Topic: [HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit) - page 88. (Read 565833 times)

Hahaha. 

Not to that extream.

So pessimistic.  You just gotta flow with the PETA stream man. "Said in a hippie tone"

Newsflash:  Bitcoin Mining Company Expects To Make Money, Not Lose It!

Wouldn't it be strange if a company raising funds told the press it expects to lose money?

*Tilde test fails:  "Mining pools ... are apparently going short on bitcoin by mining as few bitcoins as they can, making the bet that its value will not exceed mining costs."

21e6 is reportedly an asic manufacturer. They fall in the same category as the mega-mines being deployed by KnC, CT, Bitfury/cex.io and possibly a few others like BFL. You can bet that spoonsomething will join them later.  If I could buy shares in those companies, I certainly would,  as Asic manufacturers are not beholden to the market value of their chips, they can produce them at cost and opt to either self mine or sell them for whatever the greatest fool is willing to pay. Doing the latter generates the funds to invest in a far larger hashing capacity for their own mine later. win-win, but for them, not for you.

Well this is an interesting statement: "Mining pools, such as the heavily funded super-secret 21E6 in San Francisco, are apparently going long on bitcoin by mining as many bitcoins as they can, making the bet that its value will exceed mining costs. 21E6 has raised at least $5 million in venture funding." Source: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101711220

If a big player like this heavily funded mining operation (21E6) is making a bet that bitcoin will exceed the mining costs then we should give the same optimistic thought about PETA mine. Sure it's easy to see that we may not be able to keep with bitcoin income, but it's fiat value will certainly catch up in all do time. You know what they say. "In Bitcoin We Trust".

i will consider the bet once a few things are clarified by cryptx, such as the div/reinvestment we are going forward with and if the loan is btc or fiat denominated.

You're not a very good reader, or I must suck at writing.


Reread my statement pls. I was merely pointing out it was impossible to objectively determine ROI of gigamining at that point, since there was no market price and future dividends could not be established. Theoretically *IF* difficulty was projected to drop dramatically, a profit could still be realized, but of course that was never going to happen. YOu wanted to bet on the statement "will be able to realise a positive ROI ", which is far too vague, Im explaining why. Theoretically, gigamining bond holders where still able to realize a positive ROI, but of course they never would nor did.


I agree. But if you can not sell your shares on an open market, we have no way to objectively assess their value. You claiming to be able to sell them via IRC for a certain price isnt good enough for me.



See above. if cryptx migrates to another open exchange, I have no issue with that and the bet remains valid. THe moment you have to rely on private dealings to establish a price, I will not accept that as criterion for this bet for fairly obvious reasons.



Indeed, they are just like activemining and satoshidice and feedzbirds in the sense that they are selling unregistered securities to raise capital.  As for the reason being weird... you cant be that naive. Did you really expect a court or regulator to order someone to pay damages in bitcoin? The moment authorities get involved, everything will be denominated in legal fiat currency. If I accept this bet with the condition that if/when cryptx is forced to pay a fiat sum that can be converted in to more bitcoin than the IPO was worth, Im effectively betting on a price rise because I think the scenario where cryptx is forced to repay in fiat is fairly likely. You seem to think this is unthinkable, so I cant see why you would object to me winning this bet under those circumstances, regardless of what BTC price does.

If I got a satoshi for every time i heard a similar statement, Id have a bitcoin by now. Such a shame BurtW deleted his historic pirate profit thread.

Anyway, sure if you are lucky, flipping shares after an IPO can give you a nice short term profit. If you dont forget to cash out, and if you only bought a handful. However, since bitcoin securization took off,  there must have been close to 100 mining bonds/shares/contracts/cooperatives/units/whatever listed on all the exchanges. Someone correct me if Im wrong, but out of all of these, afaik exactly ZERO achieved a long term btc denominated positive ROI.

So yeah, I wanna play this game.

Firstly, when has difficulty dropped by a few orders of magnitude, are we talking about the same bitcoin here?
2nd. the moment you have more BTC in your wallet at 'cash-out' time than you put in initially it's stops being theoretical and becomes real. If you want to talk too much about 'theoretical gains' you can talk about the positive ROI you've made from funneling your fiat into crypto not being more than a dream until you're back clutching USD in your sweaty palms again


Doesn't matter if they migrate to mpex,bitcoinbourse or get traded in PM's and IRC, all of those above are open no less than havelock. buyer is a buyer and a seller is a seller, profit is profit (or loss is loss, as would be MORE likely should these be delisted) so in that case you'd be more likely to win purely on the 'will IPO buyers be able to see a positive ROI in exactly 6 months' premise..as long as it's verifiable beyond reasonable doubt by neutral 3rd party then should be no problem?

 
You wouldn't want to bet on a BTC denominated profit should cryptx be forced to reimburse fiat (for whatever weird reason) -- because they are just like activemining  into BTC despite strongly believing BTC/fiat is heading skyward right? you sure you know how this betting thing works?

Clearly, 6 month exactly. As for taking my 10BTC, I was pretty clear this is about the 0.0975 BTC iPO.


Yes, but I put those provisions in for a reason. You seem unaware of what happened to gigamining and activemining. Gigamining, after consulting with lawyers, was taken off the market, so those bonds were no longer in any way liquid but the issuer continued paying dividends to bondholders (at least to those willing to fork over all their personal information, doxing themselves and sign a small pile of legal documents). Not that these investors ever got a positive ROI, but it would be impossible to say that for certain, at least before a forced buyback at an arbitrary price took place several years after IPO. The odds of a positive ROI only ever were theoretical, like when difficulty would drop by a few orders of magnitude, but in such a scenario I want to avoid you claiming its possible to ROI. If the cryptx units are no longer being traded on the open market, I win.

As for euro/dollar, that was a reference to activemining who is being forced by regulators to offer reimbursement to its investors at IPO price +8% interest (again only to those doxing themselves). This will have be done in fiat, based on the exchange rate at the IPO. Now, in the case of activemining,  BTC price increased about five fold between the IPO and now, so this ends up being a pretty horrible deal, but if the same were to happen to cryptx, and BTC price were to plummet instead of soar, investors could end up with a BTC denominated profit if you convert the reimbursed dollars/euro's in to BTC. Again this is not a situation were I would want to lose the bet, especially since you claim there is no legal risk, and Im already betting plenty on a BTC price rise.

I'm finding every day a struggle at the moment. I have a golden rule of not overconcentrating money in one project, and I have BTC on hand, and PETA looks so damned attractive at this price (BTC=$654 and rising). Someone point me at a better deal, please....

Only just possible I think.. Not a whole heap of buy orders on havelock at the moment but I think after the other nights big sell off that stooped to all time low played a big part in more buy orders been placed since then

He didnt't tell how much of shares should be sell. Even that I belive that selling 200 shares (10btc/0,05) is possible above 0.05 (ipo price) now.

...on paper... Can you sell your shares in an illiquid market without causing the price to go down significantly?
For me, once dividended BTC > invested BTC, take your principal out and you can take the 'free ride'!.

Not really sure if it's too vague if you think this offerings a losing proposition, you seem to believe the operation will decline/and or be completely delisted meaning dividends and or share price will collapse.

If that's the case, then you would imagine in 6 months (or less) I wouldn't be able to realise a positive ROI anymore right?
we are not talking about 'sometime in' 6 months but 6 months exactly. If we were talking about 6 months or LESS, I'd just take the 10btc off your hands right now.

Obviously, if PETA were to disappear overnight you would automatically win, whereas if shares were to spike tomorrow then collapse in 6 months I'd not win, so it negates somewhat the greater fool theory you talk about. this is a bet to talk only about the long term potential of the mine which you think there is none

to be clear, we are talking strictly about BTC denominated profits- eur/usd/ yen blabla is not counted. Also any privatisation and subsequent otc sales of shares would be open for independent adjudication, the bets not automatically nullified due to lack of 'market price' since there is always a market price as long as there's a market.

Do You really want to play this game? I bought shares per 0.05 last IPO, now after 6 month I gain 50% (assuming 0.075 price) even without divs..

OH, and one more provision I would have to insist on: if regulatory pressure forces cryptx to reimburse shareholders at IPO price (probably plus interest), like happened with activeminer, I also win the bet even if shareholders happen to end up with a profit (which would be EUR denominated). Since you were adamant cryptx isnt violating any regulations, you should have no problem accepting this as term.

Too vague. You might be able to get a positive ROI at some point during those 6 months if you actually sell at the right time and some bigger fool is willing to overpay. After all people made profit trading Pirate bonds too. Heck you could might even be able to spend 10 BTC to make it look like that happened.

Also, if cryptx gets delisted and goes private GigaVPS style, it will be impossible to objectively state if it will still be "possible" to ROI since you wouldnt be able to sell and thus have no market price. Unless you accept that under those circumstances, the value of the bond itself is considered zero and only dividend payments up to that date are considered.