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Topic: Haasonline Simple Trade Bot For BTCe and Bitstamp[Main topic] - page 114. (Read 416796 times)

full member
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BuyAnythingWithBitcoin.com
enki74, first, you are embedding your replies in other people's txt... makes it very difficult to understand or read (see post above).

2nd, you are still confusing _cost of trade_ and _price movement_.  As someone who actually makes a living trading, and doing so for a great many years, I can tell you that your trading assumptions are wrong, and will lose you money.  On the up side, Stephan's bot will protect you from yourself, as it is pretty foolproof (please don't take offense), and will work hard to keep you from making losing trades.

If you want to see the result for yourself, do some manual live trading off your formula.  The beauty of math is that numbers do not lie. Wink
member
Activity: 64
Merit: 10
@San1ty:
I simply avoid it to happen at all. Smiley
So I agree and you have made my point which is that the higher the trade amount the higher the fee and therefore the larger the "price movement" must be in order to have a trade. Many small trades = more profit potential May be better to trade 10 X an hour than 10 X a day. Anyway if you could explain the new ability of .9 to be on one currency pair more with more than one trade bot, would appreciate Smiley

On another subject, do I need to reset anything after the Jump out price is triggered like today on BTC/LTC?

Thanks again for the great work...



If you use technical market indicators you will notice they act before the lowest or highest point is reached. Of course this can cut you off some better momentum, but that is why i created version 0.9. Using more indicators an better momentum can be found. And again, there will be overhead inside it.

In the rare case a order be at the situation you have described (0,1%) the overall best solution is chosen: Wait it out. A currency goes up and down in time and the price will be reached most of the times. In absolute rare case it does not, you need to cancel the order yourself.

@enki74:
The exchange cost are build up like this:

Trade amount * Exchange-fee = Trade costs

So:
0.2 BTC * 0.2% = 0.0004 BTC
0.5 BTC * 0.2% = 0.0010 BTC
1.0 BTC * 0.2%  = 0.0020 BTC

To make an complete profitable trade you need to exchange 2 times (buy & sell), so you need to pay these costs 2 times to the exchange.

If you set the profit or drop amount to low the software will warn you about it. (that is an security measure)
sr. member
Activity: 449
Merit: 250
Software developer
@San1ty:
I simply avoid it to happen at all. Smiley

If you use technical market indicators you will notice they act before the lowest or highest point is reached. Of course this can cut you off some better momentum, but that is why i created version 0.9. Using more indicators an better momentum can be found. And again, there will be overhead inside it.

In the rare case a order be at the situation you have described (0,1%) the overall best solution is chosen: Wait it out. A currency goes up and down in time and the price will be reached most of the times. In absolute rare case it does not, you need to cancel the order yourself.

@enki74:
The exchange cost are build up like this:

Trade amount * Exchange-fee = Trade costs

So:
0.2 BTC * 0.2% = 0.0004 BTC
0.5 BTC * 0.2% = 0.0010 BTC
1.0 BTC * 0.2%  = 0.0020 BTC

To make an complete profitable trade you need to exchange 2 times (buy & sell), so you need to pay these costs 2 times to the exchange.

If you set the profit or drop amount to low the software will warn you about it. (that is an security measure)
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Activity: 168
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BuyAnythingWithBitcoin.com
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Activity: 64
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sr. member
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@San1ty:
Well thats very simple. I just keep track on all open orders at Bitstamp. As soon as i send a trade signal the amount of orders must go up. Once it goes down again i know the order has been filled.

This is not the perfect way, i agree. At version 0.9 i have improved the tracking of orders and there i will track them based on the order id itself. This enables me to offer 2 trade bots that can work on 1 exchange and 1 currency and it enabled multi-trading. Manuel trading can not impact the operation of the trade bot itself this way.


Thanks for replying, I'm really interested in automated trading (Quite a lot of experience with indicators and coding in Node.JS myself).

I'd like to go over a situation that I have in mind and I'd like to know how your bot reacts to this:

1) The Bot identifies a buying signal according to an indicator. It determines that it would like to buy 10 BTC at the current market sell price of $123.
2) The Bot creates an order 10 @ $123 but there is only 5 BTC being sold @ $123 and another 5 BTC @ $124.
3) The Bot now has an order open for the remaining 5 BTC, but it might never get filled.

There are a couple of solution in my opinion:

1) The bot scales up with the price, It'll pay $124 for the remaining 5 BTC.
2) The bot monitors the order and if it isn't filled after a while cancels the remaining amount and will continue trading with the 5 BTC that it managed to get.
3) The bot does not buy at all if there isn't enough BTC available at the identified price point.

What is your solution?
sr. member
Activity: 449
Merit: 250
Software developer
@San1ty:
Well thats very simple. I just keep track on all open orders at Bitstamp. As soon as i send a trade signal the amount of orders must go up. Once it goes down again i know the order has been filled.

This is not the perfect way, i agree. At version 0.9 i have improved the tracking of orders and there i will track them based on the order id itself. This enables me to offer 2 trade bots that can work on 1 exchange and 1 currency and it enabled multi-trading. Manuel trading can not impact the operation of the trade bot itself this way.


@dddbtc:
Trading on Bitstamp is still working, Bitstamp will change there API on the end of the month. Until that time you can still login using your loginname and password. Just be sure you have enabled the API capabilities. Thats all what is required. I have got 2 remote computers working on Bitstamp with no problems, so i expect you should have no problems to.

As usual i will make sure the API gets updated and with the next release you can trade at Bitstamp using the new API keys. I am implementing the new security now into the API.

Note: This is one of several reasons why i keep on recommending to get the software from me. Without it you will having a trade bot that does not work anymore by the end of the month.


@enki74:
Do you need some help from me too or did seanrarey explain it enough? Seanrarey is very, very good at mathmatics, i can tell you that. Wink
sr. member
Activity: 462
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Stephan, How do you make sure your order gets filled on Bitstamp? Their API does not have a MKT Order type so you need to work with LMT. How do you make sure you buy the amount of coins you want and that they will be filled?
member
Activity: 64
Merit: 10
So, is it correct that running two bots same currency and same exchange would cause coin loss?

I would like more trades at small amounts and was thinking to run on several machines to achieve this as when running with larger amounts the "change in price" must be higher to overcome the fee increase... Thanks

Um... there is so much wrong with your math... & yes, you would lose money.

Wink

What math? please elaborate? greater amounts = greater fee = greater movement needed to make a trade correct?

No.  Fees are percentage based.  Fee for a $100 trade with a .2% fee is is $0.20.  Fees for 100 $1 trades is... any guesses...? Yep, exactly the same.

ok so how many $100.20 trades a day are u going to make given its got to move 20 cent before u trade vs 100 $1 trades w $.002 fee price only needs to move .002 befor profit begins to be made..... does this make sense? Smiley smart a...

OK lets start with your first line .2 X 2 got it two trades to make any money to pay for fees.
2nd line .4% this is really 100 X .4% = .4 or 40 cents not 4 $ right? Why $96?

If we agree,
then... .20 btc X .4% = .0008, x 2 trades = .0016 trade fee or .0016 btc (roughly 1.6 cents @$100) required movement before profit.

then..  .80 btc X .4% = .0032,  x 2 trades = .0064 trade fee or .0064 btc (roughly 6.4 cents @$100) required movement before profit.


No, actually it does not.

If the trade fee is 0.2% then 0.4% is the minimum the price must move to accomplish a trade w/o making a loss.  If the price is $100, that means it needs to drop to <$96 before you can trade & expect to make a profit (favorable bounce assumed).

So, lets do an exercise.  Say price drops to $99.50  Your position is $100, so it is a drop of 0.5%.  Having done due diligence you are confident this is a spike (not a trend), the drop is sufficient to pay your fees (>0.4%) and wish to capitalize in it.  You buy, wait for the price to return to $100 and sell.

The differential is 0.5%

If you traded $1, you made one half of one cent.
If you traded $1,000 you made $5.

How much you trade had no affect on your profit points & percentages.  It only affects your net profit.

To put it in your words, the market must move exactly the same amount to realize profit; regardless of amount traded.

_________clip__________
ok so how many $100.20 trades a day are u going to make given its got to move 20 cent before u trade vs 100 $1 trades w $.002 fee price only needs to move .002 befor profit begins to be made..... does this make sense? Smiley smart a...
_________clip__________

Um, no, you are confusing fee percent with market movement.  Market movement as it relates to profit does not move with the fee lol.

full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
BuyAnythingWithBitcoin.com
So, is it correct that running two bots same currency and same exchange would cause coin loss?

I would like more trades at small amounts and was thinking to run on several machines to achieve this as when running with larger amounts the "change in price" must be higher to overcome the fee increase... Thanks

Um... there is so much wrong with your math... & yes, you would lose money.

Wink

What math? please elaborate? greater amounts = greater fee = greater movement needed to make a trade correct?

No.  Fees are percentage based.  Fee for a $100 trade with a .2% fee is is $0.20.  Fees for 100 $1 trades is... any guesses...? Yep, exactly the same.

ok so how many $100.20 trades a day are u going to make given its got to move 20 cent before u trade vs 100 $1 trades w $.002 fee price only needs to move .002 befor profit begins to be made..... does this make sense? Smiley smart a...

No, actually it does not.

If the trade fee is 0.2% then 0.4% is the minimum the price must move to accomplish a trade w/o making a loss.  If the price is $100, that means it needs to drop to <$99.60 before you can trade & expect to make a profit (favorable bounce assumed).

So, lets do an exercise.  Say price drops to $99.50  Your position is $100, so it is a drop of 0.5%.  Having done due diligence you are confident this is a spike (not a trend), the drop is sufficient to pay your fees (>0.4%) and wish to capitalize in it.  You buy, wait for the price to return to $100 and sell.

The differential is 0.5%

If you traded $1, you made one half of one cent.
If you traded $1,000 you made $5.

How much you trade had no affect on your profit points & percentages.  It only affects your net profit.

To put it in your words, the market must move exactly the same amount to realize profit; regardless of amount traded.

_________clip__________
ok so how many $100.20 trades a day are u going to make given its got to move 20 cent before u trade vs 100 $1 trades w $.002 fee price only needs to move .002 befor profit begins to be made..... does this make sense? Smiley smart a...
_________clip__________

Um, no, you are confusing fee percent with market movement.  Market movement as it relates to profit does not move with the fee lol.
member
Activity: 64
Merit: 10
So, is it correct that running two bots same currency and same exchange would cause coin loss?

I would like more trades at small amounts and was thinking to run on several machines to achieve this as when running with larger amounts the "change in price" must be higher to overcome the fee increase... Thanks

Um... there is so much wrong with your math... & yes, you would lose money.

Wink

What math? please elaborate? greater amounts = greater fee = greater movement needed to make a trade correct?

No.  Fees are percentage based.  Fee for a $100 trade with a .2% fee is is $0.20.  Fees for 100 $1 trades is... any guesses...? Yep, exactly the same.

ok so how many $100.20 trades a day are u going to make given its got to move 20 cent before u trade vs 100 $1 trades w $.002 fee price only needs to move .002 befor profit begins to be made..... does this make sense? Smiley smart a...
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
BuyAnythingWithBitcoin.com
So, is it correct that running two bots same currency and same exchange would cause coin loss?

I would like more trades at small amounts and was thinking to run on several machines to achieve this as when running with larger amounts the "change in price" must be higher to overcome the fee increase... Thanks

Um... there is so much wrong with your math... & yes, you would lose money.

Wink

What math? please elaborate? greater amounts = greater fee = greater movement needed to make a trade correct?

No.  Fees are percentage based.  Fee for a $100 trade with a .2% fee is is $0.20.  Fees for 100 $1 trades is... any guesses...? Yep, exactly the same.
member
Activity: 64
Merit: 10
So, is it correct that running two bots same currency and same exchange would cause coin loss?

I would like more trades at small amounts and was thinking to run on several machines to achieve this as when running with larger amounts the "change in price" must be higher to overcome the fee increase... Thanks

Um... there is so much wrong with your math... & yes, you would lose money.

Wink

What math? please elaborate? greater amounts = greater fee = greater movement needed to make a trade correct?
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
BuyAnythingWithBitcoin.com
So, is it correct that running two bots same currency and same exchange would cause coin loss?

I would like more trades at small amounts and was thinking to run on several machines to achieve this as when running with larger amounts the "change in price" must be higher to overcome the fee increase... Thanks

Um... there is so much wrong with your math... & yes, you would lose money.

Wink
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 250
Bitstamp function isn't working in the beta version and .9 alpha version.  I've tried logging in with my username/pass as well as the api key and secret.  The api key is enabled under security-->api but the bot still won't connect.

Did you tick info and trade? I assume its like btc-e?

Yes Sad I enabled all permissions on api except for withdrawing
member
Activity: 64
Merit: 10
So, is it correct that running two bots same currency and same exchange would cause coin loss?

I would like more trades at small amounts and was thinking to run on several machines to achieve this as when running with larger amounts the "change in price" must be higher to overcome the fee increase... Thanks
member
Activity: 64
Merit: 10
Anyone post screenshot of your RSI-30 bot.
In my bot i only see next message "RSI-30 bot started" 10 minutes already. 0 orders.


did you look at benchmark trade bot it will show when a trade is possible... Takes time sometimes....
member
Activity: 64
Merit: 10
Bitstamp function isn't working in the beta version and .9 alpha version.  I've tried logging in with my username/pass as well as the api key and secret.  The api key is enabled under security-->api but the bot still won't connect.

Did you tick info and trade? I assume its like btc-e?
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
BuyAnythingWithBitcoin.com
Bitstamp function isn't working in the beta version and .9 alpha version.  I've tried logging in with my username/pass as well as the api key and secret.  The api key is enabled under security-->api but the bot still won't connect.

It works for me, so likely a setting issue.
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 250
Bitstamp function isn't working in the beta version and .9 alpha version.  I've tried logging in with my username/pass as well as the api key and secret.  The api key is enabled under security-->api but the bot still won't connect.
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