I think I would stop making any payments, use your money for living expenses, it's already in collections anyway. Be suspicious of what collection agencies tell you. They say anything to get any amount of payment, they most likely bought the debt at a discount and want to get what they can. They will have to sue and get a court order to garnish your wages or take anything from you. Sounds like you don't have any assets to take and if you are barely making living a wage garnish maybe a lot cheaper than $500/month. Who knows maybe they won't bother with courts and just write it off. Not paying debt is not illegal, creditors take risk when borrowing money. Part of that risk is they might not get paid back. Definitely take this with grain of salt and talk to lawyer though.
"If you default on a federally-insured student loan, the Department of Education can garnish up to 15% of your disposable income without a court judgment. State and federal tax authorities also may undertake collection remedies without first going to court."
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-unsecured-debt.html
Topic: Has anyone successfully evaded collections agencies by exchanging fiat into BTC? - page 2. (Read 3769 times)
April 10, 2015, 04:32:28 PM
April 10, 2015, 03:30:56 PM
I tried sending them nominal payments, but they will only accept the monthly payment in full as "payment," and each one is over $500. I just can't afford that, and they won't work with me to reduce the payment amount. So even if I sent them a check for $499, it wouldn't stop me from going into default.
Hmm, looks sketchy to me. Creditors will often do illegal things just assuming that the debtor won't go legal on them. They might be legally obligated to do a financial hardship reduction in your monthly payment if your income is below a certain level. That payment seems really high. It might be worth $50 bucks for a 30-minute consultation with a lawyer to look into this, or you could start by posting on a free legal advice forum. (even bitcointalk has a legal forum you might try there).
The problem is, the cost of living here is incredibly high and my job pays a mediocre salary. When you add in other bills, payments and repayments (and I don't even have a car), I barely have enough money for frozen burritos at the end of the month. The reason why they won't negotiate the monthly payment down, they claim, is because I already used up my deferrals and forbearance. But thanks for the advice, you are right, it will probably come to that point pretty soon.
April 10, 2015, 10:40:39 AM
I don't live in the U.S. but usually a collections agency is allowed to take most of your property if you can't pay so it doesn't really matter. They won't simply give up just because you're out of money they'll just take your car or anything else.
I thought even a collection agency has to sue you in a court of law and obtain a judgement against you before they could actually take anything from you.
Right?
April 09, 2015, 10:00:34 PM
Wow, America really is a horrible place in terms of laws, politics and freedom.
In the UK we have to earn a a certain amount and only then do we begin paying back our student loans which just comes off our salary as income tax. Anything not paid off after 25 years is just written off.
In the UK we have to earn a a certain amount and only then do we begin paying back our student loans which just comes off our salary as income tax. Anything not paid off after 25 years is just written off.
Nothing is "written off". By saying "written off", the bankers mean that the burden is transferred from a person to someone else. If the banks write-off a large part of their loans, then the remaining will become prohibitively expensive for us.
April 09, 2015, 08:21:40 PM
Wow, America really is a horrible place in terms of laws, politics and freedom.
In the UK we have to earn a a certain amount and only then do we begin paying back our student loans which just comes off our salary as income tax. Anything not paid off after 25 years is just written off.
In the UK we have to earn a a certain amount and only then do we begin paying back our student loans which just comes off our salary as income tax. Anything not paid off after 25 years is just written off.
That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
You are shifting the risk of you not earning well to the bank?
I wonder why banks would give education loans then.
April 09, 2015, 02:00:27 PM
I say just wait it out. The US student loan bubble should be bursting anytime now, and it will make the sub-prime mortgage bubble look like a rainy day. Banks can take houses back to recuperate some of their losses, but they won't be able to take all those educations back and re-sell them. Sooner or later they'll have to start cancelling substantial amounts of the student loans they've been fraudulently issuing for all these years.
I agree. Don't even think about paying off the whole debt. Focus on just making the absolute minimum, preferably before they start garnishing your wages and making this a legal hassle. If they wanted to, they could use this against people as a way of restricting their travel. Don't let it get to that point. Hopefully you can pay the minimum and still get by financially, then in a few years this whole thing will blow up and you might have better options.
I tried sending them nominal payments, but they will only accept the monthly payment in full as "payment," and each one is over $500. I just can't afford that, and they won't work with me to reduce the payment amount. So even if I sent them a check for $499, it wouldn't stop me from going into default.
The truth is, a lot of us got scammed when we were younger. Nobody told us to know better, but we were promised this bright, prosperous new economy in which anything was achievable "if you put your mind to it." The newer generation is getting screwed even harder now, and their degrees will be worth even less. A lot of the money goes to the administrators and regents who want to live like rockstars off the backs of poor, naive kids.
I don't really think I became a real adult until after age 27... Your brain isn't finished developing until age 24... Taking financial advantage of people younger than that just isn't right, especially when it comes to something like education.
April 09, 2015, 11:37:19 AM
Although I haven't heard of any incidents in which Bitcoins were used to evade the collections agencies, this comes quite close:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2646995/Divorcing-spouses-use-Bitcoin-hide-wealth-estranged-partners-court-battles.html
http://www.coindesk.com/divorcee-hide-assets-bitcoins/
Lol... Bitcoin is in its infancy... Within the next few years, we are going to discover many such uses of the BTC.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2646995/Divorcing-spouses-use-Bitcoin-hide-wealth-estranged-partners-court-battles.html
http://www.coindesk.com/divorcee-hide-assets-bitcoins/
Lol... Bitcoin is in its infancy... Within the next few years, we are going to discover many such uses of the BTC.
April 09, 2015, 11:00:45 AM
I say just wait it out. The US student loan bubble should be bursting anytime now, and it will make the sub-prime mortgage bubble look like a rainy day. Banks can take houses back to recuperate some of their losses, but they won't be able to take all those educations back and re-sell them. Sooner or later they'll have to start cancelling substantial amounts of the student loans they've been fraudulently issuing for all these years.
I agree. Don't even think about paying off the whole debt. Focus on just making the absolute minimum, preferably before they start garnishing your wages and making this a legal hassle. If they wanted to, they could use this against people as a way of restricting their travel. Don't let it get to that point. Hopefully you can pay the minimum and still get by financially, then in a few years this whole thing will blow up and you might have better options.
April 09, 2015, 10:51:49 AM
Just do what the government does to pay off their debts... buy and machine and print the money! 
April 09, 2015, 10:37:16 AM
Wow, America really is a horrible place in terms of laws, politics and freedom.
In the UK we have to earn a a certain amount and only then do we begin paying back our student loans which just comes off our salary as income tax. Anything not paid off after 25 years is just written off.
In the UK we have to earn a a certain amount and only then do we begin paying back our student loans which just comes off our salary as income tax. Anything not paid off after 25 years is just written off.
April 09, 2015, 10:18:29 AM
it depends on the amount to be honest, for small amount, they will not track back you(tracking back someone for evading isn't free, it cost money, they can't do it everytime)
for big amount i'm waiting this year(june for taxation up to september) to see if i succeed in evading taxes or not lol, i know it's stupid, but bitcoin isn't regulated here and i don't want to pay taxes for this
for big amount i'm waiting this year(june for taxation up to september) to see if i succeed in evading taxes or not lol, i know it's stupid, but bitcoin isn't regulated here and i don't want to pay taxes for this
April 09, 2015, 08:10:07 AM
What is the right thing to do? You voluntarily incurred a debt. Don't let it be on your conscience or your record by trying to weasel or rationalize a way out of it. Better to be poor and of good character than evade the debt and carry the weight of sin thereafter, not to mention any other consequences.
I understand about the frustration of carrying debt for an unused degree; I've still got five years payments to make on my (stay at home) wife's degree. But whether it was useful or not is irrelevant. It's not the lenders fault if we buy something on credit and it winds up sitting around the house unused. And while I fault the "education" industry for over-selling its wares, it's still a choice people make for themselves in the end.
I understand about the frustration of carrying debt for an unused degree; I've still got five years payments to make on my (stay at home) wife's degree. But whether it was useful or not is irrelevant. It's not the lenders fault if we buy something on credit and it winds up sitting around the house unused. And while I fault the "education" industry for over-selling its wares, it's still a choice people make for themselves in the end.
April 08, 2015, 07:45:58 PM
In some parts of the world if you do not pay back the debt the debt collector can seize any property from you. In the uK debt collection agencies send out bailiffs to the debtors house to collect any property that might be worth something, like cars, computers, furniture, jewellery, which will be auctioned off for roughly 50% of it's value and paid off against the debt. I assume this could extend to Bitcoin. You cannot prevent the Bailiffs from entering your house, if you do they will call the police who will try and force their way in. And you have to pay the Bailiffs a fee too which is automatically added onto the debt. They can also come back as many times as they want. This might seem bad but it isn't as bad as other parts of the world like South Korea where the debt collector can literally just show up at your door and break your legs if you don't pay up.
I'd say it may be possible to hide your money with Bitcoin. If you don't give up the password, there isn't a whole lot they can do about it. Though I strongly advise against doing this as it's almost certainly illegal, though I am not an expert on law or anything.
I'd say it may be possible to hide your money with Bitcoin. If you don't give up the password, there isn't a whole lot they can do about it. Though I strongly advise against doing this as it's almost certainly illegal, though I am not an expert on law or anything.
Wow. I don't use debt except for my mortgage but I would love to see these "bailifs" try that in the US. We have car recovery agents assaulted and even shot at times. I guess we have differeing opinions on private property and owership here.
To the original question, put your coins in a paper wallet and hide it well. Then wipe the hard drive on the computer you used to generate the wallet.
April 08, 2015, 07:37:08 PM
In some parts of the world if you do not pay back the debt the debt collector can seize any property from you. In the uK debt collection agencies send out bailiffs to the debtors house to collect any property that might be worth something, like cars, computers, furniture, jewellery, which will be auctioned off for roughly 50% of it's value and paid off against the debt. I assume this could extend to Bitcoin. You cannot prevent the Bailiffs from entering your house, if you do they will call the police who will try and force their way in. And you have to pay the Bailiffs a fee too which is automatically added onto the debt. They can also come back as many times as they want. This might seem bad but it isn't as bad as other parts of the world like South Korea where the debt collector can literally just show up at your door and break your legs if you don't pay up.
I'd say it may be possible to hide your money with Bitcoin. If you don't give up the password, there isn't a whole lot they can do about it. Though I strongly advise against doing this as it's almost certainly illegal, though I am not an expert on law or anything.
I'd say it may be possible to hide your money with Bitcoin. If you don't give up the password, there isn't a whole lot they can do about it. Though I strongly advise against doing this as it's almost certainly illegal, though I am not an expert on law or anything.
April 08, 2015, 07:34:48 PM
Irrelevant. The idea of Bitcoin is not to evade collection agencies, the idea is to avoid banks, financial institutions, or other now-obsolete 3rd party middle men, who have been charging us ridiculous fees for shitty service, without adding of created any actual value.
My student loan has been bought and sold by so many third parties, you can bet somebody's gonna shell out for a 4th party collection agency by this point.
April 08, 2015, 07:17:29 PM
Irrelevant. The idea of Bitcoin is not to evade collection agencies, the idea is to avoid banks, financial institutions, or other now-obsolete 3rd party middle men, who have been charging us ridiculous fees for shitty service, without adding of created any actual value.
Your post is offtopic. Bitcoin doesn't require financial institutions, but doesn't exclude them either.
OP: I suggest you find a way to settle this - trying to hide it may end up being more expensive and will definitely do more damage to your credit score.
April 08, 2015, 07:10:09 PM
Irrelevant. The idea of Bitcoin is not to evade collection agencies, the idea is to avoid banks, financial institutions, or other now-obsolete 3rd party middle men, who have been charging us ridiculous fees for shitty service, without adding of created any actual value.
April 08, 2015, 07:07:38 PM
Where do you live in Nigeria or something ? The US debt is trillions of dollars over the GDP, it's impossible to pay back. Debt collections and student loans companies are just floating as long as they can, and it's pretty rare to have anything other then 15% of your pay deducted, and even that is under worst case scenarios if you are actively avoiding even the slightest contact or payments of your debts.
No, I live in Europe. How exactly is the U.S. government debt related to this thread? Collections agencies usually sue people if they don't pay (at least if the amount is significant - I guess OP would try to hide it if it wasn't)
April 08, 2015, 06:55:10 PM
sell everything you own / borrow as much money as you possibly can , empty your fiat currency account(s) , convert all your available currency into bitcoin through anonymous means (in person cash for bitcoin) , mix it thoroughly and put it on a flash drive , then declare bankruptcy or expatriate from the country , and then convert bitcoins back into fiat currency through anonymous means ... btw what i am suggesting is *highly* illegal and would constitute committing bank/credit fraud ... but it would fix your money woes ... so ... depending on just how desperate your situation is ... might be worth it ...
I like this, but my problem isn't that serious. I know somebody who owes $140k in student loans and somehow it doesn't upset them at all; they've been racking up & evading for over 20 years. Oh, and they have no intention of paying it back.
okay so here's your problem: As soon as a judgement is made to garnish your wages, it will then become a liability of your employer, NOT you, to repay the money. It doesn't matter if you have your check paid out in BTC or not, they will still work with your employer to deduct (usually around 20%) of your paycheck to meet legal garnishment obligations.
Good to know... You're right, he probably wouldn't want to take on the extra hassle or responsibility.
I thought even a collection agency has to sue you in a court of law and obtain a judgement against you before they could actually take anything from you.
You are correct.
Thanks everyone else for the tips.
April 08, 2015, 06:45:17 PM
I believe there was an article about people hiding their money in btc when going through divorces. Sounds like you could "hide" yours too if you really wanted to
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