Topic: Has anyone sold BTC won here in sig campaigns? how does tax work? - page 4. (Read 688 times)
January 05, 2018, 05:46:07 PM
Every month I sell my Bitcoin that I get from signature campaigns. Till now I haven't faced any problem. But from this month onwards I heard that the government is going to be very strict towards cryptousers. In my country last month government raided all the important exchanges and collected the details of all bank accounts involved in trading. But I don't think government will take any action against them because it's not possible for them to register case against lakhs of crypto users.
January 05, 2018, 10:42:29 AM
Mintpal dies out of nowhere and now you don't have your account anymore. How do you prove the origin? and if you can't prove the origin, you are fucked.
You can prove the origin of your coins, though. Let's say you have some signature campaign earnings as the OP indicates. Those transactions and the threads that describe them are archived. You can sign an message from your receiving address. Mintpal's wallets are (or can be) identified. You can show the transaction from your campaign receiving address to Mintpal, and you can show a withdrawal from Mintpal (on the blockchain) to an address you control.
Segwit's scripting complicates this, but this wasn't an issue in the days of Mintpal.
Similarly, if you wired money to an exchange to buy BTC, you can show bank records that reflect that. And you can show withdrawals on the blockchain that reflect your BTC holdings from that transaction.
Can you explain how do I prove that:
1) I sent my coins to a Mintpal deposit
2) I withdrew the coisn to a Mintpal deposit
If mintpal doesn't exist?
Exchanges create deposit and withdraw amounts for each individual account and the exchange is dead, im not sure how this could be proved. All that there is is some transactions in the blockchain which would be anything.
As with other IRS investigations, they would need to prove that you received income that went unreported. The only way that your trading records can be disproven is by direct coordination with an exchange. If an exchange did not enforce KYC, this becomes difficult. I think that blockchain records reflecting the coins under your control during the relevant times are more than enough to show good faith effort. I think this is especially true in the case of exchanges that disappeared.
About unreported income... if you receive an income here in exchange of working in signature campaigns, as soon as you give them one address, they could link it to an account, the look for every address ever that you used with your account and they could see how much money total you've made with your account, and then accuse you of not having reported that income when you sell a part or all of it. So im not sure how this could work out.
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January 05, 2018, 07:43:41 AM
In this case, you can't show the profits as capital gains. You received the coins as salary. So when you sell your coins for fiat, you are required to pay the income tax rather than the capital gains tax. But it is a bit complex. I am not sure whether the tax calculation will be based on the exchange rate at the time of the sale, or the one at the time when you received the coins as salary.
You will be taxed on income tax and on capital gains. Following the above example:
You have chosen the wrong example.
You said that you have sent coins to Mintpal, 4 of them
So , here we have the starting point.
Then you traded on Mintpal and you withdraw 5 BTC.
You said that you have sent coins to Mintpal, 4 of them
So , here we have the starting point.
Then you traded on Mintpal and you withdraw 5 BTC.
You would be taxed on 4 bitcoins as income tax (if you earned them on signature campaigns) and on the other 1 as capital gain. At least that's what would happen in my country. It doesn't matter if you traded them or simply the value of bitcoin in terms of fiat grew and when you sold them the value in fiat was higher than when you earned them in signature campaigns.
January 05, 2018, 06:02:34 AM
In this case, you can't show the profits as capital gains. You received the coins as salary. So when you sell your coins for fiat, you are required to pay the income tax rather than the capital gains tax. But it is a bit complex. I am not sure whether the tax calculation will be based on the exchange rate at the time of the sale, or the one at the time when you received the coins as salary.
January 04, 2018, 06:41:21 PM
Not less weird at all, it's very weird to them, and precisely because it's traceable, you must prove it, if you can't prove it, then how are you supposed to sell?
Again, suppose that I sent coins into Mintpal, traded 1 BTC for LTC, and sold this LTC when it went up for a profit of 4 BTC, I end up with 5 BTC, then I deposit this 5 BTC back into my wallet.
Mintpal dies out of nowhere and now you don't have your account anymore. How do you prove the origin? and if you can't prove the origin, you are fucked. This is why im scared to sell BTC. Yes you may be able to solve it with signature campaigns (and im still worried that I should have been paying taxes because it would be considered a wage in exchange of a work and not an investment). They may decide to tax you with an extra for all the months that you didn't pay taxes on what is considered a wage when they realize you had a lot of payments (because once they have your bitcointalk account, they can trace all of your payments ever here, not just what you are reporting).
Again, suppose that I sent coins into Mintpal, traded 1 BTC for LTC, and sold this LTC when it went up for a profit of 4 BTC, I end up with 5 BTC, then I deposit this 5 BTC back into my wallet.
Mintpal dies out of nowhere and now you don't have your account anymore. How do you prove the origin? and if you can't prove the origin, you are fucked. This is why im scared to sell BTC. Yes you may be able to solve it with signature campaigns (and im still worried that I should have been paying taxes because it would be considered a wage in exchange of a work and not an investment). They may decide to tax you with an extra for all the months that you didn't pay taxes on what is considered a wage when they realize you had a lot of payments (because once they have your bitcointalk account, they can trace all of your payments ever here, not just what you are reporting).
You have chosen the wrong example.
You said that you have sent coins to Mintpal, 4 of them
So , here we have the starting point.
Then you traded on Mintpal and you withdraw 5 BTC.
Really don't see the problem here.
In case your country has laws for this in place you're going to have to pay for the profit you have made from trading.
It will help us a lot if we discussed with clear numbers and location of the activity (your country).
PS.
This may be ok if you are just dealing with small amount of sales, but let's say in 10 years 1 BTC is worth $1,000,000
How do you cash out $1,000,000 or any other amount near that? you can't do it through localbitcoins, you would need a million different merchants to cash out that much money.
Don't worry, in this case you could afford the best lawyers out there so you could probably get away with murder, not just taxa evasion. How do you cash out $1,000,000 or any other amount near that? you can't do it through localbitcoins, you would need a million different merchants to cash out that much money.
January 04, 2018, 05:44:15 PM
Mintpal dies out of nowhere and now you don't have your account anymore. How do you prove the origin? and if you can't prove the origin, you are fucked.
You can prove the origin of your coins, though. Let's say you have some signature campaign earnings as the OP indicates. Those transactions and the threads that describe them are archived. You can sign an message from your receiving address. Mintpal's wallets are (or can be) identified. You can show the transaction from your campaign receiving address to Mintpal, and you can show a withdrawal from Mintpal (on the blockchain) to an address you control.
Segwit's scripting complicates this, but this wasn't an issue in the days of Mintpal.
Similarly, if you wired money to an exchange to buy BTC, you can show bank records that reflect that. And you can show withdrawals on the blockchain that reflect your BTC holdings from that transaction.
As with other IRS investigations, they would need to prove that you received income that went unreported. The only way that your trading records can be disproven is by direct coordination with an exchange. If an exchange did not enforce KYC, this becomes difficult. I think that blockchain records reflecting the coins under your control during the relevant times are more than enough to show good faith effort. I think this is especially true in the case of exchanges that disappeared.
January 04, 2018, 02:30:57 PM
Yes they will care and it's only going to get worse. Any money without a dubious origin is at risk of being confiscated so you better be able to prove you obtained it legally.
Do you want me to cash out for you? I really think you're over egging this somewhat. All the proof anyone needs is on this forum and in their wallet's history. That's just as much proof as a house sale or car sale and considerably more than getting several grand for cleaning some old lady's drains.
January 04, 2018, 11:16:22 AM
If you have a source of income you can probably just sell small amounts over time and it would not raise any red flags. If you have nothing to hide and declare the income, if it's a larger amount, but it's not like bitcoin is illegal. you just declare and pay taxes and the IRS won't care.
January 04, 2018, 10:00:30 AM
In this case, you are going to need to explain the origin of your coins, and im not sure how I would explain I made some BTC posting in some internet forum, this may not be convincing to them even if it's the truth.
But it is the truth.
You should hopefully still be able to prove that you own the account that posted. You'll be able to point to the thread where you signed up. The thread will be there that describes the sig campaign and the pay rates. If you're sensible you'll retain the private key of the address that received the payments and lists each tx.
Screenshot everything now just in case.
People deposit millions in banks from selling art made out of their own sperm and turds. This is less weird by a long way and fully traceable.
Not less weird at all, it's very weird to them, and precisely because it's traceable, you must prove it, if you can't prove it, then how are you supposed to sell?
Again, suppose that I sent coins into Mintpal, traded 1 BTC for LTC, and sold this LTC when it went up for a profit of 4 BTC, I end up with 5 BTC, then I deposit this 5 BTC back into my wallet.
Mintpal dies out of nowhere and now you don't have your account anymore. How do you prove the origin? and if you can't prove the origin, you are fucked. This is why im scared to sell BTC. Yes you may be able to solve it with signature campaigns (and im still worried that I should have been paying taxes because it would be considered a wage in exchange of a work and not an investment). They may decide to tax you with an extra for all the months that you didn't pay taxes on what is considered a wage when they realize you had a lot of payments (because once they have your bitcointalk account, they can trace all of your payments ever here, not just what you are reporting).
I can't imagine tax authorities asking you for your Bitcointalk login or private keys. They certainly shouldn't, and technically that wouldn't prove ownership of the funds at the time they were paid. I'd archive the sig campaign threads in case the site gets nuked, but that's more about proving where funds are derived from and less about taxes.
I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.
I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.
They won't really care. None of them care. You just tell them you have a screenshots and few bits and bobs that'll let them offload the problem on someone else if it ever arises, and it won't. They won't even ask to see them.
Yes they will care and it's only going to get worse. Any money without a dubious origin is at risk of being confiscated so you better be able to prove you obtained it legally.
January 03, 2018, 09:59:00 AM
I can't imagine tax authorities asking you for your Bitcointalk login or private keys. They certainly shouldn't, and technically that wouldn't prove ownership of the funds at the time they were paid. I'd archive the sig campaign threads in case the site gets nuked, but that's more about proving where funds are derived from and less about taxes.
I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.
I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.
They won't really care. None of them care. You just tell them you have a screenshots and few bits and bobs that'll let them offload the problem on someone else if it ever arises, and it won't. They won't even ask to see them.
This also even a risk to some 3rd world countries. Unlike those countries where bitcoin can be freely used. I guess this is the downside of taxless transactions. Some government banned bitcoin they though it will just bring their country into a bad demise. Also government cant really profit if that is the case. Some may say that bitcoin is some kind of tax evation but i think the only problem is dictating where you get your profit.
i was only today talking to a friend about this.
Going forward how do we liquidate crypto to fiat ?(unfortunately it doesnt look like we can use crypto widely)
i am in europe and i know if there is any deposit made greater than 5000€ questions will be asked and potentially subject to tax.
Each country do have different limitations when it comes to max transactions which is normal because they do really need to impose laws that would really fight money laundering and tax evasions and other related cases.Going forward how do we liquidate crypto to fiat ?(unfortunately it doesnt look like we can use crypto widely)
i am in europe and i know if there is any deposit made greater than 5000€ questions will be asked and potentially subject to tax.
January 02, 2018, 05:08:39 PM
I can't imagine tax authorities asking you for your Bitcointalk login or private keys. They certainly shouldn't, and technically that wouldn't prove ownership of the funds at the time they were paid. I'd archive the sig campaign threads in case the site gets nuked, but that's more about proving where funds are derived from and less about taxes.
I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.
I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.
They won't really care. None of them care. You just tell them you have a screenshots and few bits and bobs that'll let them offload the problem on someone else if it ever arises, and it won't. They won't even ask to see them.
This also even a risk to some 3rd world countries. Unlike those countries where bitcoin can be freely used. I guess this is the downside of taxless transactions. Some government banned bitcoin they though it will just bring their country into a bad demise. Also government cant really profit if that is the case. Some may say that bitcoin is some kind of tax evation but i think the only problem is dictating where you get your profit.
January 02, 2018, 03:28:04 AM
I can't imagine tax authorities asking you for your Bitcointalk login or private keys. They certainly shouldn't, and technically that wouldn't prove ownership of the funds at the time they were paid. I'd archive the sig campaign threads in case the site gets nuked, but that's more about proving where funds are derived from and less about taxes.
I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.
I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.
They won't really care. None of them care. You just tell them you have a screenshots and few bits and bobs that'll let them offload the problem on someone else if it ever arises, and it won't. They won't even ask to see them.
This also even a risk to some 3rd world countries. Unlike those countries where bitcoin can be freely used. I guess this is the downside of taxless transactions. Some government banned bitcoin they though it will just bring their country into a bad demise. Also government cant really profit if that is the case. Some may say that bitcoin is some kind of tax evation but i think the only problem is dictating where you get your profit.
January 01, 2018, 02:25:08 PM
i was only today talking to a friend about this.
Going forward how do we liquidate crypto to fiat ?(unfortunately it doesnt look like we can use crypto widely)
i am in europe and i know if there is any deposit made greater than 5000€ questions will be asked and potentially subject to tax.
Going forward how do we liquidate crypto to fiat ?(unfortunately it doesnt look like we can use crypto widely)
i am in europe and i know if there is any deposit made greater than 5000€ questions will be asked and potentially subject to tax.
January 01, 2018, 02:11:52 PM
I can't imagine tax authorities asking you for your Bitcointalk login or private keys. They certainly shouldn't, and technically that wouldn't prove ownership of the funds at the time they were paid. I'd archive the sig campaign threads in case the site gets nuked, but that's more about proving where funds are derived from and less about taxes.
I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.
I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.
They won't really care. None of them care. You just tell them you have a screenshots and few bits and bobs that'll let them offload the problem on someone else if it ever arises, and it won't. They won't even ask to see them.
January 01, 2018, 01:58:56 PM
In this case, you are going to need to explain the origin of your coins, and im not sure how I would explain I made some BTC posting in some internet forum, this may not be convincing to them even if it's the truth.
But it is the truth.
You should hopefully still be able to prove that you own the account that posted. You'll be able to point to the thread where you signed up. The thread will be there that describes the sig campaign and the pay rates. If you're sensible you'll retain the private key of the address that received the payments and lists each tx.
I can't imagine tax authorities asking you for your Bitcointalk login or private keys. They certainly shouldn't, and technically that wouldn't prove ownership of the funds at the time they were paid. I'd archive the sig campaign threads in case the site gets nuked, but that's more about proving where funds are derived from and less about taxes.
I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.
January 01, 2018, 01:38:57 PM
Hello to everybody. ı am new to the forums. CAn ı have some idea how to earn bitcois by posts.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
This is the main thread about them - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/overview-of-bitcointalk-signature-ad-campaigns-last-update-01-jan-23-615953
This is the forum where they appear - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=52.0
To get the most money you'll need a higher ranked account. Newcomers may not quality for any campaign, or just very small payments.
January 01, 2018, 01:28:18 PM
Hello to everybody. ı am new to the forums. CAn ı have some idea how to earn bitcois by posts.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
January 01, 2018, 01:26:19 PM
In the future I would like to buy some property with my BTC once it's worth a lot. Even small amounts made on signature campaigns in here could be worth a lot and may I want to diversify into real state in say 5 years or so.
I was wondering how would this be done? Im scared because we get daily news of any bank account that has to do with Bitcoin being frozen. I wouldn't like to be treated a criminal when I obtained my Bitcoin posting here... any help?
I was wondering how would this be done? Im scared because we get daily news of any bank account that has to do with Bitcoin being frozen. I wouldn't like to be treated a criminal when I obtained my Bitcoin posting here... any help?
I have been selling my signature campaign earnings every month. I also fall under 20% tax bracket as per my country's rule because I have a day job from where I earn a decent salary. So let me clarify this for you. Whatever bitcoins you will earn from signature campaign, can't be considered for capital gain because you earned it and not invested out of your pocket. So treat this amount as your income only. Don't factor in the price fluctuation here.
I calculate the entire amount that I cash out in my local currency and then add the amount in my tax information filing. I add this amount under "income from other sources" head. You can follow the same as I have been doing this since last two years. You may pay some tax out of your pocket but it's totally worth it as you are not hoarding any black money. Whatever you have earned, you have declared it and paid tax on it. I hope this helps!
January 01, 2018, 10:00:11 AM
This is an issue worrying me too, how to declare this ? How to justify this income ? Since they will ask the details of your accounts, how to explain you made 120 000 dollars with a signature ? They'll just believe it's a bad way to hide fraud money
January 01, 2018, 09:03:27 AM
In the future I would like to buy some property with my BTC once it's worth a lot. Even small amounts made on signature campaigns in here could be worth a lot and may I want to diversify into real state in say 5 years or so.
I was wondering how would this be done? Im scared because we get daily news of any bank account that has to do with Bitcoin being frozen. I wouldn't like to be treated a criminal when I obtained my Bitcoin posting here... any help?
That would really a big hindrance regarding on accumulating large amounts of money but i think it should be fine as long you are just gradually cashouting it not tend to make it on bulks because it would really turn out to be suspicious if you do such act.For now this is what im doing now which i indirectly cashouting my converted btc to local fiat into other payment options and saving it. I was wondering how would this be done? Im scared because we get daily news of any bank account that has to do with Bitcoin being frozen. I wouldn't like to be treated a criminal when I obtained my Bitcoin posting here... any help?
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