AM
#58
do they diminish the power to the card?  i see that some come with molex connectors.

Not the card, but they protect the mother board from "blowing a fuse" because of too much power draw.  For instance if you have 4+ 7970s on one mobo you are drawing a great deal of power directly from the mother board.  The molex connector can give you power directly from the power supply; then only a little power actually comes from the mobo, only the data.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
February 04, 2012, 11:55:08 PM
#57
Hi,

how are those cables called that "extend" the PCIe bus (the cables that connect the PCIe slots with the graphics cards).

I didn't know there's such a thing!

cheers,
F.

I googled "pci-e extender" and got this:
http://www.amazon.com/PCI-Express-Riser-Flexible-Cable/dp/B004XD74MC

and also this:
http://www.amazon.com/HOTER-Extension-Cable-Riser-Adapter/dp/B0057M1ZLE

everyone seems to swear by Cablesaurus (http://cablesaurus.com/), so I bought a few from them and they work fine.  If you search through the forums there are some cases of cheap PCIe extenders frying/burning up.  Their prices seem fair enough and their shipping is quick. 

do they diminish the power to the card?  i see that some come with molex connectors.
member
Activity: 65
Merit: 10
February 04, 2012, 03:25:39 PM
#56
Hi,

how are those cables called that "extend" the PCIe bus (the cables that connect the PCIe slots with the graphics cards).

I didn't know there's such a thing!

cheers,
F.

I googled "pci-e extender" and got this:
http://www.amazon.com/PCI-Express-Riser-Flexible-Cable/dp/B004XD74MC

and also this:
http://www.amazon.com/HOTER-Extension-Cable-Riser-Adapter/dp/B0057M1ZLE

everyone seems to swear by Cablesaurus (http://cablesaurus.com/), so I bought a few from them and they work fine.  If you search through the forums there are some cases of cheap PCIe extenders frying/burning up.  Their prices seem fair enough and their shipping is quick. 
brand new
Activity: 0
Merit: 250
October 20, 2011, 06:31:58 AM
#55
Any other suggestions of motherboards that can run 4+ gpus?
Gigabyte GA-H61M-D2-B3. Needs an Intel CPU so more expensive than some AMD solutions. But in the UK, the logic board is £60 new, and the cheapest CPU (2.6 GHz dual-core Sandybridge thingie) is around £63.

I've got three of these in the shelf rig, each running four GPUs (5x 5830, 3x 5850, 4x 6950, all overclocked).

If the value of the BTC starts to making mining profitable again then my next rig will be another one of these boards.

Also, you may want to look over here (points to this forum, BTW)
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Shame on everything; regret nothing.
February 02, 2012, 08:28:18 PM
#55
Hi,

how are those cables called that "extend" the PCIe bus (the cables that connect the PCIe slots with the graphics cards).

I didn't know there's such a thing!

cheers,
F.

I googled "pci-e extender" and got this:
http://www.amazon.com/PCI-Express-Riser-Flexible-Cable/dp/B004XD74MC

and also this:
http://www.amazon.com/HOTER-Extension-Cable-Riser-Adapter/dp/B0057M1ZLE
hero member
Activity: 1162
Merit: 500
January 21, 2012, 01:14:07 PM
#54
Hi,

how are those cables called that "extend" the PCIe bus (the cables that connect the PCIe slots with the graphics cards).

I didn't know there's such a thing!

cheers,
F.
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
January 17, 2012, 01:47:58 PM
#53
Protip: Do not try using a pneumatic hammer for assembling these. I tried it, and my wrist is going to ache for a week now. Going back to my trusty old shot-filled hammer. This is what I was using:

It kind of worked, but was slow and ineffective. Also it sprayed oil everywhere  Angry

You made me lulz.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
January 17, 2012, 01:42:29 PM
#52
Protip: Do not try using a pneumatic hammer for assembling these. I tried it, and my wrist is going to ache for a week now. Going back to my trusty old shot-filled hammer. This is what I was using:

It kind of worked, but was slow and ineffective. Also it sprayed oil everywhere  Angry
full member
Activity: 149
Merit: 100
October 19, 2011, 09:53:10 PM
#51

Suppliers and Source material
The aluminum tubing and connectors were purchased from http://www.brunnerent.com/ - There may be cheaper suppliers but for a no hassle, nice shopping cart order system, this is the pace to go.
The power supply is a Corsair AX1200
The motherboard is a 890AFX-GD70
The riser cables are cablesaurus brand. http://www.cablesaurus.com/


Any other suggestions of motherboards that can run 4+ gpus?
donator
Activity: 1731
Merit: 1008
October 18, 2011, 08:18:50 PM
#50
Can u post with all cards, mother board, cpu attached & mining with pictures?
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Firstbits: 12pqwk
October 17, 2011, 02:28:38 PM
#49
This looks like a perfect weekend project for me.
As the price dips I finally have excuses to take some of my rigs offline.
legendary
Activity: 1855
Merit: 1016
October 15, 2011, 03:46:45 PM
#48
Can u post with all cards, mother board, cpu attached & mining with pictures?
donator
Activity: 1731
Merit: 1008
October 14, 2011, 11:44:12 PM
#47
No guide needed for this !


2 board, 8-10 GPU

Cost, : 5$, or trash wood.
Time : 20min
Part availability : real common

Ps : Please remove sticky
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
September 28, 2011, 03:08:24 PM
#46
nice guide but i'll stick to a case. Main reason is it's portable and for 99 dollars I can get a decent case for another 50 bucks. Those 8 dollar pci-e extension cable ain't cheap either. I'll problably think about it when I magically hit the lottery. Good guide tho! 1+
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
Buy this account on March-2019. New Owner here!!
September 27, 2011, 09:15:54 AM
#45
thats slick man, excellent work.
full member
Activity: 392
Merit: 100
August 27, 2011, 10:10:54 PM
#44
Very good! I will try to make a equal to its.  Wink
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