Have some people used casinos to hide the origin of funds? - page 4.

shivansps

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on July 06, 2024, 05:38:34 PM

It is true that nowadays, there are several restrictions imposed by the casino due to AML/KYC laws, but in the beginning, that didn't exist (online-casinos).

There have certainly been cases where people have used casinos (and even exchanges) to hide/shuffle the origin of funds, 'cause when you deposit crypto on a platform, your link to the platform's address ends and when you go to withdraw, you withdraw funds from different origin (from other customers). Unless the platform keeps deposit/withdrawal logs of all user operations and provides them to authorities when requested.

This can be done even by people who have no intention of doing so. But that's the nature of cryptocurrencies, so like it or not, it's difficult for authorities to track the funds (even if the person isn't doing anything outside of their country's tax laws).

Yes, this could indeed become a problem in the future. Personally, I do not hide cryptocurrency and there is no point in hiding. But there are probably people who can make their money legally through these schemes. I think that the law (regardless of which state) will constantly regulate these rules and try to close these holes. This is why every year it becomes more and more difficult to play online casinos and gambling.

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Quote from: hedgeh0g on July 08, 2024, 07:32:10 AM

I have no evidence, but I think that such casinos definitely exist, maybe they were even invented for this purpose from the very beginning. The Internet is full of stories in which not the best people do such things. I hope there are organizations that understand this and prevent these illegal actions, although at the same time I understand that this is not very easy to do. Also, the process may be hampered by the fact that one of the regulatory authorities may be corrupt. In short, I wanted this phenomenon not to happen at all, but in real life this happens. At least we should know the names of some of them so that we can stop playing there immediately.

Actually, it's not hard to launder funds in a casino if it's not coming from an online transaction. For online transactions, there's a trace, and an investigation can easily be done. However, criminals are smart too; they know how to not get caught with their illegal activities. Nowadays, not all casinos require KYC, so if you have $1 million that you want to launder, you can spread it across different casinos, maybe 50 to 100 casinos, and that wouldn't be noticed since it was just a small amount when spread at that numbers.

hedgeh0g

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I have no evidence, but I think that such casinos definitely exist, maybe they were even invented for this purpose from the very beginning. The Internet is full of stories in which not the best people do such things. I hope there are organizations that understand this and prevent these illegal actions, although at the same time I understand that this is not very easy to do. Also, the process may be hampered by the fact that one of the regulatory authorities may be corrupt. In short, I wanted this phenomenon not to happen at all, but in real life this happens. At least we should know the names of some of them so that we can stop playing there immediately.

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Quote from: DaNNy001 on July 08, 2024, 04:58:12 AM

Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on July 07, 2024, 01:17:41 PM

Quote from: piebeyb on July 07, 2024, 12:59:35 PM

nowadays is very strict so it is not that easy for people to launder money and remove traces of its origin.

Monday launderers are not only using casinos to clean their stolen money, there are other traditional means by which corruption is taking place and is being undetected by AML agencies. Even some centralized exchanges are being used, and some mobile money agent apps are being used to hide the real origin of the stolen money. It is very possible to hide the real origin of the money. Don't forget, we now have some web3 casinos that don't require customers to perform KYC. You can just connect your wallet, make some deposits, play one or two games, and withdraw your money back to a different wallet.

The thing is that there are certain things the government can't actually stop and one of them is means of money laundering, what they can do is just to actually regulate it to some extent but to entirely stop it that's a different case. Just like you said there are different ways in which these exercises can be carried out and one of them is through the web3 casino although not all but some do offer the features that can make this act possible.

Well, yes, I agree with you. Money laundering did not start today. Dating back to history, money laundering started in the 1970s, and since then, it has continued till today. If it were possible to stop it permanently, it would have been stopped, but definitely, there are a lot of corrupt people that will definitely be involved in those practices, and the AML agencies are there to catch those they can catch while some are still not being detected.

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And that's indeed the very reason why casinos are already required to strictly implement KYC/AML verification. Without which, casinos would probably continue to serve the purpose of money launderers who are gambling merely for the sake of giving their dirty money a legitimate source.

That's exactly the story of brick-and-mortar casinos here in my country. Even the infamous Bangladesh bank cyber heist was linked to casinos because it's an easy way for dirty money to come out clean.

DaNNy001

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Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on July 07, 2024, 01:17:41 PM

Quote from: piebeyb on July 07, 2024, 12:59:35 PM

nowadays is very strict so it is not that easy for people to launder money and remove traces of its origin.

Monday launderers are not only using casinos to clean their stolen money, there are other traditional means by which corruption is taking place and is being undetected by AML agencies. Even some centralized exchanges are being used, and some mobile money agent apps are being used to hide the real origin of the stolen money. It is very possible to hide the real origin of the money. Don't forget, we now have some web3 casinos that don't require customers to perform KYC. You can just connect your wallet, make some deposits, play one or two games, and withdraw your money back to a different wallet.

The thing is that there are certain things the government can't actually stop and one of them is means of money laundering, what they can do is just to actually regulate it to some extent but to entirely stop it that's a different case. Just like you said there are different ways in which these exercises can be carried out and one of them is through the web3 casino although not all but some do offer the features that can make this act possible.

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on July 07, 2024, 03:46:01 PM

Isn't that contradictory? Bitcoin and everyone who follows its decentralization model was created to transfer resources to anyone in the world without satisfying anyone, but governments require companies that accept crypto deposits to KYC their customers. Many of these customers are well-intentioned people, they do not commit any crime with their funds, but they are obliged to provide their data to prove that they are not doing anything wrong.

While there really are people who use fiat money to hide their heinous crimes (murders, robberies, etc.), the government should go after these people and not the common person, that is, subject everyone to the same pot.

You are right, but what you say should happen in an ideal world, where there are no crimes. However, wherever there is a way to deceive people, scammers will not miss their chance. The same thing happens with Bitcoin; it would seem that its idea is quite reasonable, but we cannot speak for those who do not think it is so. Since the beginning of time, there has been greed and deception, and the government cannot turn a blind eye to the crimes that are committed with the participation of Bitcoin; hence, we see so many restrictions, although everyone who truly supports Bitcoin has only good intentions.

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Quote from: _act_ on July 07, 2024, 03:03:42 AM

Quote from: bakasabo on July 07, 2024, 02:32:23 AM

Does such rule and wish to mix funds with casino funds via deposit/withdrawal really work? User deposit to a specific address all the time, he get withdrawal from a bunch of accounts only. Casinos account address are only one more address in chain. All the addresses are transparent anyway. And it is not hard to generate one address for every user, and bind it on him only. I doubt that anything is mixing properly with deposit/withdrawal through casinos.

Do you know that a coin can be traced to a mixer? It is also possible that a transaction can be traced to a conjoin. Coins can be traced to an exchange and also can be traced to a gambling site. This is because the blockchain is transparent. If you mix a coin, it means you block its trace to something. If you are using a casino that does not require KYC, transactions there can not be linked to your real identity and it is a kind of mixing by blocking the trace to something. But what if it is a centralized casino seized the money or the casino forced the person to do KYC. Also that casinos has rules. It can be that a gamble should gamble and win 2x before they can withdraw. Gambling site with no KYC can be used for mixing but not a good idea at all. It is a bad idea because the money can be lost.

I understand that, but the crypto is linked to specific addresses anyway. Maybe this is only my experience, maybe the casino I gamble is specific, but whenever I make a deposit, the casino give same BTC address all the time, same address for BSC tokens for example. And withdrawals come from the same addresses. If I use such casino for money laundering several times, pattern of same addresses in turnover appears. With a pinch of extra knowledge, investigation (from authorities), such fund hiding scheme gets cracked easily.

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Isn't that contradictory? Bitcoin and everyone who follows its decentralization model was created to transfer resources to anyone in the world without satisfying anyone, but governments require companies that accept crypto deposits to KYC their customers. Many of these customers are well-intentioned people, they do not commit any crime with their funds, but they are obliged to provide their data to prove that they are not doing anything wrong.

While there really are people who use fiat money to hide their heinous crimes (murders, robberies, etc.), the government should go after these people and not the common person, that is, subject everyone to the same pot.

Findingnemo

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on July 06, 2024, 05:38:34 PM

It is true that nowadays, there are several restrictions imposed by the casino due to AML/KYC laws, but in the beginning, that didn't exist (online-casinos).

There have certainly been cases where people have used casinos (and even exchanges) to hide/shuffle the origin of funds, 'cause when you deposit crypto on a platform, your link to the platform's address ends and when you go to withdraw, you withdraw funds from different origin (from other customers). Unless the platform keeps deposit/withdrawal logs of all user operations and provides them to authorities when requested.

This can be done even by people who have no intention of doing so. But that's the nature of cryptocurrencies, so like it or not, it's difficult for authorities to track the funds (even if the person isn't doing anything outside of their country's tax laws).

I just want to say the exact opposite, it's so easy to track things since they are recorded on blockchain which is public ledger where no one can alter anything. So we general people may not have the access to those logs but I am pretty sure every casino and exchange keeps it permanently for these kind of legal stuffs. I would not pick cryptos if zi want to launder the money cause with fiat it's easier, untraceable.

Sunderland

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Laundering large amounts of crypto at once through online crypto casinos is definitely not possible nowadays, unless there is a certain deal with those casinos.
Deposits above $10k will definitely be monitored and many casinos or 3rd party payment providers have used AML software, not to mention increasingly strict KYC policies and wagering requirements before able to withdraw.
Before 2015, to laundering large amount of crypto would have been done through exchanges, not casinos. It is too risky to deposit and store large amounts of crypto in casinos which is can be considered to be illegal because most of them do not have a license at that time

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Quote from: piebeyb on July 07, 2024, 12:59:35 PM

nowadays is very strict so it is not that easy for people to launder money and remove traces of its origin.

Monday launderers are not only using casinos to clean their stolen money, there are other traditional means by which corruption is taking place and is being undetected by AML agencies. Even some centralized exchanges are being used, and some mobile money agent apps are being used to hide the real origin of the stolen money. It is very possible to hide the real origin of the money. Don't forget, we now have some web3 casinos that don't require customers to perform KYC. You can just connect your wallet, make some deposits, play one or two games, and withdraw your money back to a different wallet.

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Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on July 07, 2024, 11:25:41 AM

Well, it is only a stolen fund, and a huge one at that, that people can try to reshuffle in order to hide the real origin of that money. I have not had any stolen money that I would want to hide its origin, so I have not done what you are asking, but definitely there are a lot of people who are doing this frequently without being caught. Despite the regulations on exchanges and casinos, not all laundering cases can be caught by the AML agencies.

Not a few people use gambling, in fact there are many cases of corruption in my country where they try to turn their money around in gambling to eliminate traces of the origin of their funds, even a lot of money laundering is also done in gambling, you are right that no matter how strict gambling is, not everyone can be caught, there are definitely those who can make money safely in gambling, but I think it is also full of risks in gambling and I don't know how they can make money in gambling whereas gambling nowadays is very strict so it is not that easy for people to launder money and remove traces of its origin. his funds, but bad people will definitely do everything possible to cover up the origin of their funds, not only in gambling, but also in other places.

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on July 06, 2024, 05:38:34 PM

This can be done even by people who have no intention of doing so. But that's the nature of cryptocurrencies, so like it or not, it's difficult for authorities to track the funds (even if the person isn't doing anything outside of their country's tax laws).

But with the way the regulation of crypto related investment is going both exchange and casinos can be requested to keep track of customers traces especially with centralized exchange and casinos. Sure cryptocurrency provides more and reliable security to people's funds and gives freedom to hodl and privacy but a country that regulates her crypto market can easily make traces to a customer through exchanges under their jurisdiction.

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on July 06, 2024, 05:38:34 PM

It is true that nowadays, there are several restrictions imposed by the casino due to AML/KYC laws, but in the beginning, that didn't exist (online-casinos).

There have certainly been cases where people have used casinos (and even exchanges) to hide/shuffle the origin of funds, 'cause when you deposit crypto on a platform, your link to the platform's address ends and when you go to withdraw, you withdraw funds from different origin (from other customers). Unless the platform keeps deposit/withdrawal logs of all user operations and provides them to authorities when requested.

This can be done even by people who have no intention of doing so. But that's the nature of cryptocurrencies, so like it or not, it's difficult for authorities to track the funds (even if the person isn't doing anything outside of their country's tax laws).

Yeah I mean that is one way that folks will do to, they will try to “clean” the money by making huge bets or one good way to do it is betting on both sides hefty wagers say on sports betting so that you have a sure win and also are guaranteed getting your money back and thus cleaning the money. But most folks trying to do this will just go directly to a chip mixer.

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on July 06, 2024, 05:38:34 PM

It is true that nowadays, there are several restrictions imposed by the casino due to AML/KYC laws, but in the beginning, that didn't exist (online-casinos).

There have certainly been cases where people have used casinos (and even exchanges) to hide/shuffle the origin of funds, 'cause when you deposit crypto on a platform, your link to the platform's address ends and when you go to withdraw, you withdraw funds from different origin (from other customers). Unless the platform keeps deposit/withdrawal logs of all user operations and provides them to authorities when requested.

I can't even imagine anyone doing something like that... It's stupid and risky to have alot of dirty coins converted into chips, just to convert them back and demand a withdrawal... It's Impossible to withdraw exactly what you deposited; so you'd have to wager atleast on 5 tickets I guess..
Just like you said, the governments are in affiliation with the casinos, checking through every account to avoid all this laundering loopholes.. so, you'd definitely be caught.

Quote

This can be done even by people who have no intention of doing so. But that's the nature of cryptocurrencies, so like it or not, it's difficult for authorities to track the funds (even if the person isn't doing anything outside of their country's tax laws).

It's actually possible, but how fast can you get away with it without attracting the casino's scrutiny team? How? It's certain that the AML regulations cannot be overlooked, otherwise, the casino will be in trouble with the government.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Well, it is only a stolen fund, and a huge one at that, that people can try to reshuffle in order to hide the real origin of that money. I have not had any stolen money that I would want to hide its origin, so I have not done what you are asking, but definitely there are a lot of people who are doing this frequently without being caught. Despite the regulations on exchanges and casinos, not all laundering cases can be caught by the AML agencies.

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It was before that this use to happen and because casinos are aware of it, they have made everything about registering on the casino very strict and also they can lock an account of someone that is not use to deposit huge funds when such happens. It will be the worst thing for anyone to do now because is just like keeping your stolen funds with the police.

Mixers are used more for money laundering and if you don't want traces of your transactions coinjoin is the best option.

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on July 06, 2024, 05:38:34 PM

It is true that nowadays, there are several restrictions imposed by the casino due to AML/KYC laws, but in the beginning, that didn't exist (online-casinos).

There have certainly been cases where people have used casinos (and even exchanges) to hide/shuffle the origin of funds, 'cause when you deposit crypto on a platform, your link to the platform's address ends and when you go to withdraw, you withdraw funds from different origin (from other customers). Unless the platform keeps deposit/withdrawal logs of all user operations and provides them to authorities when requested.

This can be done even by people who have no intention of doing so. But that's the nature of cryptocurrencies, so like it or not, it's difficult for authorities to track the funds (even if the person isn't doing anything outside of their country's tax laws).

If you care so much about your privacy, then you should consider sticking to a reputable crypto casino that does not require KYC, where you do not have to bother about your activities and transactions being made public. But with the ways lots of casinos are being regulated this days, it's kind of difficult finding a reputable casino that does not require KYC from it's customers.

Hiding the origin of funds from the casino operators seems more like a money laundering attempt to me and this is a criminal offense. Why would anyone be so concerned about his transactions at the casino being linked to him? I do not know if there are other useful reasons for hiding the origin of funds which I'll be glad to know of if there is any.

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Of course, money laundering has been existing for decades and gambling is one way they used to hide their money from authority and taxation. In such way they could avoid big taxes and fines with their money. They will just make it seem to be an amount they won from gambling activities and basically, taxes in such way is smaller than announcing where did they get that money and not to mention thourough investigation on their end which would cause them a bigger trouble.

Quote from: coin-investor on July 07, 2024, 08:27:30 AM

Casinos are fully aware of this, so they have it on their terms, and they make it a point to implement KYC on questionable accounts. However, casinos are the riskiest way to hide the origins since you can lose all your funds.
But why use casinos when there are mixers you can use to hide the origins of funds? The purpose of mixers is to anonymize transactions, the one that you're looking to hide the origin of your funds.

If it is with web 3 then indeed this would work however, mixers aren't present with web 2 casino platforms and it just happened that not all people still are embracing this innovation. At the end of the day, restrictions preventing money laundering are created with of course instances such thing actually happened.

Topic: Have some people used casinos to hide the origin of funds? - page 4. (Read 1059 times)