Topic: Haasonline Simple Trade Bot For BTCe and Bitstamp[Main topic] - page 118. (Read 416703 times)

@seanrarey:
I can explain what is happening...

First lets look at the RSI itself. Like i wrote down at the help the RSI indicator is interval based. This means the RSI indicator is using interval based prices as a reference instead of the day based prices. This is the main cause why the RSI indicator responses so fast and why there are 2 indicators inside the st bot.

The RSI stand for Relative Strength Index and it means it gives you a indication to where the currency is going. If the currency is going up then the indicator should go up too. When the currency is dropping the indicator will do down. The interval based RSI uses the last known prices for each calculation. So the RSI-30 uses the last 30 interval prices and the RSI-60 uses 60 interval prices.

I have made some graphs to show you the signal of the RSI bot.


The first graph is the graph of the currency, in this case it is Bitstamp at BtcUsd. The green line is the buy price and the red line is the sell price. The second graph is a graph of the RSI-30 its response. The blue line is the RSI value. The red line (70 = 70%) indicates from where the bot begins to send the signal to sell*. In this case it is at 70 and up. The same applies to the green line, but then its 30% and less. The third graph is one of the RSI-60 bot. Notice the slower response to the currency of the RSI-60 compared to the one of RSI-30.

* ) The sell signal is visible in the logbook as: Sell level reached xx %

Once the RSI indicates the buy or sell signal the trade bot will look to your last prices and wanted drop or raise. The difference is called the "calculated drop" or "calculated raise". This part will also be visible in the logbook as:

RSI-30 Bot: Profit is too low.
Calculated profit -0.19 Usd (without fee) (last buy value 123.6 Usd, current sell price xxxxx Usd).

So this message only shows that if the coins are sold right now, as the RSI indicator wants, then you will be making losses on the trade. So the result is that the trade is blocked until the amount of profit is found too.

Only and only if both signals tell to sell or buy the trade bot will react on it.

BTW These graphs are produced by the software. So what you see here is exactly the response of the software and its calculations.

Your exact problem are your last buy and sell prices and possibly your drop** and profit**. Looking at your entice description i think the sell level is never found. The solution is to lower the last buy or sell prices or to set them to 0.

** ) The need to be multiplied by the trade amount.
I hope this clear up all the questions you have asked.

Testing continues.

Because I cannot get the bot to do anything that remotely makes any sense to me (or make a profitable trade) I performed the following test in the last few hours:

Settings:
Interval = 30000ms
Trade amount = .1
Block trade if profit < .3
Block trade if drop  < .3
Buy @ 38
Sell @ 62

I gave the bot an account with both USD and BTC in it, so it could do what it wanted.  I placed the bot in the water @ $121.  Feeling this was a low point in the market, I selected the SOLD tabs, hoping the bot would use the USD to purchase BTC at the low prices.  With the price initially pretty calm @ 121, the bot's RSI score settled in around a sensible 50.

Over the next few hours I watched the price eb and flow.  When the price would rise, the bot's RSI numbers would drop... pushing it toward a buy (38).  When the price would fall, the RSI would rise, pushing it toward a sell (62).  Over the next 3 hours the price fell all the way to 118 (a damn good buy).  The bot's RSI stayed high ( >70) and would have _sold_ down there if not for the SOLD tab already being checked.

After an hour or so the price recovered and the RSI evened out to around 50 before a brief spike to 122... RSI dropped, and the bot made the purchase AT THE VERY HIGHEST POINT IF COULD in the 5 hour test.

Since that time, the bot has repeatedly tried to sell that purchase low, with the message "SELL LEVEL REACHED" followed by the stop-loss kicking in by saying "PROFIT IS TOO LOW" (duh).

FINDINGS:  Under normal market conditions and with the settings above, this bot tries to buy high and sell low; but is stopped by it's own safeguards (thankfully).

Can somebody _please_ tell me what I am doing wrong here? 

I am an experienced trader and own two other bots, but I must admit I am frustrated with this one.  As has been noted by others trying to use this bot, it _appears_ to want to try to trade "backwards".

I did follow the instructions carefully, and double, triple and quadruple-checked with the help files.  They are far from clear, so let me go over them "aloud" here, and maybe somebody can tell me what I am doing wrong.

>>> I have USD in the trade account, so I start the bot near the bottom of what I believe to be the trade swing, setting the "Last Buy" tab to "sold".   I start both RSI bots, using recommended settings;  20sec intervals, buy @ 30% sell @70%, minimum profit block * 6.  To the best of my understanding, this is basic "should work" settings as outlined in the help text.

After watching the bot at these and similar settings, it appears to want to trade backward.  As trade value falls, the RSI numbers go _UP_, indicating the bot wants to sell.  No sale occur because the bot is already in "sold" mode, but no buy occurs low as it should because the RSI is high & high = sell.

I am familiar with RSI, but the bot seems to be using it somehow and for some reason in reverse...?

Having missed the opportunity to buy low, the price will eventually start to rise... and the RSI #s will _drop_!  Low is a buy indicator, so as the price gets high enough, the bot will buy... high!  Having bought high, it will not then sell higher... because the RSI numbers continue to drop (it would keep buying if it could).  Eventually the price will drop, and as it passes where the bot purchased, the RSI will rise... and the bot tries to sell low.  Sensing loss, the "block trade" settings cut in and no trade occurs, but the bot keeps trying the lower it gets ("8:16:27 AM RSI-30 Bot: Profit is too low.
8:16:58 AM RSI-30 bot: Sell level reached 73 %
8:16:58 AM RSI-30 Bot: Calculated profit -0.19 Usd (without fee) (last buy value 123.6 Usd, current sell").

I have tested this with dozens of settings close to the suggested settings, on both BTCe and BitStamp.  I have racked up a lot of trade fees in testing and can tell you that over a period of two days the bot is like clock-work; trying to buy high and sell low.  The log fills up with low sell attempts  but it never tries to sell when it is high & could have made a profit.

Now Stephan, I completely accept that it is me; I am doing something wrong.  The problem is that I have spent hours reading every word in this forum and on you website trying to figure out what it is, and I am at a loss (literally lol).

Now that I have voiced my frustrations, let try to get off the ground with a very specific question:  The default setting in the bot for a sell threshold is RSI 70%.  This is sound RSI thinking.  Why then does the RSI number in the bot _fall_ as the price rises?  Low = buy, which is _exactly_ what the bot does... it buys high every time I let it.

The profit you can make depends on the currency (and exchange) you have selected and how it evolves in time. It also depends on how you setup the trade bot parameters. The software itself uses technical indicators and a drop/profit threshold to determine if it is allowed to trade. So the indicators are responsible for the momentum. The drop/profit is responsible for earning at least a X amount. The real buy and sell prices are not equal to the last prices and the drop/profit amount. It well be higher because of the momentum the technical indicators produce.

When you get this software you have to understand you need to learn what good bot settings are. I (as the developer) are not allowed to tell you which setting i use because of a agreement i have with the exchanges. (they required that every user must be unique) But at the most default settings the software itself gives already profit. If you change the settings you can get higher profits.

You also need to understand this software requires time. You can not start it and get rich in a instant. No, this is not done. You have to wait for the evolution of the currency. So keep in mind this kind of software has been build for 24/7, not for just a hour or so.

The update that i will introduce will assist you more in finding some good bot parameters, it will also help you to find a good moment the bot can be activated. Both are things are a issue right now, like seanrarey reports. But it is planned to be (a lot) better in the near future. (sorry, NDA)

To get a indication how much you can earn you can have a look at the currency. A currency changes in time and it goes from low to high and back. The difference between this low and high is the part the trade bot could get in and out. So this will be a indication for the possible profits. You can see it like this: If the currency evolves between 117 and 118 the trade bot could make a profit of 1. It will be lower because of the momentum, but this is a example. So each "wave" it goes from 117 to 118 and back you can get 1 per coin you trade. The more coins you put in, the bigger the profit will be. This is the concept behind it.

Like i posted today i have done a trade run at Bitstamp and BTCe on BtcUsd the last 2 days. (44hours to be exact) I have earned 5 Usd per exchange, so i made 10 Usd in total. But again, this is just a example on default settings. Higher is possible, i have seen it happening.

I am a couple of days into playing with it, and I have to admit I am struggling with the logic of getting it set up right.  I am sure that it is me & not the bot (maybe I am just not smart enough), but I will definitely keep this board appraised of my progress.

Is anyone making profits with this? Seems like a good bot.

Thanks r32godzilla.

Support for Cryptsy is coming this month, i am writing the library myself now and it is going very well.

If you like the software already, you are gonna love the update i am planning. I can not disclose to much (NDA) but i can tell there will be graphs inside and i can tell i have changed the entire interface. The change in the interface was required because of the new approach and because of the new features i am introducing. Sound good? Just wait until i unveil all the changes and screenshots....

By the way:
Wilco requested a while ago to post some results. I did a trade run on my speculation rig for 44 hours the past 2 days on Bitstamp and BTCe at BtcUsd. I ran the RSI-30 bot on it at its default settings (30/70) and a update interval of 60seconds. The drop and profit safeties where set to 0.1 Usd. I traded 1 BTC and i made about 5 USD per exchange. I know this is low, but this is just a demonstration of what is possible by default.

I bought the Simple Trading bot a while ago and its great. Would love a version for Cryptsy pleeeeeease

Hello Stephan,
I am into programming too and I believe your a honest developer. I will probably give your bot a chance, but next week.

My Plan is too start with 3 BTC.
.6 for the bot purchasing, and the rest for trading.
I will trade Btc/USD or BTC/Euro from my Bitstamp Account

Any suggestions on my strategy are welcome

awesome, thanks.

The something that is missing is the momentum when you activated the trade bot. If you time this right the bot will surf on the currency. Compare it to setting a high/low bot or trading by hand. You sell your coins at the moment you think is the best. That is the same moment you activate a RSI trade bot.


No, if i should implement something like this the bot will buy the coins for a higher price again. And then you can only hope the increase will continue and if this not happens you will be making way more losses. The same applies to sudden drops and the buy momentum. But i am working on something to automatically "bail out" on sudden big drops.

The trade bot is a bot that looks at the amount of coins put to buy or sell. It calculates a ratio value out of it from 0 to up unknown values. The ratio should be a stable value during the trading. But it will detect the moment somebody puts a lot of coins to buy or sell. This trade bot works best with BTCe.

How about adding some graphs to the Simple Trade Bot? Well i can tell already they are coming! As soon as we hit version 0.9 beta they will be in the Simple Trade Bot. And if you think this is it... just wait because more is coming up. I am planning a lot of new features to this coming version. And i am not only talking about the SMA/MACD indicator...

As usual i will update all the existing users to this new version as soon as it has been released. You do not have to ask, you will be notified as usual by mail.

By the way: In the time between version 0.9 and now i will do a minor update to the Simple Trade Bot. This is for supporting more languages.

@id10tothe9:
I will explain you some things first and this will answer all your questions (and reports of losses).

You are setting the last buy and sale value (if you know them). My software will add the wanted profit (divided by the amount of coins) to the last buy value and by doing this is has a WantedSellValue. The same is done to the wanted drop (divided by the amount of coins) and last sell value, but now is does not add the wanted drop but minus them. This will result in a WantedBuyValue.

Now the bot will look to the RSI bot. If has a default treshold of 70 or higher to sell the coins and a default of 30 or lower. If the RSI indicates it is a good sell moment the bot will look to the calculated WantedSellValue and currency, is the currency is at least the WantedSellValue it will send a sell signal to the selected exchange. If the RSI indicates it is a good buy moment the bot will look to the WantedBuyValue and the currency. If the currency is equal or lower then the WantedBuyValue then the bot will buy the coins.

One of the securities that i have wrote is that the bot will warns you if the wanted profit value will be to low to cover any losses. This is the lowest of the lowest value you need to set to make a trade break even. So you need to listen to this warning.

Making the trade ratio bot disappear and showing a SMA bot is the result of clicking at specific places where there is no reason to click at all. The SMA bot you are seeing is a Alpha trade bot. This bot is hidden for a reason, it is for the alpha testers to take a look at and test it. I really recommend you do not use this bot right now, it is unstable and that will cause losses. (the bot will be added to the beta at some of the coming updates but then it will give profits of course)

The negative trade ratio is still supported because of compatibility reasons. The last saved bot setting could still contain a negative number and this could throw a unwanted exception. For the same reasons the trade amount could be set to 0. You could set them, but it is to stupid to do. For some stupid values the bot gives warnings. It could even block the trading itself.

Like i wrote down at the help; my trade bot only connects to the exchanges. This is done using open-soure API libaries which can be found at my website. The software itself does not connect to anything else. If it does you are scammed! ....and i know they are out there, i have downloaded a few of them myself.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong but somehow I'm loosing money. I tried with 1 BTC and now later with 5 BTC, I'm using the RIS-30 bot with order list size =1. the last sold and bought values are correct and the safety profit and drop were set to I 1.2 and 1 respectively, which are higher than the minimum required.

I start with bitcoins bought, then the bot waits and when the value starts dropping it sells and makes a profit. then the curve rises again and the bot does nothing, and misses the opportunity to ride the curve and it becomes a loss to buy btc again while the value has risen too high and it's too late.

another thing, I'm missing the safety measure of the trade ratio bot since a negative number for minimum makes no sense but I'm not sure how to set it. and also sometimes the trade ratio bot disappears and it becomes a SMA Crossing bot. is the program connecting to your website and receiving changes or how and why is this happening?
thanks!

Hello everyone,

I am use this program for a few days but I have only a profit of 0.00371 BTC.

Now I still playing with the settings, now I am curious what do you have for setting?

I use LTC/BTC with interval on 60 sec. Or can i better trade with BTC/EUR

Buy/sell go up and down.
RSI-30 30/70
RSI-60 30/70
Trade ratio 10/4

Trade amount 5 LTC.

Now I use all the bots.

Please share you setting and profit to help me and other people.

Wilco

Thanks. Everything seemed to be in order with the system clock, but I set up an additional re-sync task to execute every 8hrs so hopefully that takes care of the problem.

The "nonce parameter" is a calculated value based on your computer time. It is required by the API to make every call unique and in sync with the exchange.

I am not really sure when this exception is thrown exactly. But i know most people i spoke about it had there computer running in a domain. The other people i spoke did not sync there time server on there Windows version. So my advice for you is to look into these things, maybe if your computer/windows is completely in time sync it is solved.

I hope this will solve your problem because like i said i am not really sure why or when this happens, it has been reported in very rare cases. I am still not able to really reproduce it here.

@daybyter:
Thanks, i will have a look to the sources.

Hi Stephan224. I'm missing a lot of trading opportunities because the bot seems unable to get orders through on btc-e. The log shows attempts that are blocked for one reason or another:

1:43:09 PM RSI-30 Bot: Calculated profit 15.255 Usd (without fee) (last buy value 103.1 Usd, current sell value 106.2 Usd)
1:43:09 PM RSI-30 Bot: Placing sell order for 5 Btc at price 106.151 Usd
1:43:10 PM RSI-30 Bot: During the trade a exception has been catched. Please consult the error log for more information. (message: invalid nonce parameter; 1377106994 1377106990)
1:43:31 PM RSI-30 bot: Sell level reached 99 %
1:43:31 PM RSI-30 Bot: Calculated profit 15.255 Usd (without fee) (last buy value 103.1 Usd, current sell value 106.2 Usd)
1:43:31 PM RSI-30 Bot: Placing sell order for 5 Btc at price 106.151 Usd
1:43:31 PM RSI-30 Bot: During the trade a exception has been catched. Please consult the error log for more information. (message: invalid nonce parameter; 1377107016 1377107012)
1:43:51 PM RSI-30 bot: Sell level reached 99 %
1:43:51 PM RSI-30 Bot: Calculated profit 15.255 Usd (without fee) (last buy value 103.1 Usd, current sell value 106.2 Usd)
1:43:51 PM RSI-30 Bot: Placing sell order for 5 Btc at price 106.151 Usd
1:43:52 PM RSI-30 Bot: During the trade a exception has been catched. Please consult the error log for more information. (message: invalid nonce parameter; 1377107038 1377107032)
1:44:12 PM RSI-30 bot: Sell level reached 99 %
1:44:12 PM RSI-30 Bot: Calculated profit 15.255 Usd (without fee) (last buy value 103.1 Usd, current sell value 106.2 Usd)
1:44:12 PM RSI-30 Bot: Placing sell order for 5 Btc at price 106.151 Usd
1:44:14 PM RSI-30 Bot: During the trade a exception has been catched. Please consult the error log for more information. (message: invalid nonce parameter; 1377107059 1377107053)
1:44:34 PM RSI-30 bot: Sell level reached 99 %
1:44:34 PM RSI-30 Bot: Calculated profit 15.255 Usd (without fee) (last buy value 103.1 Usd, current sell value 106.2 Usd)
1:44:34 PM RSI-30 Bot: Placing sell order for 5 Btc at price 106.151 Usd
1:44:35 PM RSI-30 Bot: During the trade a exception has been catched. Please consult the error log for more information. (message: invalid nonce parameter; 1377107080 1377107075)

Any idea why this happens?

Java code doesn't help you? I released some of my code here:

https://github.com/ReAzem/cryptocoin-tradelib