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Topic: Has anyone successfully evaded collections agencies by exchanging fiat into BTC? (Read 3769 times)

legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114
Before they do anything that hurts, they will have to take you to court.

No, they don't.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/if-wages-are-garnished-rights-33050.html

Wage Garnishments for Student Loans

The U.S. Department of Education (or any agency trying to collect a student loan on its behalf) can garnish up to 15% of your pay if you are in default on a student loan. No lawsuit or court order is required for this type of garnishment; if you are in default, your wages can be garnished.


Haha yeah ... show up to my place in the boonies and try to take my property without a court order. I forgot the rest of the world is a bunch of unarmed pansies.

Then the next day you get shot dead by ATF agents. That is the realistic outcome of your fantasy.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
it would certainly be easy enough to convert fiat to btc then declare bankruptcy .. or evade a court order seizing your assets by buying bitcoins
member
Activity: 65
Merit: 10
In some parts of the world if you do not pay back the debt the debt collector can seize any property from you. In the uK debt collection agencies send out bailiffs to the debtors house to collect any property that might be worth something, like cars, computers, furniture, jewellery, which will be auctioned off for roughly 50% of it's value and paid off against the debt. I assume this could extend to Bitcoin. You cannot prevent the Bailiffs from entering your house, if you do they will call the police who will try and force their way in. And you have to pay the Bailiffs a fee too which is automatically added onto the debt. They can also come back as many times as they want. This might seem bad but it isn't as bad as other parts of the world like South Korea where the debt collector can literally just show up at your door and break your legs if you don't pay up.

I'd say it may be possible to hide your money with Bitcoin. If you don't give up the password, there isn't a whole lot they can do about it. Though I strongly advise against doing this as it's almost certainly illegal, though I am not an expert on law or anything.

Wow. I don't use debt except for my mortgage but I would love to see these "bailifs" try that in the US. We have car recovery agents assaulted and even shot at times. I guess we have differeing opinions on private property and owership here.

To the original question, put your coins in a paper wallet and hide it well. Then wipe the hard drive on the computer you used to generate the wallet.   

Haha yeah ... show up to my place in the boonies and try to take my property without a court order. I forgot the rest of the world is a bunch of unarmed pansies.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1070
I don't think its possible to do what you pretend to do unless you are converting all of your fiat using LocalBitcoins and meeting up with people IRL. If you use regular exchanges you give way too much data.

what about using stuff like all4btc or buying with bitcoin without dumping? you scould evade pretty easy taxes collection

they could track(and it would not be easy) only if the amount i very large
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Back in my naive days, when I actually thought having a degree meant something, I managed to accrue a significant student loan debt, mostly from the out-of-state graduate school (that I did not even graduate from).

The plan always was to get a good enough job via the degree that would eventually help me repay the student loan. Fast forward 12 years: I am near-broke with a below-average salary job and a couple extra grand built up in interest on the loan. The loan agency will not make any deals with me to reduce the monthly payments, so basically I can either make my loan payment _or_ have food and a roof above my head.

Today I received a call from the agency (Aspire Resources) telling me I'm about to go into default, even though I made a nominal payment to try to reset the 270-day rule (turns out they only accept the monthly payment in full as criteria for "payment" -- I'm not sure if this is legal or not). So I quickly do some research and find out that not only can student loan collection agencies garnish your wages with a court order, but they can also freeze/empty your bank account and take back any tax refund money you might have.

So my question is, how feasible is it to use cryptocurrency should I have to hide money from these debt collectors? I can't pay my bills in bitcoin, and if bitcoin should drop down to $20 per BTC, then I might as well just have handed over the money to these weasels in the first place... Don't think the property manager will accept BTC either for rent - he's at least 70 years old.

My boss on the other hand is quite tech savvy and I'm sure I could request to be paid in bitcoin. The problem then becomes, can wages denominated in BTC also be garnished? Hard to say since its currently classified as "property" by the IRS. I live in a remote area which hardly even knows or much less understands bitcoin.

Has anyone here been in this situation before? Your thoughts on the matter are appreciated.

Thanks from a broke ex-neuroscientist.

So you said a degree isn't worth anything, but then you say 12 years later you aren't making much money??? So it sounds like you graduated with a bachelors in something, but dropped out of a Masters program? I gotta tell ya, you have to do your own due diligence on everything. I specifically chose my degree of Information Systems because the world is turning to analysis on everything with someone smart enough to make good decisions to save businesses money(Example would be to produce more of something at once to drive the cost down and figure seasonality of the item and how much volume it will realistically have).

If I didn't have a degree I would be fucked. I would not have a job, my girlfriend probably would have left me for not having a job that is better than working at Staples as a sleazy tech. My life would be stupid, I wouldn't be able to afford almost anything, probably have to live with my parents(unless I worked 2 jobs). If I worked 2 jobs then I have no life/no hobby/no fun. If you really want to get the most out of life you have to look into where the demand on something is, like degrees. You can't trust almost anyone who has an older way of thinking "just get a degree in some science thing that sounds good, people love science n stuff you will get a job". You need real data, and the government provides forecasts and growth estimates if you go to bls.gov or something like that.

And how is being a neuroscientist not higher than average paying??? I am pretty sure that field is EXPLODING as more and more money is being thrown at figuring out things in that field.
newbie
Activity: 31
Merit: 0
Whatever you do don't use the bitcoin address you posted on your profile to try to hide anything

1BE4Kb6Hp8QxK5AeYAbov734VXHmRMvJja
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1024
I can tell you that it will be very hard to prove that you're committing fraud, which is extremely helpful with this type of case.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
Before they do anything that hurts, they will have to take you to court. Watch for their paperwork, and then meet them in court. Go without an attorney - without being represented - and not pro se (representing yourself). Rather, let them know you are present.

Acknowledge all the debt, but tell them that your offer is that you can only afford $30 (or whatever) a month payments. If they turn you down on that, they haven't accepted your offer. They lose.

If they accept your terms, don't let them change your offer by 1 penny, up or down. If you do, it will appear that you have lied about what you can afford, and they will be able to rake you over the coals.

In all of this, be as humble and friendly and embarrassed about the situation as you can, especially in court. It will make a good impression.

Listen to Karl Lentz on Angela Stark's Talkshoe. There's lots of good info there about how to handle yourself in court, and in the letter-writing that you should do preceding it.

http://www.myprivateaudio.com/Karl-Lentz.html

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1252
I don't think its possible to do what you pretend to do unless you are converting all of your fiat using LocalBitcoins and meeting up with people IRL. If you use regular exchanges you give way too much data.
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114

PS: You are experiencing what I call "modern day slavery"


Yep, tell me about it...

At least I don't have kids and a 30-year mortgage, yet...

I can't even afford to be fucked over by owning a car.

You need to talk to a consumer credit counseling service in your state. They can help you work it out and sometimes can negotiate a lower payment or extended time to pay.

http://www.consumercredit.com/financial-education/student-loans/repaying-overview.aspx

Thank you, I will look into this.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1001
Crypto since 2014
sell everything you own / borrow as much money as you possibly can - FROM BANKS , empty your fiat currency account(s) , convert all your available currency into bitcoin through anonymous means (in person cash for bitcoin) , mix it thoroughly and put it on a flash drive , then declare bankruptcy or AND expatriate from the country , and then convert bitcoins back into fiat currency through anonymous means ... btw what i am suggesting is *highly* illegal and would constitute committing bank/credit fraud ... but it would fix your money woes ... so ... depending on just how desperate your situation is ... might be worth it ...

^^^That.
Or you can stay there and continue being fucked for the rest of your life.
And now that I mention it, you do realize that you only got one life right?
There is no afterlife, so it is up to you how you want to spend/waste/live your life.  Wink

PS: You are experiencing what I call "modern day slavery"

Oh yeah.

And now with self driving cars and new cars that will fine you if you speed! Our world is so corrupt, the government is trying to find new ways to take our money. Even though the money is actually just debt.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
sell everything you own / borrow as much money as you possibly can - FROM BANKS , empty your fiat currency account(s) , convert all your available currency into bitcoin through anonymous means (in person cash for bitcoin) , mix it thoroughly and put it on a flash drive , then declare bankruptcy or AND expatriate from the country , and then convert bitcoins back into fiat currency through anonymous means ... btw what i am suggesting is *highly* illegal and would constitute committing bank/credit fraud ... but it would fix your money woes ... so ... depending on just how desperate your situation is ... might be worth it ...

^^^That.
Or you can stay there and continue being fucked for the rest of your life.
And now that I mention it, you do realize that you only got one life right?
There is no afterlife, so it is up to you how you want to spend/waste/live your life.  Wink

PS: You are experiencing what I call "modern day slavery"
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
You need to talk to a consumer credit counseling service in your state. They can help you work it out and sometimes can negotiate a lower payment or extended time to pay.

http://www.consumercredit.com/financial-education/student-loans/repaying-overview.aspx
hero member
Activity: 1328
Merit: 563
MintDice.com | TG: t.me/MintDice
i would seriously just consider switching countries, converting what you have into btc and cash, moving somewhere more btc friendly and starting over there.

i know a friend that had a situation nearly identical to you and did something along the lines of what i just said. he couldn't be happier.

if you can mature past this irrational attachment to your country and rural area, your life conditions will improve.
full member
Activity: 173
Merit: 105
Has anyone successfully evaded collections agencies by exchanging fiat into BTC?

Yes

I made a nominal payment to try to reset the 270-day rule (turns out they only accept the monthly payment in full as criteria for "payment" -- I'm not sure if this is legal or not).

Yes, whether you pay $0 or $499.99 on a $500 note, you're in default.

So I quickly do some research and find out that not only can student loan collection agencies garnish your wages with a court order, but they can also freeze/empty your bank account and take back any tax refund money you might have.

Yes

So my question is, how feasible is it to use cryptocurrency should I have to hide money from these debt collectors?

The US is #1 in the world for money laundering (serious). Delaware C-corps and Wyoming and Nevada LLCs. How do you think the CIA moves all that money around for their black ops, and why do you think it's called "the company"?
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 501
As far as I know your best bet for this is LocalBitcoins and meeting locally (in person) with trusted sellers and exchange the BTC for cash, so no extra information is needed.
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
 frankenmint  okay so here's your problem:  As soon as a judgement is made to garnish your wages, it will then become a liability of your employer, NOT you, to repay the money.

---
I think you stated that wrong, the liability still is with the borrower. The employer is just the group in between the situation and ordered to garnish the wages. If that the employee quits and works somewhere else, that liability follows that employee.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
IANAL. In these situations legal advice is strongly recommended.

The critical difference here is that a wage garnishment is typically limited to 20%-30% of the take home pay while a bank account garnishment can go up to 100% of the funds on deposit. So if the employer pays in Bitcoin or Cash the creditors are limited to the 20%-30%; however if the employer deposits the wage into a bank the creditors can get 100% of the wages by a bank account garnishment. The other thing to keep in mind is that collection agencies typically go after the easy assets and that one of the purposes of collection calls is to try to get the debtor to reveal information about his or her assets or sources of income.
 
For this reason anyone who is afraid of creditors would avoid the banking system and stick to cash and crypto-currency unless they go into bankruptcy or some kind of creditor proposal. There is a reason for the popularity of cheque cashing stores.

There is also the question of practicality it is way cheaper for a creditor to get a bank account garnishment than to get the courts to force a debtor to reveal a Bitcoin private key.

One of the advantages of having some XBT in this kind of situation is that the XBT can be used to pay for legal advice, particularly as is often the case when collection agencies step on the wrong side of the law.


Edit: The choice between Bitcoin and a bank account in this situation could easily be between the creditors getting 30% of take home pay or the creditors getting 100% of take home pay.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1000
Satoshi is rolling in his grave. #bitcoin
@OP I dont know what are the laws in your country, but in whatever form you recieve your paycheck, one part of it (depending on local laws, here its 30%)
has to be paid out to debt claiming previous to releasing the rest to you. So what it means is that, even tho you can possibly be paid out in btc, you probably cant take
your whole paycheck because it is on your boss to pay the penalty if they see by records that you are working and getting paid, and he isnt sending them part of your pay.

On the other hand, im in a position where all my accounts within my country are blocked due to debts, but i found a way to still do my bussines through foreign banks,
that are not affected by any limitations. But if i am to be hired by local bussiness owner, he would still have to cut a part of my paycheck for debt collection.

cheers
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 3056
Welt Am Draht
Wow, America really is a horrible place in terms of laws, politics and freedom.
In the UK we have to earn a a certain amount and only then do we begin paying back our student loans which just comes off our salary as income tax. Anything not paid off after 25 years is just written off.

That sounds like a recipe of disaster.
You are shifting the risk of you not earning well to the bank?
I wonder why banks would give education loans then.

In the UK tuition fees for college and university are a very recent development. When I was a nipper university was free and they gave you free money to live on.

Our education loans aren't provided by conventional banking channels. They're backed by the government who probably fully expect a large proportion to never get paid back.

As for the OP's dilemma, it's going to be a toughie to slip into crypto without leaving a paper trail somewhere. Cash into ATMs would work. Lamassu ATMs come with ID verification disabled. I think it would depend on what state you're in.
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