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Topic: HASHKING'S PPT ACCOUNTS IMPORTANT NOTICE (PLEASE DON'T DISREGARD) - page 2. (Read 7179 times)

legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1003
For example, if the price of Bitcoin drops to $1 in four months and he pays people back the number of Bitcoins owed, does that count as him paying back?

300 BTC owed is 300 BTC owed.... No matter what the fiat exchange rate...

I thought people wanted BitCoin to succeed as an alternative to fiat not just as another exchange-rate gambling mechanism... I am sadly mistaken...

I think you missed his point.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
For example, if the price of Bitcoin drops to $1 in four months and he pays people back the number of Bitcoins owed, does that count as him paying back?

300 BTC owed is 300 BTC owed.... No matter what the fiat exchange rate...

I thought people wanted BitCoin to succeed as an alternative to fiat not just as another exchange-rate gambling mechanism... I am sadly mistaken...
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
I've noticed your firm assertions that pirate is a ponzi on almost every forum thread.
I am 99.99% convinced Pirate was operating a Ponzi scheme. That is, at least most of the time, interest payments on older deposits were made from newer deposits rather than any actual investment proceeds.

Quote
How sure are you that he won't pay out principal + interest due through closing announcement?
I guess that depends on how generously you want to construe the terms. For example, if the price of Bitcoin drops to $1 in four months and he pays people back the number of Bitcoins owed, does that count as him paying back? If he claims that he has to have copies of driver's licenses to pay back money and the vast majority of his investors are unwilling to do that, and he pays back everyone who submits the precise documentation he demands, does that count as him paying back? If people agree to a 10% payback because that's all it seems like they are likely to get, does that count?

By fair and reasonable criteria, I would put the odds of him paying back at around 1%. The criteria are roughly that his investors don't suffer losses that are significant relative to the amount they invested. The odds that everyone who paid Pirate bitcoins will get at least those bitcoins they deposited back are very, very low.
newbie
Activity: 33
Merit: 0
What if Pirate has one-sidedly decided to NOT pay any PPTs

Then under the pooling agreement you are entitled to nothing so no-one is defrauded if Hashking gives out some ones info

To be clear, I have no BTC in Hashkin's passthrough, but I do have BTC with BitcoinMax and we have the same problem there
If he's not going to pay out anything, why give him info? And there's no way Hashking can know this.

Hey Joel,

I've noticed your firm assertions that pirate is a ponzi on almost every forum thread.  How sure are you that he won't pay out principal + interest due through closing announcement?
donator
Activity: 1419
Merit: 1015
Quote
If I didn't submit it and Pirate does pay then there is a good chance that no funds will be sent to me.

If you did submit it, and the "don't ask, don't tell" people Pirate was working with were law enforcement, a bunch of your users who also used Silk Road are going to prison.

If you did submit it, and Pirate later gets sued, you and all your userbase can be tried as accomplices.

There's a lot of bad things that can happen here, and not a lot of good.
member
Activity: 114
Merit: 12
Hay Hash,

It seems like i missed the deadline. I have since sent the details but i'm Curious,

1) Why didnt you just query your DB for all of the info ?
2) If there was some technical reason you couldnt do 1) why not a mass email to peoples email addresses to let them know you needed this info. We dont all frequent the forum every day.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
I sent the information last night at around 11pm CDT.  None of the account holders stated that they didn't want the information sent and I did receive a bunch of emails with updated information.  If I didn't submit it and Pirate does pay then there is a good chance that no funds will be sent to me.  Pirate can't really do anything without having people's personal information.  I will leave that up to each account holder to decide that if Pirate contacts them requesting it.   
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1003
Ron Gross
Sorry about double posting this here but I need to have this done by Friday 8/31/12/.

If you have a pending PPT account with me please take a screenshot of your account and send me an email at [email protected].  I also need your forum name and withdrawal address you entered in order to verify its your account.  This must come from the email that is registered on the website
What happens if people do not do this? What are you going to do with the information?


hashking, I find your lack of communication disturbing.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
What if Pirate has one-sidedly decided to NOT pay any PPTs

Then under the pooling agreement you are entitled to nothing so no-one is defrauded if Hashking gives out some ones info

To be clear, I have no BTC in Hashkin's passthrough, but I do have BTC with BitcoinMax and we have the same problem there
If he's not going to pay out anything, why give him info? And there's no way Hashking can know this.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
BitMinter
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
Information sent.  Thanks everyone.
sr. member
Activity: 386
Merit: 250
The deadline for submitting the PPT information requested will be Thursday 10pm CDT.  Thanks.
Umm, what happens if you miss the deadline?

Yes, like by 20 minutes?HuhHuhHuhHuh?
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Pirate has no business knowing the information of your depositors.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
daytrader/superhero
Lawyer up, dude.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
how about the people who choose to, do, and those who don't want to, don't
That doesn't work. It breaches the pooling agreement. Say you turn over your details and I don't. That enables Pirate to make a private payment to you, defrauding me out of the share of that payment that I was entitled to under the pooling agreement. (Remember, the original agreement was that payments on all of the debt would be made according to the rules of the pool.) If a pass through operator facilitates this, he's breached the agreement.

Perhaps operators can find some way to ensure this doesn't happen. But until they do, I don't think they can pass anyone's information on to Pirate.


What if Pirate has one-sidedly decided to NOT pay any PPTs

Then under the pooling agreement you are entitled to nothing so no-one is defrauded if Hashking gives out some ones info

To be clear, I have no BTC in Hashkin's passthrough, but I do have BTC with BitcoinMax and we have the same problem there
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
The deadline for submitting the PPT information requested will be Thursday 10pm CDT.  Thanks.
Umm, what happens if you miss the deadline?
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
The deadline for submitting the PPT information requested will be Thursday 10pm CDT.  Thanks.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
Don't do it, hashking! It may be a trap. As PPT operator, you might have a legal claim against pirate's assets, but your passthrough holders certainly don't. If pirate is declaring bankruptcy, you may be throwing away a chance to get a share of what's left.

That's far from clear. If they're intended third party beneficiaries, then they have a claim against Pirate. This makes legal sense because the arrangement between the PPT operator and his investors doesn't give the PPT operator any incentive to pursue Pirate (because he just has to pass on any money he collects, and it's not even clear if he can deduct things like legal fees). This is a case where equity would require the holders to be able to enforce their indirect debt. (See my other post with the example about the guy who buys a car for his daughter.)
donator
Activity: 826
Merit: 1060
Don't do it, hashking! It may be a trap. As PPT operator, you might have a legal claim against pirate's assets, but your passthrough holders certainly don't. If pirate is declaring bankruptcy, you may be throwing away a chance to get a share of what's left.

It may serve the interests of your asset-holders better for you to submit one overall claim. If some of your asset-holders prefer to submit individual claims, you should submit a consolidated claim for the remaining funds.
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