Haunebu and 3kpk3 - merit system abuse - page 2.

Frankolala

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 519

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 01:34:46 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on August 15, 2023, 01:23:25 AM

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 01:16:35 AM

...Merit system abuse!

Is it a scam or not? Say it straight and we'll all know what to do whit it

It's not.

Quote from: theymos on October 21, 2018, 10:28:55 AM

If a DT member tags you for something stupid involving merit (ie. probably anything less than selling merit), then they're not going to be a DT member for much longer.

If theymos says this, don't expect much from the DTs in this regard.

Congratulations! You just justified every merit scam! Grin

Don't feel bad that nobody is nailing the two accounts just like what you thought will happen because I don't think that it is a scam or some sort of offense that needs immediate attention.

Sending merits from one account of the other by the same user is called merit abuse and not scam because the user hasn't taken anyone's funds to render a service and didn't or has involved in any scam activities. You should know what scam is,this is a big word and is like you want to tarnish the user reputation. The DT members will look up to it,if the action is worth a neutral tag or not.

holydarkness

legendary

Activity: 2506

Merit: 1398

Yes, I'm an asshole

Quote from: yahoo62278 on August 17, 2023, 03:36:14 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62710067

It's already established that they are alts, that's not illegal on this forum. It's only illegal if they are joining the same sig campaign at the same time or abusing bounty campaigns.

I'm quoting the original post being referred here in full [below], just for the sake of added context. If I may add, aside from what yahoo said, one that's also not allowed is to add one's main account into alt's their trust list [on this case, I'll assume Haunebu is the main and 3kpk3 is the alt], though it's ok to add your alt to your main's trust list.

Quote from: LoyceV on October 10, 2019, 11:37:17 AM

[...]

It's okay to include your alt-account on your own Trust list. This means you trust the feedback you left from that account. [...]
Don't include your main account from your alt account(s). This could influence DT1-voting, and although that's not part of this guide, it's bad

[...]

Quote from: ?? on ??

Username: Haunebu

yahoo62278

legendary

Activity: 3556

Merit: 4191

Quote from: ?? on ??

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62710067

It's already established that they are alts, that's not illegal on this forum. It's only illegal if they are joining the same sig campaign at the same time or abusing bounty campaigns.

yahoo62278

legendary

Activity: 3556

Merit: 4191

You need to pay attention to how long ago the abuse happened. I read 2018 which is pretty close to the time merit became a thing here. People were still learning what is and isn't acceptable.

DT isn't condoning scamming or abuse of the system. We are going by what the admins have set the guidelines as basically. You can always ~ the 2 accounts in your trust list and ignore them, but seems like you will not be happy until they are punisihed(which isn't going to happen). Just let it go man.

holydarkness

legendary

Activity: 2506

Merit: 1398

Yes, I'm an asshole

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 02:08:38 AM

Quote from: holydarkness on August 15, 2023, 02:03:32 AM

I'll quote this one as it summarizes the latest exchanges of communication. Has someone suffered a damage or financial lost caused by the user you mentioned? Or, does the user you mentioned poses a risk of causing other user financial damage?

Do you think fraud is only about money? I have provided evidence of cheating. Are you defending someone who deliberately wanted to cheat the community?

They're [arguably] abusing merit, I'll take your word for that and won't bother to crosscheck, but do they cheat the community that warrant a negative feedback? You requested us, the DTs, why doesn't we leave them a negative feedback. And you've been repetitively asked, "what scam?"

Perhaps I should invite you to reacquaint yourself with what trust feedback said and dictate,

Do the users you mentioned poses a high-risk to the community if they trade with them? If you can provide arguments backed with evidences that they poses such threat --thus will potentially scam the community-- I'll probably consider about leaving tag. Otherwise, it's a case of merit abuse, not a scam.

noorman0

hero member

Activity: 1764

Merit: 694

[Nope]No hype delivers more than hope

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 02:59:28 AM

I like this approach, is there an option to remove negative reviews from a few years ago?

Convince the tagger via PM to remove it or open a thread about it to see how many users support deletion, usually it heavily influences the tagger's judgment.

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 02:59:28 AM

-snip-
why are you defending this scammer Haunebu and 3kpk3?

Not wanting to flag does not mean defending, DT Members will no longer aggressively flagging in merit abuse unless it is related to other issues that incur financial losses. Again, the evidence you bring with you is not enough to call them scammers by community standards. In the real life, not all abuse is part of scam.

nutildah

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 7892

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 02:59:28 AM

I like this approach, is there an option to remove negative reviews from a few years ago?

Certainly. If the account that left the negative is still around, you just need to ask them to remove the negative. Perhaps present a thoughtful explanation to them why you think it should be removed.

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 02:59:28 AM

Actually, why are you defending this scammer Haunebu and 3kpk3?

What's the scam here?

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 02:59:28 AM

Will you defend all cheaters in this same way?

Obviously not.

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 02:59:28 AM

Is it really that you don't want to admit I'm right because I have a red tag associated with 1xbit? Wouldn't it be nice to prove me right, huh?

Now think about what it would look like if I did it with a green account?! Would you be on other side?

But you're not right. I didn't even bother to check your references because they have nothing to do with the issue you presented. So no, I would not be on the other side if you had a 'green account'.

Pipshunter

sr. member

Activity: 700

Merit: 252

Quote from: nutildah on August 15, 2023, 02:54:58 AM

Meh. They haven't exchanged merits since 2018, almost 5 years ago. Only one of the accounts is in a signature campaign. In general its not really a good idea to tag users retroactively for this kind of thing, especially since it happened so long ago.
...

I like this approach, is there an option to remove negative reviews from a few years ago?

Actually, why are you defending this scammer Haunebu and 3kpk3?

Will you defend all cheaters in this same way?

Is it really that you don't want to admit I'm right because I have a red tag associated with 1xbit? Wouldn't it be nice to prove me right, huh?

Now think about what it would look like if I did it with a green account?! Would you be on other side?

nutildah

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 7892

Meh. They haven't exchanged merits since 2018, almost 5 years ago. Only one of the accounts is in a signature campaign. In general its not really a good idea to tag users retroactively for this kind of thing, especially since it happened so long ago.

There's a couple of (what I strongly suspect are) farms of sig campaigners that frequently exchange merit with themselves. If/when I do bust them, the merit exchange will be supplementary evidence and not the primary reason for the tag.

For example, a long while back there was an account farm that exchanged just enough merits to rank themselves up enough to qualify for DT voting... They were blacklisted from the trust system by theymos and received tags from various DT for attempting to manipulate the trust system.

Quote from: theymos on April 06, 2019, 06:56:58 PM

They're all now excluded from the DT selection process, so if the goal was to manipulate DT, someone blew ~580 sMerit in order to ultimately fail doing so.

Additionally, theymos offered this guideline about the issuance of red trust for minor 'crimes':

Quote from: theymos on May 04, 2019, 01:07:09 AM

- Forgiveness: Often people make fairly small mistakes, but then they seemingly get red-trusted for life. This isn't really fair, and it discourages participation due to paranoia: if you think that you have a 1% chance of running afoul of some unwritten rule and getting red-trusted for life, you might just avoid the marketplace altogether. Red trust should mostly be based on an evaluation of what the person is likely to do in the future moreso than a punishment/mark-of-shame.

Pipshunter

sr. member

Activity: 700

Merit: 252

Quote from: Despairo on August 15, 2023, 02:22:55 AM

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 01:34:46 AM

Congratulations! You just justified every merit scam! Grin

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 02:08:38 AM

Do you think fraud is only about money? I have provided evidence of cheating. Are you defending someone who deliberately wanted to cheat the community?

There's no such merit scam. I wouldn't say merit exchange with alt accounts is cheat the community, but it's unethical. Since @theymos already pointed out leaving negative feedback because of merit exchange isn't appropriate, then we need to deal with it.

What I don't understand is why no one give neutral feedback to both @Haunebu and @3kpk3 accounts? this can be a reference whenever a campaign manager want to accept them to be in the campaign.

However I checked the feedback you leaved on their accounts, do you think you're correct by leaving negative feedback? I will tag your account with neutral feedback.

Quote from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=941667

Haunebu 2023-08-14 Reference Merit system abuser
3kpk3 2023-08-14 Reference Merit system abuser

If you give one person permission to do bad things, you either don't realize what you're judging or you don't know what you're doing.

Despairo

hero member

Activity: 966

Merit: 801

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 01:34:46 AM

Congratulations! You just justified every merit scam! Grin

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 02:08:38 AM

Do you think fraud is only about money? I have provided evidence of cheating. Are you defending someone who deliberately wanted to cheat the community?

There's no such merit scam. I wouldn't say merit exchange with alt accounts is cheat the community, but it's unethical. Since @theymos already pointed out leaving negative feedback because of merit exchange isn't appropriate, then we need to deal with it.

What I don't understand is why no one give neutral feedback to both @Haunebu and @3kpk3 accounts? this can be a reference whenever a campaign manager want to accept them to be in the campaign.

However I checked the feedback you leaved on their accounts, do you think you're correct by leaving negative feedback? I will tag your account with neutral feedback.

Quote from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=941667

Haunebu 2023-08-14 Reference Merit system abuser
3kpk3 2023-08-14 Reference Merit system abuser

Pipshunter

sr. member

Activity: 700

Merit: 252

Quote from: holydarkness on August 15, 2023, 02:03:32 AM

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 01:34:46 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on August 15, 2023, 01:23:25 AM

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 01:16:35 AM

...Merit system abuse!

Is it a scam or not? Say it straight and we'll all know what to do whit it

It's not.

Quote from: theymos on October 21, 2018, 10:28:55 AM

If a DT member tags you for something stupid involving merit (ie. probably anything less than selling merit), then they're not going to be a DT member for much longer.

If theymos says this, don't expect much from the DTs in this regard.

Congratulations! You just justified every merit scam! Grin

I'll quote this one as it summarizes the latest exchanges of communication. Has someone suffered a damage or financial lost caused by the user you mentioned? Or, does the user you mentioned poses a risk of causing other user financial damage?

Do you think fraud is only about money? I have provided evidence of cheating. Are you defending someone who deliberately wanted to cheat the community?

holydarkness

legendary

Activity: 2506

Merit: 1398

Yes, I'm an asshole

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 01:34:46 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on August 15, 2023, 01:23:25 AM

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 01:16:35 AM

...Merit system abuse!

Is it a scam or not? Say it straight and we'll all know what to do whit it

It's not.

Quote from: theymos on October 21, 2018, 10:28:55 AM

If a DT member tags you for something stupid involving merit (ie. probably anything less than selling merit), then they're not going to be a DT member for much longer.

If theymos says this, don't expect much from the DTs in this regard.

Congratulations! You just justified every merit scam! Grin

I'll quote this one as it summarizes the latest exchanges of communication. Has someone suffered a damage or financial lost caused by the user you mentioned? Or, does the user you mentioned poses a risk of causing other user financial damage?

Pipshunter

sr. member

Activity: 700

Merit: 252

Quote from: Poker Player on August 15, 2023, 01:23:25 AM

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 01:16:35 AM

...Merit system abuse!

Is it a scam or not? Say it straight and we'll all know what to do whit it

It's not.

Quote from: theymos on October 21, 2018, 10:28:55 AM

If a DT member tags you for something stupid involving merit (ie. probably anything less than selling merit), then they're not going to be a DT member for much longer.

If theymos says this, don't expect much from the DTs in this regard.

Congratulations! You just justified every merit scam! Grin

Poker Player

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1888

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 15, 2023, 01:16:35 AM

...Merit system abuse!

Is it a scam or not? Say it straight and we'll all know what to do whit it

It's not.

Quote from: theymos on October 21, 2018, 10:28:55 AM

If a DT member tags you for something stupid involving merit (ie. probably anything less than selling merit), then they're not going to be a DT member for much longer.

If theymos says this, don't expect much from the DTs in this regard.

Pipshunter

sr. member

Activity: 700

Merit: 252

Quote from: Poker Player on August 15, 2023, 01:12:10 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Is the merit abuse scam something that DT members no longer pays attention to?

If it comes down to that alone, I don't think you're going to get more than a neutral tag. Another thing is that apart from the merit abuse it is seen that they are alts that have joined the same campaign or that have plagiarized, things like that, as it has happened in other occasions.

Theymos himself said that he was not going to give importance in merit issues to anything but selling merits.

Nobody talk here about plagiarism, campaign cheating or other things. Case is clear - Merit system abuse!

Is it a scam or not? Say it straight and we'll all know what to do whit it

Poker Player

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1888

Quote from: ?? on ??

Is the merit abuse scam something that DT members no longer pays attention to?

If it comes down to that alone, I don't think you're going to get more than a neutral tag. Another thing is that apart from the merit abuse it is seen that they are alts that have joined the same campaign or that have plagiarized, things like that, as it has happened in other occasions.

Theymos himself said that he was not going to give importance in merit issues to anything but selling merits.

Pipshunter

sr. member

Activity: 700

Merit: 252

Quote from: holydarkness on August 14, 2023, 11:41:19 PM

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 14, 2023, 03:38:49 PM

[...]

As I wrote earlier, this is information that has been found by other users. I don't know how these two accounts managed to avoid the consequences of this scam. I'm guessing this is just an oversight.

I don't understand this part. Which scam is this? The merit abuse? Or did you find another evidences [that you're yet to present here on this thread] that they scammed someone?

At this point, I am presenting evidence that a fraud has occurred. Yes, merit abuse!
edited..

Is the merit abuse scam something that DT members no longer pays attention to?

holydarkness

legendary

Activity: 2506

Merit: 1398

Yes, I'm an asshole

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 14, 2023, 03:38:49 PM

[...]

As I wrote earlier, this is information that has been found by other users. I don't know how these two accounts managed to avoid the consequences of this scam. I'm guessing this is just an oversight.

I don't understand this part. Which scam is this? The merit abuse? Or did you find another evidences [that you're yet to present here on this thread] that they scammed someone?

Pipshunter

sr. member

Activity: 700

Merit: 252

Quote from: yahoo62278 on August 14, 2023, 05:51:55 PM

Quote from: Pipshunter on August 14, 2023, 03:38:49 PM

Quote from: Cantsay on August 14, 2023, 03:23:46 PM

I just have a few questions to ask you.

The proof you included in your post are there recent? Or the same with the ones that were used back then? If “Yes”, why did you choose to open a thread against him now in the reputation board? Because I just went through both of your post history and I found out that you had an issue because he called the casino (1xbit.com) you were promoting a scam which it really is.

I can see that this was reported in 2021 and at this time merit abusers were already being punished by neg tags but why was this case left? There might be a reason to it probably due to the time the merit exchange happened or something similar.

The fact that I drew attention to these two accounts is because they both behave in the same arrogant and aggressive manner.
I started a casual discussion about 1xBit and only from these two accounts I had been getting insulted. It seemed strange to me, so I used the Bitcointalk search engine and in couple of seconds I found this information.

As I wrote earlier, this is information that has been found by other users. I don't know how these two accounts managed to avoid the consequences of this scam. I'm guessing this is just an oversight.

Unless they're involved in selling merits, then i'm really not interested. It looks like they did send merits to each other(23 each) which some members may end up tagging them for. I can't see how long ago it was(more then 120 days for sure though).

I do think just because you got your feelings hurt for someone telling the truth about a scam company you wanted to represent doesn't mean you should go on a personal vendetta and try ruining them. Don't advertise for a scam company and you wouldn't have been tagged.

Hi yahoo, nice that you look in to it Wink

Let's start with this:

Quote

Unless they're involved in selling merits, then i'm really not interested.

He didn't have to sell anything, he just cheated by trading merits between his own accounts. It is confirmed, where you have doubts?

Edit: Even if my feelings were hurt, is it mean that his cheating have point to get no consequences?

Topic: Haunebu and 3kpk3 - merit system abuse - page 2. (Read 777 times)