[Havelock] Bitcoin Difficulty Derivative (BDD) - page 84.

Bobsurplus

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale

Quote from: twentyseventy on January 30, 2014, 12:19:29 PM

Quote from: mainline on January 30, 2014, 12:11:37 PM

Oh well. At least you still have your extensive secret pronXXXsite holdings.
How much did Hevlock charge you in fees? I'm considering floating a few of my firms.

P.S: What's happening with dat, BTW? I noticed it's gone from your sig?

I expect this to take a few weeks to really reach critical trading mass. Not expecting massive sales from the jump, as it takes time for people to notice and, later, understand the security.

Regarding my signature, I just have the most recent articles from the site listed there. Plus, XXXProfit is closed to new investors and ABI will be finalizing the last few shares at the end of the month.

Love the Mintspare review!

+10 BTC!

mainline

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

oic.
*Lol, there's still 37 hours left to get in on the stealth pronz. Deeply discounted. BUY BUY BUY!!1!

twentyseventy

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

Quote from: mainline on January 30, 2014, 12:11:37 PM

Oh well. At least you still have your extensive secret pronXXXsite holdings.
How much did Hevlock charge you in fees? I'm considering floating a few of my firms.

P.S: What's happening with dat, BTW? I noticed it's gone from your sig?

I expect this to take a few weeks to really reach critical trading mass. Not expecting massive sales from the jump, as it takes time for people to notice and, later, understand the security.

Regarding my signature, I just have the most recent articles from the site listed there. Plus, XXXProfit is closed to new investors and ABI will be finalizing the last few shares at the end of the month.

mainline

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Oh well. At least you still have your extensive secret pronXXXsite holdings.
How much did Hevlock charge you in fees? I'm considering floating a few of my firms.

P.S: What's happening with dat, BTW? I noticed it's gone from your sig?

twentyseventy

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

Bitcoin Difficulty Derivative is officially open and trading on Havelock Investments!

Please do remember that the Issuer sells/issues only B.EXCH Shares. I have placed an ask of 10,000 Shares at 210 Days of Dividends + 1%. In the case that this ask is exhausted (unlikely for a while), a new ask will be placed at the same price. There is NO limit of how many B.EXCH shares can be issued or purchased.

~~Once you have purchased B.EXCH shares, send them to the Issuer at [email protected] to receive your BDD Pair (one B.SELL and one B.MINE) so that you can sell one or both of them on the open market.~~

The Market will set the price for B.MINE and B.SELL, so I expect the next few days to be interesting as people decide what they think both are worth at this time.

Thanks for reading and enjoy the speculation!

EDIT: EXCH holders now only need wait for the exchange, they do not need to send them to me.

twentyseventy

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

Just got confirmation from Havelock that the announcement will go out tomorrow, 1/29, to all Havelock members. Trading will begin on Thursday 1/30 at 12PM Eastern Time-

twentyseventy

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

Quote from: jimmothy on January 28, 2014, 05:43:13 AM

Eta?

Just finalizing the last of it with Havelock, so it should be before the end of the week. There's no need to do too much run-up to it, luckily. Thanks-

jimmothy

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Eta?

twentyseventy

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

Quote from: FloatesMcgoates on January 27, 2014, 02:05:23 AM

Under Deprived's system, the purchase price of one DMS.Purchase was set at a percentage above NAV/U so that every purchase resulted in the NAV/U going up, making the asset as a whole more attractive. What I am reading so far suggests that this will not be the case with your asset, as you only set the +1% in order to cover trade fees and not contribute to NAV. Is this correct?

The purchase price of EXCH is set at NAV/U + 1%; that 1% splits into .4% for the exchange fee and .6% to the fund's capital. I believe that DMS included 2% of the 5% total fee (which the remaining 3% went to Deprived for the management fee).

DMS included that fee to compensate holders of the SELLING / PURCHASE shares, as their interest in the invested funds was being diluted by the additional capital.

For BDD, there is no investment of capital, as I found the counter-party risk to be too high these days with the many recent high-profile defaults and disappearances.

However, BDD does still add additional capital to the fund to the tune of about 30% of what DMS added (.6% additional to fund vs 2% to fund for DMS).

Hope this helps!

FloatesMcgoates

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Under Deprived's system, the purchase price of one DMS.Purchase was set at a percentage above NAV/U so that every purchase resulted in the NAV/U going up, making the asset as a whole more attractive. What I am reading so far suggests that this will not be the case with your asset, as you only set the +1% in order to cover trade fees and not contribute to NAV. Is this correct?

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

Quote from: twentyseventy on January 24, 2014, 11:07:38 PM

I wouldn't have chosen Havelock as the exchange. Cryptostocks, on the other hand, allows fund listing with little or no ID or identity verification.

Havelock has allowed people to split with the proceeds on numerous past occasions. There's really no difference between the two.

Bitdust

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: twentyseventy on January 24, 2014, 11:07:38 PM

Thanks, Damiano - I'm very hopeful about the security's prospects.

Nice to see you, as always, MPOE. If I was going to try and do a runner with the funds, I wouldn't have chosen Havelock as the exchange. Cryptostocks, on the other hand, allows fund listing with little or no ID or identity verification.

Havelock, however, has my Government Issued ID, home address, and employer information on file. I'd prefer to keep everything above-board and a make a bit of BTC instead of trying to do a 'smash and grab' and run with the funds.

You sent your IRL ID (ur from the states, right?) to a Panamanian shell co so you can issue unregistered securities? When something like this would have been more than enough?

D00d, there's so much you need to learn...

*I hope Havelock's chief compliance officer doesn't use ur ID to go drinking. The Panamanians might charge you with contributing to the delinquency of a minor and take you to Panama court. Ever been to Panama prison? Serious shit, I'm not even kidding.

twentyseventy

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

Thanks, Damiano - I'm very hopeful about the security's prospects.

Nice to see you, as always, MPOE. If I was going to try and do a runner with the funds, I wouldn't have chosen Havelock as the exchange. Cryptostocks, on the other hand, allows fund listing with little or no ID or identity verification.

Havelock, however, has my Government Issued ID, home address, and employer information on file. I'd prefer to keep everything above-board and a make a bit of BTC instead of trying to do a 'smash and grab' and run with the funds.

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

If you weren't so obviously mentally incompetent and if you hadn't a history of shilling for the scammiest shit one might even take the spurious bs here seriously. As it is...lol.

Awaiting the unavoidable implosion, followed by the usual storm of three-month-old idiots who as per usual think they know better decrying their bitcent losses.

damiano

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1000

103 days, 21 hours and 10 minutes.

Finally something worth while will be listed on havelock Wink

Rannasha

hero member

Activity: 728

Merit: 500

Quote from: twentyseventy on January 24, 2014, 10:35:15 AM

Quote from: Rannasha on January 24, 2014, 09:21:16 AM

Quote from: twentyseventy on January 24, 2014, 09:11:25 AM

Quote from: Rannasha on January 24, 2014, 08:04:59 AM

First of all, I like DMS-style securities, so yay!

Secondly, I have 2 questions:
1) Are you aware that there is a critical error in the calculations in your difficulty-increase example?
2) How will you handle exchanges of the EXCH asset for MINE & SELL? Manual (if so, how frequently) or automatic?

Glad to hear it! I've missed DMS, so I'm excited to bring a form of it back to the market.

1) I've went cross-eyed writing this over the weekend; do you mind pointing it out for me? If it's the 'Difficulty is 1,000,000' part, I'm realizing that I left that in and should not have.
2) EXCH will be manual, but I am on internet from around 9-5 Eastern on weekdays and am normally Internet connected outside of those hours as well. I'll be checking throughout the day to see what comes in, but transfers will be most often done between 7AM to 11PM/12AM Eastern Time. All transfers will be processed within 24 hours.

Regarding 1): The error is in the calculation of the fund reserve after a difficulty change (and consequently the SELL dividend) in both the written example and the figures. I'll leave the rest as an exercise for the reader, since this correctness of this calculation is rather crucial for the entire asset.

Quote

Both Havelock and I have agreed that a funds-lock on the Issuer account (how the set up all Issuer accounts) would be the best for the speculators. I have thought of the possibility your scenario; I know that I won't run with the funds, but no one else can know that as a certainty. Allowing fund buy-backs is a crucial part of the speculation process, so I didn't want to get rid of that part. I'm open to any other options that speculators might propose for increased capital security.

There is no way to guarantee that the issuer doesn't cheat investors in some way unless Havelock operates the fund (in which case, investors have to trust Havelock, which they have to anyway since it's on their platform). So trust in you is still required. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean that measures like funds held in escrow are not very effective.

eltopo was in the same situation when he launched his ET.DIFF securities on BTCT, where he wanted to provide a similar level of security through a locked account, but it turned out it was not possible.

After much weeping and gnashing of teeth, I've found the error - in my quest to simplify the explanation for newcomers, I've oversimplified and botched my Difficulty increase dividend calculation. Of course, if Difficulty increases by 20%, then the dividend declines by 16.666%, not 20% (because 1/1.2 = .8333 instead of 1.2/1 = .2).

This is something that I would have caught when I generated my dividend issuance spreadsheet (which, in hindsight, I should have already done).

So, thank you for pointing that out, I really appreciate it - it wasn't a mistake that should have been made but I am indeed fallible. It would have been caught, but it would have possibly made for some miscalculation on others' parts or confusion at the first dividend. I'm revising the contract now on Havelock and on the contract in this thread.

twentyseventy

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Rannasha on January 24, 2014, 09:21:16 AM

Quote from: twentyseventy on January 24, 2014, 09:11:25 AM

Quote from: Rannasha on January 24, 2014, 08:04:59 AM

First of all, I like DMS-style securities, so yay!

Secondly, I have 2 questions:
1) Are you aware that there is a critical error in the calculations in your difficulty-increase example?
2) How will you handle exchanges of the EXCH asset for MINE & SELL? Manual (if so, how frequently) or automatic?

Glad to hear it! I've missed DMS, so I'm excited to bring a form of it back to the market.

1) I've went cross-eyed writing this over the weekend; do you mind pointing it out for me? If it's the 'Difficulty is 1,000,000' part, I'm realizing that I left that in and should not have.
2) EXCH will be manual, but I am on internet from around 9-5 Eastern on weekdays and am normally Internet connected outside of those hours as well. I'll be checking throughout the day to see what comes in, but transfers will be most often done between 7AM to 11PM/12AM Eastern Time. All transfers will be processed within 24 hours.

Regarding 1): The error is in the calculation of the fund reserve after a difficulty change (and consequently the SELL dividend) in both the written example and the figures. I'll leave the rest as an exercise for the reader, since this correctness of this calculation is rather crucial for the entire asset.

Quote

Both Havelock and I have agreed that a funds-lock on the Issuer account (how the set up all Issuer accounts) would be the best for the speculators. I have thought of the possibility your scenario; I know that I won't run with the funds, but no one else can know that as a certainty. Allowing fund buy-backs is a crucial part of the speculation process, so I didn't want to get rid of that part. I'm open to any other options that speculators might propose for increased capital security.

There is no way to guarantee that the issuer doesn't cheat investors in some way unless Havelock operates the fund (in which case, investors have to trust Havelock, which they have to anyway since it's on their platform). So trust in you is still required. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean that measures like funds held in escrow are not very effective.

eltopo was in the same situation when he launched his ET.DIFF securities on BTCT, where he wanted to provide a similar level of security through a locked account, but it turned out it was not possible.

After much weeping and gnashing of teeth, I've found the error - in my quest to simplify the explanation for newcomers, I've oversimplified and botched my Difficulty increase dividend calculation. Of course, if Difficulty increases by 20%, then the dividend declines by 16.666%, not 20% (because 1/1.2 = .8333 instead of 1.2/1 = .2).

This is something that I would have caught when I generated my dividend issuance spreadsheet (which, in hindsight, I should have already done).

So, thank you for pointing that out, I really appreciate it - it wasn't a mistake that should have been made but I am indeed fallible. It would have been caught, but it would have possibly made for some miscalculation on others' parts or confusion at the first dividend. I'm revising the contract now on Havelock and on the contract in this thread.

Bitdust

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: twentyseventy on January 24, 2014, 09:17:10 AM

Quote from: Bitdust on January 24, 2014, 09:12:20 AM

Wait, so what's happening with your "porn site"? Is that still a thing?

XXXProfit is ABitInterested's operation, not mine. I am an investor, though, having invested 1.2BTC initially and having also purchased bitcoinmiami's 300 shares at a discount.

oic
You have my full support Cool

Rannasha

hero member

Activity: 728

Merit: 500

Quote from: twentyseventy on January 24, 2014, 09:11:25 AM

Quote from: Rannasha on January 24, 2014, 08:04:59 AM

First of all, I like DMS-style securities, so yay!

Secondly, I have 2 questions:
1) Are you aware that there is a critical error in the calculations in your difficulty-increase example?
2) How will you handle exchanges of the EXCH asset for MINE & SELL? Manual (if so, how frequently) or automatic?

Glad to hear it! I've missed DMS, so I'm excited to bring a form of it back to the market.

1) I've went cross-eyed writing this over the weekend; do you mind pointing it out for me? If it's the 'Difficulty is 1,000,000' part, I'm realizing that I left that in and should not have.
2) EXCH will be manual, but I am on internet from around 9-5 Eastern on weekdays and am normally Internet connected outside of those hours as well. I'll be checking throughout the day to see what comes in, but transfers will be most often done between 7AM to 11PM/12AM Eastern Time. All transfers will be processed within 24 hours.

Regarding 1): The error is in the calculation of the fund reserve after a difficulty change (and consequently the SELL dividend) in both the written example and the figures. I'll leave the rest as an exercise for the reader, since this correctness of this calculation is rather crucial for the entire asset.

Quote

Both Havelock and I have agreed that a funds-lock on the Issuer account (how the set up all Issuer accounts) would be the best for the speculators. I have thought of the possibility your scenario; I know that I won't run with the funds, but no one else can know that as a certainty. Allowing fund buy-backs is a crucial part of the speculation process, so I didn't want to get rid of that part. I'm open to any other options that speculators might propose for increased capital security.

There is no way to guarantee that the issuer doesn't cheat investors in some way unless Havelock operates the fund (in which case, investors have to trust Havelock, which they have to anyway since it's on their platform). So trust in you is still required. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean that measures like funds held in escrow are not very effective.

eltopo was in the same situation when he launched his ET.DIFF securities on BTCT, where he wanted to provide a similar level of security through a locked account, but it turned out it was not possible.

twentyseventy

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

Topic: [Havelock] Bitcoin Difficulty Derivative (BDD) - page 84. (Read 290235 times)