Guns - page 19. | Bitcointalksearch.org

FirstAscent

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Quote from: myrkul on July 23, 2012, 02:57:56 AM

The graph speaks for itself.

Gun law strictness------------------------------------------->

This is not "my" data, it is straight from the FBI.

Why do you exclude accidents? There is no sound reason to do so.

Furthermore, your choice of graphing methods leaves a lot to be desired. Or do you just find it challenging to put together a graph that is more usable?

As for correlation in the direction you obviously desire, only the green stands out. That stands for gun crime. Obviously, when the rules are more strict, gun crime will rise simply because stricter rules mean something is a crime when otherwise it would not be in a less strict environment. So the green data is sketchy as well.

FirstAscent

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Quote from: stochastic on July 23, 2012, 02:28:24 AM

Wow, only economics and other soft sciences would be happy to call anything above 0.5 a strong correlation.

0.7 is strong, especially given how obvious the data is.

Quote

1. People in areas with less gun deaths are less likely to have guns.
2. Other factor may lead to more gun deaths
3. It could just be a coincident.

No shit. Try not to conflate that concept with the correlation of data. If you wish to argue the three points above, then do so. It's not an argument as to whether the data correlates or not.

myrkul

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The graph speaks for itself.

Gun law strictness------------------------------------------->

This is not "my" data, it is straight from the FBI.

FlipPro

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Quote from: nimda on July 23, 2012, 12:14:06 AM

How is that in any way relevant to the post you quoted?

An adhominem is negating the truth by pointing out a negative in the person supporting this "truth".

This cannot be an Ad hominem because I am not negating "truth", I am negating the lies that you guys try to push on a consistent daily basis.

The government sure lies, but no-where near as much as the "experts" in this forum.

I will not stand for fake homemade statisticians playing "experts", represent the majority of us in this new-age currency.

I will not let their wild conspiracies and their disservice to truth and justice, hurt the chances of Bitcoin ever becoming adopted by a sizable number of people.

stochastic

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Quote from: FirstAscent on July 22, 2012, 01:41:17 PM

Quote from: myrkul on July 22, 2012, 01:33:04 PM

Oops. I'll take credit for that fuck-up. I should have been clearer that the following portion is what I wanted you to address, not the first part. The first part is done. .698 correlation, when you include all gun deaths, whether accidental, suicide, or as a result of violence (both in defense and as a result of attack, no less!), is simply not strong enough to show that restricting guns will reduce gun violence. Too much noise in the data, coming from all of those other deaths.

Address this, please:

Quote from: myrkul on July 22, 2012, 02:24:47 AM

Tell you what: you find me data about gun crime, and I'll make another graph. If that one shows even this level of correlation, I'll eat my hat, switch positions, and start crying gun control from the rooftops. But I bet you can't.

Oh! and while I was looking up info on that data, I found this lovely little nugget:

Quote

"I am generally skeptical of gun laws," says Eugene Volokh, a law professor at UCLA. "The theory is that gun laws may prevent crimes of passion—domestic crimes, altercations over traffic incidents, or committed by someone who is otherwise law-abiding but has an anger problem… gun-control laws can potentially do something, but the kind of crime by which they can do the least is a mass shooting."

That's from the very same article those data come from.

(as per the wikipedia article, which states that anything above 0.5 is strong),

Wow, only economics and other soft sciences would be happy to call anything above 0.5 a strong correlation. I would have a lot of publications if this was the case for real science.

Even if there was a 'strong correlation' based on some scale, it would still require some other kind of hypothesis testing. Even if a significant correlation could be detected that does not mean guns cause crime/deaths/whatever. It could also mean:

1. People in areas with less gun deaths are less likely to have guns.
2. Other factor may lead to more gun deaths
3. It could just be a coincident.

As a personal note. I feel safer with my gun(s). I know if guns were illegal I would not be able to carry mine around and if someone came at me with a knife, either during mass killing or a robber, then I would probably die.

I would much rather see some simulations on the ability of 1000 average people to defend themselves from a knife attack with their own knife or a gun. Then do the same simulations with a gun versus knife, and knife versus gun. Then permutate some t-tests and tell me what is more likely to keep me alive in that situation.

nimda

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Quote from: TheButterZone on July 23, 2012, 12:06:35 AM

"Statistics" cannot invalidate inherent human rights in the U.S. federal court system, especially the right to self-defense.

/end thread

Err... we can make amendments to the Constitution. Due Process is already gone, and nobody even bothered to make an amendment about it.

myrkul

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Quote from: TheButterZone on July 23, 2012, 12:06:35 AM

"Statistics" cannot invalidate inherent human rights in the U.S. federal court system, especially the right to self-defense.

/end thread

No, but I've been playing around with the data from that FBI list, and it seems to show that if restrictive gun laws do anything, they make it harder for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves from gun violence. It's nice when the data backs up an inherent right.

nimda

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How is that in any way relevant to the post you quoted?

FlipPro

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Quote from: nimda on July 23, 2012, 12:07:34 AM

Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 11:46:50 PM

Quote from: myrkul on July 22, 2012, 11:36:53 PM

Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 11:14:16 PM

Lol the sites main focus is on crypto anarchism. And how to stop over-opinionated "twats". Linking me to some nutjob site that teaches people like you to dispel facts doesnt make you right...

Obvious troll is obvious. Welcome to my ignore list.

Shows why you're so god awful uninformed. You filter opinions that don't reflect yours , then have the nerve to say that we are the sheep?

I hope you didn't filter my post... but I'll save the Tu Quoque.

Quote

Shall I continue to point out the incoherent fallacies that roam through your head mykrul?

Quote from: Me

You know, the main character on The Big Bang Theory did the same thing: call out a logical fallacy and then fall into his own. (What's his name, "Sheldon" or something? Anyways, he called out post hoc ergo propter hoc then fell prey to the Gambler's Fallacy: "What are the odds that I'd be wrong twice in one week?")
Specifically, Appeal to Authority, Ad Hominem, and Appeal to Ridicule. Would you like a side of Latin?

Let's add Ad Hominem Tu Quoque to that list, shall we?

I am not negating any truth.

The truth is already out there.

I just have a problem with you guys changing it Cheesy

nimda

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Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 11:46:50 PM

Quote from: myrkul on July 22, 2012, 11:36:53 PM

Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 11:14:16 PM

Lol the sites main focus is on crypto anarchism. And how to stop over-opinionated "twats". Linking me to some nutjob site that teaches people like you to dispel facts doesnt make you right...

Obvious troll is obvious. Welcome to my ignore list.

Shows why you're so god awful uninformed. You filter opinions that don't reflect yours , then have the nerve to say that we are the sheep?

I hope you didn't filter my post... but I'll save the Tu Quoque.

Quote

Shall I continue to point out the incoherent fallacies that roam through your head mykrul?

Quote from: Me

You know, the main character on The Big Bang Theory did the same thing: call out a logical fallacy and then fall into his own. (What's his name, "Sheldon" or something? Anyways, he called out post hoc ergo propter hoc then fell prey to the Gambler's Fallacy: "What are the odds that I'd be wrong twice in one week?")
Specifically, Appeal to Authority, Ad Hominem, and Appeal to Ridicule. Would you like a side of Latin?

Let's add Ad Hominem Tu Quoque to that list, shall we?

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

"Statistics" cannot invalidate inherent human rights in the U.S. federal court system, especially the right to self-defense.

/end thread

FlipPro

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Quote from: myrkul on July 22, 2012, 11:36:53 PM

Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 11:14:16 PM

Lol the sites main focus is on crypto anarchism. And how to stop over-opinionated "twats". Linking me to some nutjob site that teaches people like you to dispel facts doesnt make you right...

Obvious troll is obvious. Welcome to my ignore list.

Shows why you're so god awful uninformed. You filter opinions that don't reflect yours , then have the nerve to say that we are the sheep?

Shall I continue to point out the incoherent fallacies that roam through your head mykrul?

myrkul

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Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 11:14:16 PM

Lol the sites main focus is on crypto anarchism. And how to stop over-opinionated "twats". Linking me to some nutjob site that teaches people like you to dispel facts doesnt make you right...

Obvious troll is obvious. Welcome to my ignore list.

myrkul

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Merit: 500

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Quote from: nimda on July 22, 2012, 11:10:49 PM

Not to take sides, but can you do 3-d graphs? As in, XYZ coords? Perhaps you should change your ranking of 1-51 to some kind of score, then plot X as ranking, Y as crime rate, and Z as the state.
A 2-dimensional view of this would be a generic "permissions" score of say 1-5, then take the average crime rate out of each group and plot that.

What should I put in Florida, or should I just chop it out and do 1-50 instead?

Wouldn't that 3d graph result in basically the same graph, just smeared out over the Z axis? I mean, we're looking at two things, here, the "Permissiveness" as defined by that first article that FirstAscent posted, and the number of gun crimes in that state. Permissiveness is a ranking, from 1 to 51, with 1 being the most permissive, and 51 (DC) being the most restrictive. Given that as the X, ranking each state's relative crime level is as simple as plotting the gun crimes on the Y axis.

If it were me, I'd just drop Florida from the murder numbers. Doubt it would make much difference either way.

nimda

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Wow... 86 pages of utter shit Shocked

I am in awe. I am awestruck. I am struck with such utter awe, amazement, disgust, and general shock that this post will be awfully redundant. Like that quote from 21 Jump Street... HFS. Holey flapping scythe. I am almost dumbfounded as when I saw the Grand Canyon for the first time.

Shocked

FlipPro

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Quote from: myrkul on July 22, 2012, 11:05:30 PM

Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 11:03:08 PM

Quote from: myrkul on July 22, 2012, 10:45:43 PM

Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 10:38:34 PM

Quote from: myrkul on July 22, 2012, 10:35:40 PM

Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 10:34:18 PM

Bitcoin geniuses who know more than law enforcement officials, compiling their own data in an attempt to disprove the obvious. Cheesy

... the amount of ego see in this forum is astonishing.

I don't recall yanking your chain....

This is a public debate. You are stupifying the public. Therefore I feel a need to respond...

In other words, "duty calls"? Or perhaps this has more to do with it?

So I am a government spy looking to overthrow this forum with my radical statist ideas right : D? A lot of people here on the forum know me personally (some staff members) , they know that I am a private business man and not a government worker... Is this what you people think of anyone who holds an opinion even midly in favor of government oversight ( which after all is supposed to be run by the people ).

It's sad that you need that crappy website to confirm all of your logical fallacies.

No, I didn't state that you were necessarily a government forum spyx. Did you click the first link? I left open the possibility that you were simply an over-opinionated twat.

Lol the sites main focus is on crypto anarchism. And how to stop over-opinionated "twats". Linking me to some nutjob site that teaches people like you to dispel facts doesnt make you right...

Infact it only makes you look weak & proves you cannot debate what happens in RL , and can only keep your opinions limited to what you "think" you know on the internet...

nimda

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Not to take sides, but can you do 3-d graphs? As in, XYZ coords? Perhaps you should change your ranking of 1-51 to some kind of score, then plot X as ranking, Y as crime rate, and Z as the state.
A 2-dimensional view of this would be a generic "permissions" score of say 1-5, then take the average crime rate out of each group and plot that.

What should I put in Florida, or should I just chop it out and do 1-50 instead?

Quote

It's sad that you need that crappy website to confirm all of your logical fallacies.

You know, the main character on The Big Bang Theory did the same thing: call out a logical fallacy and then fall into his own. (What's his name, "Sheldon" or something? Anyways, he called out post hoc ergo propter hoc then fell prey to the Gambler's Fallacy: "What are the odds that I'd be wrong twice in one week?")
Specifically, Appeal to Authority, Ad Hominem, and Appeal to Ridicule. Would you like a side of Latin?
_{I hope nobody minds that Oxford comma there}

myrkul

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Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 11:03:08 PM

Quote from: myrkul on July 22, 2012, 10:45:43 PM

Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 10:38:34 PM

Quote from: myrkul on July 22, 2012, 10:35:40 PM

Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 10:34:18 PM

Bitcoin geniuses who know more than law enforcement officials, compiling their own data in an attempt to disprove the obvious. Cheesy

... the amount of ego see in this forum is astonishing.

I don't recall yanking your chain....

This is a public debate. You are stupifying the public. Therefore I feel a need to respond...

In other words, "duty calls"? Or perhaps this has more to do with it?

So I am a government spy looking to overthrow this forum with my radical statist ideas right : D? A lot of people here on the forum know me personally (some staff members) , they know that I am a private business man and not a government worker... Is this what you people think of anyone who holds an opinion even midly in favor of government oversight ( which after all is supposed to be run by the people ).

It's sad that you need that crappy website to confirm all of your logical fallacies.

No, I didn't state that you were necessarily a government forum spy. Did you click the first link? I left open the possibility that you were simply an over-opinionated twat.

FlipPro

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Merit: 1015

Quote from: myrkul on July 22, 2012, 10:45:43 PM

Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 10:38:34 PM

Quote from: myrkul on July 22, 2012, 10:35:40 PM

Quote from: FlipPro on July 22, 2012, 10:34:18 PM

Bitcoin geniuses who know more than law enforcement officials, compiling their own data in an attempt to disprove the obvious. Cheesy

... the amount of ego see in this forum is astonishing.

I don't recall yanking your chain....

This is a public debate. You are stupifying the public. Therefore I feel a need to respond...

In other words, "duty calls"? Or perhaps this has more to do with it?

So I am a government spy looking to overthrow this forum with my radical statist ideas right : D ? A lot of people here on the forum know me personally (some staff members) , they know that I am a private business man and not a government worker... Is this what you people think of anyone who holds an opinion even midly in favor of government oversight ( which after all is supposed to be run by the people )?

It's sad that you need that crappy website to confirm all of your logical fallacies.

myrkul

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Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: nimda on July 22, 2012, 10:52:10 PM

I'm missing Florida:

Quote

Pennsylvania;40;3.62;52.04;39.45;95.11;
Florida;41; ;59.45;71.18;130.63;
Rhode Island;42;1.51;18.73;28.57;48.81;

Yeah, the Florida data for firearms murders was missing from the original information on the site Explodicle posted. I mention that above, but because the murder numbers overall are so low, in comparison to the rest, I doubt it produced much aberration in the overall data.

Topic: Guns - page 19. (Read 22182 times)