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Topic: Heads-Up: Bank Fraud Alert (Read 7853 times)

sr. member
Activity: 299
Merit: 250
April 25, 2012, 06:30:38 PM
#47
A friend of mine's wife just had her bank account hit with a "BillPay" request that then transferred the money into CampBX. Is this a variation on what you guys are mentioning here? I'd like to try and track the money to find out where it goes.

Raize,
    Yes - banks were fooled by the fake IDs too.  We didn't deposit the flood of BillPay deposits that followed, and have put in new restrictions for BillPay deposits.

Keyur

donator
Activity: 1419
Merit: 1015
April 25, 2012, 12:25:37 PM
#46
A friend of mine's wife just had her bank account hit with a "BillPay" request that then transferred the money into CampBX. Is this a variation on what you guys are mentioning here? I'd like to try and track the money to find out where it goes.
R-
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Pasta
April 23, 2012, 03:37:16 AM
#45
I stopped using Dwolla.
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1004
felonious vagrancy, personified
April 22, 2012, 08:24:36 PM
#44
Essentially, this is what happend to us, MtGox, CampBX, Crypto and to TradeHill

I think the long-run solution might be using Dwolla only for withdrawals (from exchange to my bank account) and inter-exchange transactions (from my mtgox account to my campbx account).

If you need to get money into an exchange from anyplace other than an exchange, you're probably going to have to do a cash deposit.

The situation above is the only way I can see Dwolla being able to make a profit on $0.25/transaction, after factoring in the cost of fraud.  The fraudsters will keep getting more sophisticated.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
April 17, 2012, 07:18:38 PM
#43
So is this policy in place and active now?   If so would expect a bunch of people who've not already verified w/ Dwolla or have not linked their Facebook to their Dwolla account to be starting new threads complaining that they can't send funds to the exchanges.

But I've not seen that yet.

Was that notice instead a trial balloon?

[Update:  Nope, not a trial balloon.  Shows up like this:



 - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wtf-is-up-with-dwolla-theyre-even-bigger-dirtballs-than-i-thought-76910 ]
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
April 16, 2012, 08:22:06 PM
#42
Why didn't the people affected get a notified of this?

We'll likely each learn about this the next time we try to send a Dwolla payment to a bitcoin exchange.

Yep.  They will still let you fund your Dwolla account (pay a fee), and then you will realize you can't send your funds where you meant to without giving them more information than you would need to open a bank account, then you have to transfer back to your bank, realizing they are useless for you (pay another fee).  All while tying your money up for 5+ days.

They are going to piss off a lot of people with this. 
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
April 16, 2012, 07:44:44 PM
#41



Who would use a real account for this?
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
April 16, 2012, 07:36:36 PM
#40
So they are going to charge a quarter then ask for this info?
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
April 16, 2012, 07:31:04 PM
#39
Why didn't the people affected get a notified of this?

We'll likely each learn about this the next time we try to send a Dwolla payment to a bitcoin exchange.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
April 16, 2012, 07:25:47 PM
#38
Why didn't the people affected get a notified of this?
donator
Activity: 296
Merit: 250
April 16, 2012, 07:08:51 PM
#37
Starting today, users sending money to your account will need to meet and/or maintain:

1) Connect a social network
2) Have a bank deposit 30 days old
3) Enable a DWOLLA hub page
4) Have a verified account
(i.e. Social Security and/or Photo Verified)


The users SENDING MONEY need to enable a DWOLLA hub page?  What?

That must be a mistake on Dwolla's end in writing this message.

Either way, this change is going to leave a mark for those using Dwolla with Bitcoin exchanges.

Nope,  I emailed Dwolla support, and all four are required to send funds to certain merchants, such as MtGox.

The fact that they are upselling their service as part of the verification process is disgusting, and (along with needing to be connected to my facebook) the reason I am cancelling my account.

Wow ... if all four are required, this is the end of dwolla as a funding option for bitcoin.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
April 16, 2012, 06:01:29 PM
#36
Starting today, users sending money to your account will need to meet and/or maintain:

1) Connect a social network
2) Have a bank deposit 30 days old
3) Enable a DWOLLA hub page
4) Have a verified account
(i.e. Social Security and/or Photo Verified)


The users SENDING MONEY need to enable a DWOLLA hub page?  What?

That must be a mistake on Dwolla's end in writing this message.

Either way, this change is going to leave a mark for those using Dwolla with Bitcoin exchanges.

Nope,  I emailed Dwolla support, and all four are required to send funds to certain merchants, such as MtGox.

The fact that they are upselling their service as part of the verification process is disgusting, and (along with needing to be connected to my facebook) the reason I am cancelling my account.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
April 16, 2012, 05:15:31 PM
#35
Starting today, users sending money to your account will need to meet and/or maintain:

1) Connect a social network
2) Have a bank deposit 30 days old
3) Enable a DWOLLA hub page
4) Have a verified account
(i.e. Social Security and/or Photo Verified)


The users SENDING MONEY need to enable a DWOLLA hub page?  What?

That must be a mistake on Dwolla's end in writing this message.

Either way, this change is going to leave a mark for those using Dwolla with Bitcoin exchanges.
sr. member
Activity: 299
Merit: 250
April 16, 2012, 04:16:58 PM
#34

Dwolla has stepped up their procedures to counter the latest attack.  Here is a summary of new steps:


--------------------------------------

Starting today, users sending money to your account will need to meet and/or maintain:

1) Connect a social network
2) Have a bank deposit 30 days old
3) Enable a DWOLLA hub page
4) Have a verified account
(i.e. Social Security and/or Photo Verified)

We are working hard to make sure this policy does not affect your most frequent, loyal, and responsible customers.

Thanks for being a part of Dwolla. We hope our new changes will protect customers and merchants alike. Please let us know if you have any questions.

All the best,
Dwolla

--------------------------------------



Discussion at this thread by Charlie: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/email-from-dwolla-regarding-reversals-76866

member
Activity: 128
Merit: 10
April 15, 2012, 06:43:56 PM
#33
I would be happy if someone will pay me back the cash bills I lost when I got drunk last night.

The identity verification is only invasion in anonymity on legitimate users, this will not stop fraud. Checked on MtGox and Paxum - they both accept photoshoped files. The bank transactions also should be made irreversible. This will protect exchanges and merchants. The losers who are unable to protect their data and computers will lose their money sooner or later anyway.

I totally agree with this guy.

Government regulation almost NEVER prevents criminals from perpetrating crimes. Criminals will always find a way around the rules. All it does is infringe on the rights and privacy of law-abiding citizens. It's the sad truth, new rules don't protect anyone.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1001
rippleFanatic
April 15, 2012, 01:52:31 PM
#32
They need to get accepted into the online push/bill pay system. Alot of banks are VERY tight on who they allow to use it.

For years, Paypal was using pull. Finally, only a few years ago they were allowed to use the better system

This just seems so back-ass-wards.  They should allow more businesses into the push system because it allows the banks to vet them.  Accessing the pull should be the more restrictive option! 


I ran into this problem last year. Talked to managers at several different branches (Chase) who kept insisting it was impossible for me to push ACH and that what I actually wanted to do was pay the fee for a domestic wire transfer. Turned out that I had to set up a business account, and pay an additional monthly fee for the ability to initiate ACH transactions.


Dwolla just needs to get rid of the "pull" ACH funding option.  This is the most insecure money transmission ever invented by the banks.  It's awful.  All I need is a printed check from any person, and i can pull money from their account.  No PIN, no security, nothing.  It should be dropped entirely.  "push" type ACH, initiated by logging in to your online bill-pay, is much more secure. 

I don't think this is true. You need the bank login/pw to confirm the Dwolla verification deposits. Anyway, eCheck fraud isn't the problem. Bitcoin exchanges are facing this type of online bank fraud (deposit verification + ACH pull) because the bank account log-ins that can do ACH push (like payroll accounts) are defrauded more directly through reloadable debit cards or money mules (http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/04/thieves-replacing-money-mules-with-prepaid-cards/).
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000
Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem
April 15, 2012, 01:18:00 PM
#31
They need to get accepted into the online push/bill pay system. Alot of banks are VERY tight on who they allow to use it.

For years, Paypal was using pull. Finally, only a few years ago they were allowed to use the better system

This just seems so back-ass-wards.  They should allow more businesses into the push system because it allows the banks to vet them.  Accessing the pull should be the more restrictive option! 


I know, the whole ACH protocal is so archaic. The ACH bylaws are moronic and the whole syste, was built without any cognitive oversight whatsoever.

It was more like 'Heres alot of money, build a system you think will work and we will use it. Have a nice day'

Oh jolly,
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
April 15, 2012, 12:52:54 PM
#30
They need to get accepted into the online push/bill pay system. Alot of banks are VERY tight on who they allow to use it.

For years, Paypal was using pull. Finally, only a few years ago they were allowed to use the better system

This just seems so back-ass-wards.  They should allow more businesses into the push system because it allows the banks to vet them.  Accessing the pull should be the more restrictive option! 
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000
Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem
April 15, 2012, 12:49:00 PM
#29
Dwolla just needs to get rid of the "pull" ACH funding option.  This is the most insecure money transmission ever invented by the banks.  It's awful.  All I need is a printed check from any person, and i can pull money from their account.  No PIN, no security, nothing.  It should be dropped entirely.  "push" type ACH, initiated by logging in to your online bill-pay, is much more secure.  

They need to get accepted into the online push/bill pay system. Alot of banks are VERY tight on who they allow to use it.

For years, Paypal was using pull. Finally, only a few years ago they were allowed to use the better system
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
April 15, 2012, 12:39:30 PM
#28
Dwolla just needs to get rid of the "pull" ACH funding option.  This is the most insecure money transmission ever invented by the banks.  It's awful.  All I need is a printed check from any person, and i can pull money from their account.  No PIN, no security, nothing.  It should be dropped entirely.  "push" type ACH, initiated by logging in to your online bill-pay, is much more secure.  
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