HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 417.

RoadStress

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 30, 2013, 06:13:44 AM

Quote from: Puppet on November 30, 2013, 04:53:05 AM

BTW, why are you only counting 5 vendors? There is HF, KnC, CT, BFL, Bitmine, ActMiner, Black Arrow, AsicMiner, and probably Bitfury, Avalon. Thats 10; and i may be forgetting some or not knowing about them.

The only vendors who actually have 28nm 3rd gen chips finished are HashFast and KnC.

The rest are either vaporware or obsolete ( Cheesy

and both in the case of ActM Cheesy

).

I never saw chips from HashFast so i think it's safe to say they are vaporware too. Stop the bullshit. We only saw a picture of HF CEO holding a silver bag in his hands.

Edit: And HashFast isn't 3rd gen lol. It's 0 gen!

Flying Hellfish

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on November 29, 2013, 05:42:17 PM

Quote from: dhenson on November 29, 2013, 04:49:34 PM

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on November 29, 2013, 04:28:26 PM

So much for BTC in BTC out.

Fuck me, pre-ordering is worse odds than the fucking horse track, what a mugs game.

(j) REFUNDS. Any refunds due to Buyer will be made in United States Dollars, and for the purposes of calculating refunds, amounts paid in Bitcoin or other virtual currencies will be deemed paid in United States Dollars at the exchange rate given by Hashfast to its customers on the order date. Refunds for partial order cancelations or returns will be adjusted for any discounts previously given to Buyer for volume purchases.

Can't even spell cancellations correctly.

https://hashfast.com/checkout/terms-of-sale/

This legally only applies to those that purchased after the TOS was changed. Those of us that ordered batch 1 are entitled to BTC refund. If not, we will be spending some time in front of a judge.

Legally they can't refuse refunds before they ship a product, but they seem to doing just fine not allowing refunds, hell BFL has been flaunting it for months. If BFL has taught me one thing over the past 13+ months it's that what is legal and what is done are two very different things. Most if not all of the current ASIC manufacture's have taken one or more pages from the BFL scheme book and after witnessing the retarded success of BFL why wouldn't they do whatever the fuck they want.

Wasn't it John from HF that mentioned the lack of lawsuits against BFL, I guess we can see the mind set somewhat from a statement like that. Apologies if it wasn't him/HF admittedly I didn't look for the quote just going from memory.

I hope this is true. I'd much prefer to not lose my entire investment. Batch 1 orders probably won't ROI in USD unless BTC rises by 100x right now.

The FTC mail order rule has been discussed over and over in many a BFL thread. Not sure why people can't seem to understand simple, old consumer protection laws. When you buy a fucking product the company can not hold your money for ransom, if you change your mind for any reason prior to a product physically being shipped to you, you have the right to cancel it no matter what their retarded ToS says. Now as I mentioned what your rights are and what the company does are not always the same. If they refuse your only option is to force them with the legal system (ie. retaining personal legal counsel for advice and or action or going to the FTC, State AG's etc)

Putting something in your ToS that is contrary to federal regulations will not alleviate the company from complying with those federal regulations. A companies ToS does not override federal regulations LDO.

When You Must Cancel an Order

You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:
•the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
•the customer does not respond to your first notice of a definite revised shipment date of 30 days or less and you have not shipped the merchandise or received the customer’s consent to a further delay by the definite revised shipment date;
•the customer does not respond to your notice of a definite revised shipment date of more than 30 days (or your notice that you are unable to provide a definite revised shipment date) and you have not shipped the merchandise within 30 days of the original shipment date;
•the customer consents to a definite delay and you have not shipped or obtained the customer’s consent to any additional delay by the shipment time the customer consented to;
•you have not shipped or provided the required delay or renewed option notices on time; or
•you determine that you will never be able to ship the merchandise.

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: Puppet on November 30, 2013, 04:53:05 AM

BTW, why are you only counting 5 vendors? There is HF, KnC, CT, BFL, Bitmine, ActMiner, Black Arrow, AsicMiner, and probably Bitfury, Avalon. Thats 10; and i may be forgetting some or not knowing about them.

The only vendors who actually have 28nm 3rd gen chips finished are HashFast and KnC.

The rest are either vaporware or obsolete ( Cheesy

and both in the case of ActM Cheesy

).

cedivad

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Activity: 1176

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Today should be the day of the PBCs, are they delayed as well or they will come up on the marketing blog?

About the difficulty increases, i consider a 70%/month (avg) until March probable, to then slow down as the most important logistic curve we have ever cared about. KNC has yet to deliver it's 2-3PH and will within the month. And as puppet pointed out, those projection are at least optimist.

Puppet

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I would suspect most of these vendors are only going to be producing around 1-2Ph/s a month of chips.

Why would you assume that? Thats less than a single 25 wafer batch. Surely the fabs are not that constrained, they do 100s of thousands of wafer starts per month.
As for the rest of the production, while I hesitate to use them as benchmark, Josh claimed they expect to be able to easily produce over 1000 Monarchs per day, thats >10PH per month. And have you seen HF's contract builder?

The reason we are only seeing this kind of low volume today is that we have only a single vendor shipping meaningful quantities. One that grossly underestimated demand and/or doesnt have the capacity (yet) to produce more. And thats understandable, wafer production has to be ordered and planned a long time ahead, and they didnt expect the current price explosion. Its possible all the other vendors made the same mistake, although they ordered later and would have had a better view of the market, but either way, its not going to take them all a full year to ramp production to catch up with demand.

BTW, why are you only counting 5 vendors? There is HF, KnC, CT, BFL, Bitmine, ActMiner, Black Arrow, AsicMiner, and probably Bitfury, Avalon. Thats 10; and i may be forgetting some or not knowing about them.

minternj

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Happy 1 month since original delivery date anniversary. Also happy difficulty jump day. Sadly, many more milestones to come. So um , hows that substrate coming?

gjpminingco

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Co-Owner Of DCMCo-Op Mining Farm at 3.5 th/s

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: pmorici on November 30, 2013, 01:35:41 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cedivad on November 29, 2013, 08:52:17 PM

In other words you are saying that those miners won't roi even in USD regardless of the 10x value increase of the BTC. I stopped doing my projection out of despair, but maybe i should start again after this news for me.

Am I missing something?

New Network Hash Rate = 5.2
Old Network Hash Rate = 4.2

Only 1Ph/s was added over the last 2 weeks. If 1Ph/s is added every 2 weeks and Hashfast delivers on Jan 31 we'll be at a network hash rate of around 9Ph/s. At these rates a unit will generate 0.16BTC per day. It will generate around 11.5BTC in 3 months. Assuming it takes another 3 months after the initial delivery to get the MPP; We will be looking at having a network hash rate of around 17Ph/s in April 31 when they're delivered. As long as they can start mining right away, It will be around 40BTC generated in the next 12 months totaling 51.5BTC which is right around what a lot of people paid(though, I paid 61BTC). If they deliver in december they will all definitely pay for themselves in BTC over the next 12 months.

I think the flaw in the btc calculations stems from people using a monthly doubling of hash rate. That sort of growth is not going to be possible with asics (there will be no sharp curve as with gpus). It takes time to produce them all. In order to calculate hash rate growth you need to know how many chips each manufacturer is producing per month. Those figures will be flat/static as they can't really increase their order over what is already scheduled at the foundry. It's not going to continue growing at these 100% per month rates any longer unless multiple asic suppliers all ship at once.

I will say, I do not appreciate the obvious lies as mentioned in previous posts from Hashfast. For an October delivery date they would have needed the PCBs done long before then. They knew going into it that they would never meet the October deadline. For them to save their honor in my eyes they would need to deliver all 2THs in the form of 1 double baby jet and 1 sierra in december or january. It would be possible to make a decent BTC profit if they were to do this and I would be willing to let it slide. 2TH delivered on or before Jan 9 would make roughly 66.53BTC over the next 4 months which will hit the break even of the btc value for almost everyone, myself included. Anything from there on would be profit.

Can you be a little more specific about what math you are using to arrive at this conclusion? I feel like you are assuming the difficulty increases will level out to the point of being negligible. I don't think that is a reasonable assumption. Why can fabs produce enough GPU's to sustain a 20-30% increase in hash rate per window but not be able to produce enough ASICS to do the same?

The difficulty increases will level out unless more chips are generated than the month before. Like lets take an example and say that a vendor has a schedule setup for 2Ph/s worth of chips every 2 months foro the next 1-2 years. They can't change that easily, they might be able to get an extra run here or there if they're lucky, but the schedule exists so the foundry always stays active. The chances that they will be able to produce more than they were scheduled for (and these schedules are 12 months + in advance) are negligible.

The reason there was a huge spike when gpu mining occured is that anyone could order 50 video cards off newegg, or from their local walmart or wherever and have them online and mining in days or HOURS. The video cards were already there, available, and just needed to be shipped / installed.

I would suspect most of these vendors are only going to be producing around 1-2Ph/s a month of chips. If there are 5 vendors producing chips, expect 5-10Ph/s a month added. Currently there are 4 that represent 2Ph/s a month of growth (avalon, knc, bfl and bitfury). As a result of this you can get 100% growth periods, but only for very short spans. If the network hash rate is 10Ph/s and these manuf bring 10Ph/s online in a month it will be 100% growth rate. But, The next month when they bring another 10Ph/s online it will only be a 50% growth rate, the third month, 25%, and so on down into single digit percentages.

Thank You Senseless For Showing True Thought instead of Wildly jumping to conclusions and wild accusations about things that are totaly unknown unless you work for Hashfast and have access to Records and Invoices and receipts

Finally someone is using their brain for once in this thread

pmorici

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Activity: 479

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cedivad on November 29, 2013, 08:52:17 PM

In other words you are saying that those miners won't roi even in USD regardless of the 10x value increase of the BTC. I stopped doing my projection out of despair, but maybe i should start again after this news for me.

Am I missing something?

New Network Hash Rate = 5.2
Old Network Hash Rate = 4.2

Only 1Ph/s was added over the last 2 weeks. If 1Ph/s is added every 2 weeks and Hashfast delivers on Jan 31 we'll be at a network hash rate of around 9Ph/s. At these rates a unit will generate 0.16BTC per day. It will generate around 11.5BTC in 3 months. Assuming it takes another 3 months after the initial delivery to get the MPP; We will be looking at having a network hash rate of around 17Ph/s in April 31 when they're delivered. As long as they can start mining right away, It will be around 40BTC generated in the next 12 months totaling 51.5BTC which is right around what a lot of people paid(though, I paid 61BTC). If they deliver in december they will all definitely pay for themselves in BTC over the next 12 months.

I think the flaw in the btc calculations stems from people using a monthly doubling of hash rate. That sort of growth is not going to be possible with asics (there will be no sharp curve as with gpus). It takes time to produce them all. In order to calculate hash rate growth you need to know how many chips each manufacturer is producing per month. Those figures will be flat/static as they can't really increase their order over what is already scheduled at the foundry. It's not going to continue growing at these 100% per month rates any longer unless multiple asic suppliers all ship at once.

I will say, I do not appreciate the obvious lies as mentioned in previous posts from Hashfast. For an October delivery date they would have needed the PCBs done long before then. They knew going into it that they would never meet the October deadline. For them to save their honor in my eyes they would need to deliver all 2THs in the form of 1 double baby jet and 1 sierra in december or january. It would be possible to make a decent BTC profit if they were to do this and I would be willing to let it slide. 2TH delivered on or before Jan 9 would make roughly 66.53BTC over the next 4 months which will hit the break even of the btc value for almost everyone, myself included. Anything from there on would be profit.

Can you be a little more specific about what math you are using to arrive at this conclusion? I feel like you are assuming the difficulty increases will level out to the point of being negligible. I don't think that is a reasonable assumption. Why can fabs produce enough GPU's to sustain a 20-30% increase in hash rate per window but not be able to produce enough ASICS to do the same?

Hoofprint

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Dont forget to add the b2 serrria's unless there's a delay i haven't been told they will start hashing shortly after B1 baby jets.

amer

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Quote from: ?? on ??

By the middle of December, their 400 gh units should earn about 1/10th (.10-ish) of a Bitcoin a day. I really hope they do not deliver my Babyjet by December 31th though. I have my refund request all ready to go to get my first batch bitcoins back.

Your math is broken. 0.1 BTC a day @ 400GH = difficulty of 2B = 14.6PH/s. We are at 5PH/s and there is 1 difficulty adjustment between now and mid-December. It's early, but it looks like the next one will be less than +20% again, not +286% (the highest ever was +46%)

Witness

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cedivad on November 29, 2013, 08:52:17 PM

In other words you are saying that those miners won't roi even in USD regardless of the 10x value increase of the BTC. I stopped doing my projection out of despair, but maybe i should start again after this news for me.

Am I missing something?

New Network Hash Rate = 5.2
Old Network Hash Rate = 4.2

Only 1Ph/s was added over the last 2 weeks. If 1Ph/s is added every 2 weeks and Hashfast delivers on Jan 31 we'll be at a network hash rate of around 9Ph/s. At these rates a unit will generate 0.16BTC per day. It will generate around 11.5BTC in 3 months. Assuming it takes another 3 months after the initial delivery to get the MPP; We will be looking at having a network hash rate of around 17Ph/s in April 31 when they're delivered. As long as they can start mining right away, It will be around 40BTC generated in the next 12 months totaling 51.5BTC which is right around what a lot of people paid(though, I paid 61BTC). If they deliver in december they will all definitely pay for themselves in BTC over the next 12 months.

I think the flaw in the btc calculations stems from people using a monthly doubling of hash rate. That sort of growth is not going to be possible with asics (there will be no sharp curve as with gpus). It takes time to produce them all. In order to calculate hash rate growth you need to know how many chips each manufacturer is producing per month. Those figures will be flat/static as they can't really increase their order over what is already scheduled at the foundry. It's not going to continue growing at these 100% per month rates any longer unless multiple asic suppliers all ship at once.

I will say, I do not appreciate the obvious lies as mentioned in previous posts from Hashfast. For an October delivery date they would have needed the PCBs done long before then. They knew going into it that they would never meet the October deadline. For them to save their honor in my eyes they would need to deliver all 2THs in the form of 1 double baby jet and 1 sierra in december or january. It would be possible to make a decent BTC profit if they were to do this and I would be willing to let it slide. 2TH delivered on or before Jan 9 would make roughly 66.53BTC over the next 4 months which will hit the break even of the btc value for almost everyone, myself included. Anything from there on would be profit.

+1 honestly that would be nice, then I would praise hashfast. If the price went the other way, i can almost guarantee all of us would have got our bitcoins back and the tos would not have changed. Double standards I don't like it

cedivad

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In other words you are saying that those miners won't roi even in USD regardless of the 10x value increase of the BTC. I stopped doing my projection out of despair, but maybe i should start again after this news for me.

DPoS

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

HasfFast has the nicest customers.. this thread is still under 200 pages and none of their office windows have been smashed yet

I wonder if they really sold that many units after all... saying they are on batch 4 or whatever is like making a fake line in front of an empty new club just to get people thinking this is a hot new place to be

I love how they are 'keeping their head to the grindstone, working their tails off' making bitcoin promo video... money in, no money out

Flying Hellfish

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Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: dhenson on November 29, 2013, 04:49:34 PM

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on November 29, 2013, 04:28:26 PM

So much for BTC in BTC out.

Fuck me, pre-ordering is worse odds than the fucking horse track, what a mugs game.

(j) REFUNDS. Any refunds due to Buyer will be made in United States Dollars, and for the purposes of calculating refunds, amounts paid in Bitcoin or other virtual currencies will be deemed paid in United States Dollars at the exchange rate given by Hashfast to its customers on the order date. Refunds for partial order cancelations or returns will be adjusted for any discounts previously given to Buyer for volume purchases.

Can't even spell cancellations correctly.

https://hashfast.com/checkout/terms-of-sale/

This legally only applies to those that purchased after the TOS was changed. Those of us that ordered batch 1 are entitled to BTC refund. If not, we will be spending some time in front of a judge.

Legally they can't refuse refunds before they ship a product, but they seem to doing just fine not allowing refunds, hell BFL has been flaunting it for months. If BFL has taught me one thing over the past 13+ months it's that what is legal and what is done are two very different things. Most if not all of the current ASIC manufacture's have taken one or more pages from the BFL scheme book and after witnessing the retarded success of BFL why wouldn't they do whatever the fuck they want.

Wasn't it John from HF that mentioned the lack of lawsuits against BFL, I guess we can see the mind set somewhat from a statement like that. Apologies if it wasn't him/HF admittedly I didn't look for the quote just going from memory.

ryepdx

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Quote from: dhenson on November 29, 2013, 04:49:34 PM

This legally only applies to those that purchased after the TOS was changed. Those of us that ordered batch 1 are entitled to BTC refund. If not, we will be spending some time in front of a judge.

Yeah, I second this. If they think they can change the TOS unilaterally after the fact and expect it to apply retroactively, then they've got another thing coming.

dhenson

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Quote from: Flying Hellfish on November 29, 2013, 04:28:26 PM

So much for BTC in BTC out.

Fuck me, pre-ordering is worse odds than the fucking horse track, what a mugs game.

(j) REFUNDS. Any refunds due to Buyer will be made in United States Dollars, and for the purposes of calculating refunds, amounts paid in Bitcoin or other virtual currencies will be deemed paid in United States Dollars at the exchange rate given by Hashfast to its customers on the order date. Refunds for partial order cancelations or returns will be adjusted for any discounts previously given to Buyer for volume purchases.

Can't even spell cancellations correctly.

https://hashfast.com/checkout/terms-of-sale/

This legally only applies to those that purchased after the TOS was changed. Those of us that ordered batch 1 are entitled to BTC refund. If not, we will be spending some time in front of a judge.

Gyrsur

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Bitcoin Legal Tender Countries: 2 of 206

Quote from: cedivad on November 29, 2013, 04:33:33 PM

Quote from: Gyrsur on November 29, 2013, 04:12:53 PM

Quote from: cedivad on November 29, 2013, 04:09:10 PM

Quote from: Gyrsur on November 29, 2013, 02:07:28 PM

I mean if the MMP did start on October 30th someone have to count the amount we made back since then and still counting.

That's incredible, isn't it? We read what we want to read.

did you get my question? who is the person which count the amount of extra chip bundles (up to 4) which I will get in January 2014?

got it?

Sorry, long day.

no problem!

cedivad

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Quote from: Gyrsur on November 29, 2013, 04:12:53 PM

Quote from: cedivad on November 29, 2013, 04:09:10 PM

Quote from: Gyrsur on November 29, 2013, 02:07:28 PM

I mean if the MMP did start on October 30th someone have to count the amount we made back since then and still counting.

That's incredible, isn't it? We read what we want to read.

did you get my question? who is the person which count the amount of extra chip bundles (up to 4) which I will get in January 2014?

got it?

Sorry, long day.

Flying Hellfish

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1757

Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

So much for BTC in BTC out.

Fuck me, pre-ordering is worse odds than the fucking horse track, what a mugs game.

(j) REFUNDS. Any refunds due to Buyer will be made in United States Dollars, and for the purposes of calculating refunds, amounts paid in Bitcoin or other virtual currencies will be deemed paid in United States Dollars at the exchange rate given by Hashfast to its customers on the order date. Refunds for partial order cancelations or returns will be adjusted for any discounts previously given to Buyer for volume purchases.

Can't even spell cancellations correctly.

https://hashfast.com/checkout/terms-of-sale/

Gyrsur

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Activity: 2856

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Bitcoin Legal Tender Countries: 2 of 206

Quote from: cedivad on November 29, 2013, 04:09:10 PM

Quote from: Gyrsur on November 29, 2013, 02:07:28 PM

I mean if the MMP did start on October 30th someone have to count the amount we made back since then and still counting.

That's incredible, isn't it? We read what we want to read.

did you get my question? who is the person which count the amount of extra chip bundles (up to 4) which I will get in January 2014?

got it?

Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 417. (Read 880816 times)