Have some people used casinos to hide the origin of funds? - page 2.

justdimin

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on July 06, 2024, 05:38:34 PM

It is true that nowadays, there are several restrictions imposed by the casino due to AML/KYC laws, but in the beginning, that didn't exist (online-casinos).

There have certainly been cases where people have used casinos (and even exchanges) to hide/shuffle the origin of funds, 'cause when you deposit crypto on a platform, your link to the platform's address ends and when you go to withdraw, you withdraw funds from different origin (from other customers). Unless the platform keeps deposit/withdrawal logs of all user operations and provides them to authorities when requested.

This can be done even by people who have no intention of doing so. But that's the nature of cryptocurrencies, so like it or not, it's difficult for authorities to track the funds (even if the person isn't doing anything outside of their country's tax laws).

This is exactly why some of the casinos started to ask KYC from people. Not all of them asks it, but there are some out there who does it, and the reason for why they are asking for it is because they saw a lot of people who hide illegal funds. You might be as simple as a drug dealer, just use a casino as a mixer basically, and they do not want to be a part of it.

This is of course still possible on casinos that do not ask for your KYC, but if the money comes from an illegal source they are aware, they will notify the authorities and freeze your account and give your money to the law enforcement instead, so whoever does it still takes a risk. So answer is, yes some people have used it to hide the origin of their funds.

Orpichukwu

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Quote from: Dave1 on July 11, 2024, 03:43:10 AM

So this is big news as the criminals tries to hide it in a casino but I don't think that he can get away with it since Stake requires KYC and so they can go and trace it and maybe cooperate with the authorities to arrest this group.

Lesson here is that do not used casino to launder money.

Is KYC mandatory at stake? It's possible for one to play on stake and make some withdrawals until they reach a certain limit, or they may request it from you as the gambler.

I don't know how strict Stake's KYC is, but if it undergoes manual verification, I believe it's vulnerable to identity theft. With the current level of identity theft, I think anyone who wants to hide money can buy stolen ID information online and use it to pass KYC on any platform they want to use for money laundering."

Forsyth Jones

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Some companies have internal software developed on demand to research some data obtained by the buyer/client, I don't know if casinos have this.

Some searches and monitoring that these software do is to look for criminal records, previous addresses, debts, etc.

Of course, depending on the country, this personal information is easier or more difficult to obtain.

$weetne$$

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on July 06, 2024, 05:38:34 PM

It is true that nowadays, there are several restrictions imposed by the casino due to AML/KYC laws, but in the beginning, that didn't exist (online-casinos).
This can be done even by people who have no intention of doing so. But that's the nature of cryptocurrencies, so like it or not, it's difficult for authorities to track the funds (even if the person isn't doing anything outside of their country's tax laws).

It is possibly because cryptocurrency are anonymous and anybody can use a no KYC casino for money laundering and nobody will know unless they get caught and an investigation is done. Before casinos starting making KYC to be compulsory, there will be some people that were using it for money laundering and other illegal things. The implementation of KYC has reduced everything that got to do with money laundering activities. There could still be some little activities going on but it would not be very obvious as the people doing this will use all the tricks that they know to hid anytime that they are doing. There are some gamblers that are using casinos to avoid paying taxes because the government would not know the profits they have as they deposit and withdraw through cryptocurrency therefore their finances is not traceable. People will do anything not to pay taxes because they feel their money is not being used well.

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on July 10, 2024, 09:57:33 AM

casinos will end up being a bit more covered than mixers
people can use them as mixers but since they have a different "raison de etre" they can get less coverage
I wonder if there was ever a big operation regarding online casinos and money laundering

I think that now things are very different for casinos, previously I think that money laundering could have been done, but I'm talking about the year 207 to 2020, but since the mandatory KYC was implemented, it is not a business to do so, for anyone, at least those who handle a lot of money and large amounts, let's suppose the mafias, drug traffickers, they handle and launder their money with fiat money, they don't take risks, I know because I live in an area where they do things like that, and one already knows why sometimes they do it in public and no one dares to even look, because it is very dangerous, in fact the governments do the money laundering shamelessly and it is with fiat money, they don't use casinos.

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Real gamblers never try to launder money using casinos. Because they focus on both winning and losing in gambling. But those who are dishonest only use the casino platform and try to legitimize their illegal activities. There is some difference between a gambler and such a dishonest person. Gambling establishments try to keep a special eye on such clients. Because they also know that dishonest people can use their platform. However, some casino companies are known to support such activities. And as a result of their flexibility, some dishonest people are committing crimes like money laundering. I am sure there are many who gamble only to hide their money. However, as governments are aware, these types of crimes have reduced a lot.

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Quote from: Samlucky O on July 11, 2024, 09:52:33 AM

I never knew that someone can use casino to hide the origin of fund. Although if not for a bad intention of a case of stolen fund or hacked fund I don't see any reason why someone would want to go through that process why there are just simply ways to send fund and trade through P2P and cashout your bulks. But any way whatever has disadvantages also have advantage meaning it can be used to keep fund safe from hackers or people who might be tracing someones fund so with this process the destination will be cut short along the way. Thereby bridging the tace.

Yes, they can hid the origin of fund in many places including in casinos because other people will not knows what they do except casino. Casino will asks us to explain where the funds come from and that's why casino will asks their members to do KYC especially if casino finds something suspicious from their members.

There will be someone used casino or other business to hide the origin of the fund from the authorities. Those people use illegal ways to make money and they wants to hide that from the authorities so they will search for a way to makes their activity difficult to finds by the authorities. Those who hide the origin of funds will trying many ways to make sure their secret will be safe from the authorities so they use casinos to hide it. That will makes authorities difficult to track the origin of funds especially if casinos is not report the suspicious activity in their place.

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I never knew that someone can use casino to hide the origin of fund. Although if not for a bad intention of a case of stolen fund or hacked fund I don't see any reason why someone would want to go through that process why there are just simply ways to send fund and trade through P2P and cashout your bulks. But any way whatever has disadvantages also have advantage meaning it can be used to keep fund safe from hackers or people who might be tracing someones fund so with this process the destination will be cut short along the way. Thereby bridging the tace.

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If this surprises you , wait until you see what people are doing with Steam CS2 inventory! They have millions of $ in Cs2 skins with 0 hours of playing and that is clearly money laundering and other suspicious activities so for me it's kinda normal to see this kind of situations with casinos. However , casinos can lock up those funds anytime they want when instead in Cs2 inventory no one can do anything besides you + those rare skins are only going up on value so you kinda never lose the value of your original investment. Crazy right ? Grin

Dave1

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And if you are not aware of, https://x.com/theklineventure/status/1810068252900376999

It says that part of the stolen fund went to Stake:

Quote

You can find the Ethereum transactions with links in the comment below.

Part of the $1.7M ends up at http://Stake.com

@StakeEddie, BijanTehrani, Stake
urgent attention needed

So this is big news as the criminals tries to hide it in a casino but I don't think that he can get away with it since Stake requires KYC and so they can go and trace it and maybe cooperate with the authorities to arrest this group.

Lesson here is that do not used casino to launder money.

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Quote from: nimogsm on July 10, 2024, 09:17:10 AM

Quote from: vs2014 on July 08, 2024, 01:24:51 PM

It's not as fun as it used to be and now there are so many rules and regulations to follow that gambling in peace is not possible. As gambling is banned in my country so i want to gamble secretly. So kyc is a big barrier so it is better if there is no requirement to use kyc in crypto market. But in the past almost all gambling platforms were independent and you could gamble as much as you wanted without kyc hassles. Now many platforms make trouble when you win big money and give withdrawal.

this is why there is a market for fake documents and it is thriving (not a call to action) I often see in chats an offer to purchase a complete package of documents for an exchange or any other site where this is required. And this is risky and there are more disadvantages from this since the funds may be are blocked or the real owner of the documents will take his account back, so if registration is prohibited in some region, then you should not break the law.

Some people commit this kind of illegal activity because of government policies and restrictions which they find a burden to them. Fake documents are very easy to get now due to technology enhancement but even if we think that the government policies are not fair anymore, I don't think we have to break the law. That is not enough to reason out why we do this and I don't think being a responsible citizen would choose this way when knowing that the consequences of getting into jail are high. If we don't have the chance and if gambling is banned in our country, then we accept it rather than forcing ourselves and committing illegal actions as we know that this won't end up good.

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Quote from: Porfirii on July 10, 2024, 10:24:41 AM

I would like to link these two (three) posts because I find it interesting that 1) most money laundering goes through banks as iv4n said, so I imagine that criminals know how to do these things with traditional methods and they don't really need to innovate with new methods online or with crypto, and 2) as long as every time you deposit your coins in a centralised casino you are relying on a third party anyway, what's the deal in using them to hide the origin of funds? Perhaps some people use/used casinos that way, but it doesn't seem to be the most suitable method.

It's all about the amount of money... We can easily imagine someone laundering $100k sometimes, but how to launder millions of dollars every month? How to launder +$10 million? How to launder billions and trillions of dollars every year? And that's how much the cartels and strong criminal organizations earn:

The Transnational Organized Crime (TOC) group is the current grouping term for international criminal syndicates across the globe. And they "make" over $2.8 trillion annually. The world's total net worth is $510 trillion, which means crime owns 0.6% of the money in the world.

And this is information from 2017, now the numbers are probably higher...

That much money is not laundered in casinos and crypto, some of it certainly is, but it is a small part. Big money is laundered through various companies all over the world, banking havens... this is done by a team of accountants who falsify various documents to make the money look clean. Everyone makes money there, maybe the banks more than other parties. One thing is sure, without banks, there are no big deals...

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Quote from: Obari on July 08, 2024, 09:54:03 AM

I don’t want this to be some sort of argument but personally I have this feeling that, before the government intervention, some of these casinos were already aware of some of these criminal activities and I could remember a discussion some time ago with some guys in my neighborhood and one of them was proposing that some of these casinos are aware of the fact that their casinos were used to launder money but since there was nothing the government could do about it then, and maybe they could also have a bite from the money, they kept mute and looking into his points, there were some sort of truth in them.

But for the sake of doubt, let’s say they’re not aware, but yes that the casinos were used as a channel to launder money but I don’t think it’s that very easy this days.

Well, yeah, I think it could also be true that they definitely may be aware that such activities have been going on, but because they were not regulated, they don't care about the activities. On a second thought, I was also discussing with a friend the case of casinos being used for money laundering. My friend said that casinos cannot actually tell when laundered money is being deposited into their casino unless they are told by the anti-money laundering agency. It's those agencies that are in charge of monitoring every suspected case of money laundering. Just as you have said, it could be true that they may or may not be aware of it too.

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Pretty sure it is not so common as it used to be before Bitcoin and the cryptocurrency ecosystem was taken seriously by banks and hedge funds. Back in the day, when KYC did not apply as severely on exchanges as it does today. Still, today it is possible to hide to some degree the origins of one's money, but it is more difficult and it is not worth it, as it could be translated on our funds being frozen/seized and never returned to us. I would not even be surprised if someone who tried to mix their money using an exchange got stopped at some local airport and questioned about several things.
The tendency is clear against privacy and privacy enhanced project, that is why Binance was pushed towards delisting Monero, to decrease liquidity of the asset.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on July 06, 2024, 06:10:13 PM

-snip-

Or just use a mixer or conjoin for it. This is the best but I prefer conjoin which is not centralized like others.

Quote from: iv4n on July 09, 2024, 10:00:58 AM

Quote from: swogerino on July 09, 2024, 07:09:31 AM

-snip- So yes people still do it through casinos since they already did long ago like this story.

Nice story. I guess this shows that people who wish to launder money will find a way to do it, KYC & AML will not stop them. Maybe this can slow them down, but nowadays it's easy to bypass these rules... especially for people from the other side of the law.

Casinos have always been used for money laundering, but I don't think we should be fooled about this, after all, most money is laundered through various companies, phantom companies, and of course, it all goes through banks.

I would like to link these two (three) posts because I find it interesting that 1) most money laundering goes through banks as iv4n said, so I imagine that criminals know how to do these things with traditional methods and they don't really need to innovate with new methods online or with crypto, and 2) as long as every time you deposit your coins in a centralised casino you are relying on a third party anyway, what's the deal in using them to hide the origin of funds? Perhaps some people use/used casinos that way, but it doesn't seem to be the most suitable method.

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Quote from: iv4n on July 09, 2024, 10:00:58 AM

Quote from: swogerino on July 09, 2024, 07:09:31 AM

I don't know if you guys know the story of the CIA agent that had a difficult duty to find how one of the most notorious drug dealers hide their money.He stayed after him for so long and nothing so one day he got to him put the gun down on his head and said "you will be free to go if you tell me how you launder your money and if you don't you are going to jail".The drug dealer said Ok and told that he gave 10.000 dollars to ten persons sharing 100000 dollars working for him and these persons got to different casinos played 1000 dollars and the 9000 they got back with invoice.So yes people still do it through casinos since they already did long ago like this story.

Nice story. I guess this shows that people who wish to launder money will find a way to do it, KYC & AML will not stop them. Maybe this can slow them down, but nowadays it's easy to bypass these rules... especially for people from the other side of the law.

Casinos have always been used for money laundering, but I don't think we should be fooled about this, after all, most money is laundered through various companies, phantom companies, and of course, it all goes through banks.

casinos will end up being a bit more covered than mixers
people can use them as mixers but since they have a different "raison de etre" they can get less coverage
I wonder if there was ever a big operation regarding online casinos and money laundering

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Quote from: vs2014 on July 08, 2024, 01:24:51 PM

It's not as fun as it used to be and now there are so many rules and regulations to follow that gambling in peace is not possible. As gambling is banned in my country so i want to gamble secretly. So kyc is a big barrier so it is better if there is no requirement to use kyc in crypto market. But in the past almost all gambling platforms were independent and you could gamble as much as you wanted without kyc hassles. Now many platforms make trouble when you win big money and give withdrawal.

this is why there is a market for fake documents and it is thriving (not a call to action) I often see in chats an offer to purchase a complete package of documents for an exchange or any other site where this is required. And this is risky and there are more disadvantages from this since the funds may be are blocked or the real owner of the documents will take his account back, so if registration is prohibited in some region, then you should not break the law.

Antotena

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on July 06, 2024, 05:38:34 PM

There have certainly been cases where people have used casinos (and even exchanges) to hide/shuffle the origin of funds, 'cause when you deposit crypto on a platform, your link to the platform's address ends and when you go to withdraw, you withdraw funds from different origin (from other customers). Unless the platform keeps deposit/withdrawal logs of all user operations and provides them to authorities when requested.

This can be done even by people who have no intention of doing so. But that's the nature of cryptocurrencies, so like it or not, it's difficult for authorities to track the funds (even if the person isn't doing anything outside of their country's tax laws).

I'm not sure there is much casino left that are not KYC free and even with that, the ones that may not ask for KYC are not daft to allow you use their Casino to clean dirty money, they are not mixers that will want to associate with any taint Bitcoin because mixed balance of output will only jeopardize their remaining balance and it will definitely be investigated. For that, they will definitely ask you to gamble atleast a game before you make the withdrawal out successfully.

A sensible person wouldn't try this except if you have some kind of connection with the casino that you are known as a business associate in crime where they allow you play but the game wouldn't be fair, they favour you so that you can win and allowed to withdraw or you are stuck in there system. If you don't understand gambling or an expert, you will lose that money right before your eyes because you don't know the next outcome of the game you will be playing.

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Quote from: OgNasty on July 06, 2024, 06:43:00 PM

That seems like a terrible way to try and conceal where your funds came from. They’re specifically on the lookout and trying to stop stuff like this.

As he said, casinos and exchanges before are not strict enough than compared to now. What they were doing before was only a business and there is nothing that is personal involved. I think they also know these tactics before and they just let those people do their thing because it makes their service in demand and that means more income from them.

Quote from: OgNasty on July 06, 2024, 06:43:00 PM

However, this is a great way to get your account and funds locked on the site.

But if only they knew it and were scared of it, I don't think they would ever commit such an act. And besides, there are still crypto mixing sites that they can use to safely end the link of their coins.

Quote from: OgNasty on July 06, 2024, 06:43:00 PM

I’m sure plenty of those complaining about not being able to withdraw their funds are guilty of this…

That is for sure, right after the beginning of AML and KYC policies. There are still other reasons on why someone can have their funds locked by the casino or exchange and one of it is they might be doing some exploits.

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Quote from: swogerino on July 09, 2024, 07:09:31 AM

I don't know if you guys know the story of the CIA agent that had a difficult duty to find how one of the most notorious drug dealers hide their money.He stayed after him for so long and nothing so one day he got to him put the gun down on his head and said "you will be free to go if you tell me how you launder your money and if you don't you are going to jail".The drug dealer said Ok and told that he gave 10.000 dollars to ten persons sharing 100000 dollars working for him and these persons got to different casinos played 1000 dollars and the 9000 they got back with invoice.So yes people still do it through casinos since they already did long ago like this story.

Nice story. I guess this shows that people who wish to launder money will find a way to do it, KYC & AML will not stop them. Maybe this can slow them down, but nowadays it's easy to bypass these rules... especially for people from the other side of the law.

Casinos have always been used for money laundering, but I don't think we should be fooled about this, after all, most money is laundered through various companies, phantom companies, and of course, it all goes through banks.

Topic: Have some people used casinos to hide the origin of funds? - page 2. (Read 1027 times)