Topic: Health and Religion - page 27. (Read 210823 times)

BADecker stated that the laws in Leviticus were given and apply to ancient Israel.

Let's see what the Orthodox Jews say about this topic.

HOMOSEXUALITY IN ORTHODOX JUDAISM
http://lookstein.org/resources/homosexuality_amsel.pdf

The overarching argument appears to be one of willful self destruction.

That if a society chooses to embrace Toaiva-abomination be it child sacrifice, beastiality, occultism, or yes homosexuality that society will sooner or later be "distroyed by God".

It would cease to exist presumably by not fully understood cause and effect mechanisms that undermine something necessary for society to survive.

Now if you believe the Bible is arbitrary man made rules you reject that argument. The multiculturalist for example argue that all cultures and practices are equally valuable. One does wonder how they would deal with child sacrifice if all the societies practicing it had not already been destroyed.

Regardless we live in a secular society where homosexuality is accepted and celebrated with frequent parades.

Will that acceptance cause growing problems and gnaw away at the foundations of our society over time? The answer to that probably depends on whether you think the Bible is the word of God or arbitrary rules.

He doesn't even know. His arguments are like a 5 year old, hurr durr my name is not in the bible therefore I don't have to do it. There are plenty of ridiculous laws and punishments in the new testament too. https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html

So far badecker hasn't been able to argue why homosexuality is wrong or why should we kill them, he simply says, god said it, therefore must be right. A man who would do anything a book says is mentally ill.

Here you are, bringing up a different subject. What's the matter? Can't figure any response to the things I said?

And why do you think that I do or don't accept some of the O.T. laws but not others? As I have been telling you, the O.T. laws apply to people to whom they are meant for, one way or another. They are not immoral.

How do you know what people think about you and your family? How many of them tell you what they think? But since you don't believe the laws they tell you about, why would you believe what they say they think about your family?

Actually, it is you who have become brainwashed. Listen to your family. you have the chance to be saved. Stop throwing your very self "under the bus."

You don't quite have it yet. For example. If you and I and Joe are in a boat, and the boat is sinking, and I say to Joe, "Put your life jacket on because we will be in the water shortly," who did I give the command to? You or Joe? Didn't I give the command to Joe, but not to you? But you heard the command and can take warning (or not), because the boat is going to sink out from under you, as well. Do you somehow think that you will not be in the water when the boat sinks, just because the life jacket command was not given directly to you?

Same with the laws in the O.T. They were not given to you. But you have seen them. The results of disobedience are happening to you, even though they might happen is slightly different ways for all people.


One commandment in the Ten Commandments is, "You shall not steal." A 10-C person might follow the commandment because he is following the commandment. I don't steal NOT because I know that the commandment exists. Rather, I am not stealing for another reason than obeying the commandment. What might that reason be? The Pentecostals explain that reason all the time.


Many churches do not clarify the distinction between the O.T. and the N.T.  And that is not good, because the Testaments are not expressed in the same way. But they both express the same thing  from different standpoints.

The O.T. standpoint is from before Jesus came to take the punishment for sins. The N.T. standpoint is from after Jesus came and took the punishment for sins. In fact, technically speaking, the Gospel writings (first 4 books of the N.T.) contain both O.T. info and N.T. info. How? The O.T. info is taught by Jesus before He died on the cross and arose. Virtually none of the things Jesus says after He has risen is the same as what He said before He died. He is not stating different things. He is merely stating them from different standpoint directions.


It seems that you are ignoring the major point in life. This point is that neither you nor science has any information that overcomes Bible info.

What do I mean? I mean, nobody can make life or create a universe. Scientists don't know how any of it came about; their ideas are all guesswork; if they knew, they could make some life or create a universe.

In other words, everything that you believe in regarding life and how the universe came about, is all essentially impossible. Since we are living in something that is impossible for it to exist, isn't it time that you start to seek the God you think is impossible, to find out how these impossible things can exist?



Who says anything about no Ten Commandments? Haven't I been explaining about the Ten Commandments right along with the whole Old Testament? All you want to do is confuse things by saying this.

Like Jesus after His resurrection, Saint Paul explains that we are to live by the Spirit if we are Christians. A Christian receives the Spirit of God, and doesn't follow the 10 by looking at them and following. Rather, the Holy Spirit directs the life of Christians in ways that they do the things of the Law, without literally following the Law. They do it all through love. And this love follows the pattern of, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

The fact that many Christians are mixed up in the way that they obey God, doesn't take away from the fact that they are Christians. Here is what I mean.

"Christ" is the Greek word for the Jewish word "Messiah." Both, O.T and N.T. express the Messiah/Christ. The difference was that the Holy Spirit wasn't given to the masses of O.T. believers, because the payment for sins had not been made, yet. Jesus had not died on the cross to pay for sins. After Jesus paid the penalty, there was no more reason to keep the Holy Spirit away from believers.

Do you think that this is crazy? Take a look at the whole universe. Such a small amount of it can be explained by anybody, that the whole universe is crazy in the same way. The universe is impossible. Yet it is here.

Scientists who are waking up to a whole view of the universe are starting to talk about God from a scientific standpoint. They don't call Him God, but they are recognizing that some great and (at least partially) intelligent force penetrates everything that exists.

This God is the One Who expresses Himself through the Bible. Why does He do so? Because scientists are too dumb to figure Him out except in very limited ways. And without figuring Him out and believing in Jesus salvation, there will only be destruction when the end of the universe comes.

Consider. Scientists have found massive black holes in several parts of the universe. They see the BH light that supposedly was sent out thousands or millions or billions of years ago. But the thing that nobody knows is if the universe was not destroyed long ago by a gigantic BH. And the electromagnetic wave front of that BH is coming right behind the speed of light, and is almost on top of us. In other words, the destruction is propagated almost at the speed of light, and we will not see it until it is right on top of us.

We are ignorant. The Bible expresses that the judgment is near, through the prophesies that it expresses. The whole starry sky that we see at night might be entirely gone. The only reason we see the stars is that the destruction is moving near the speed of light, following the light from the stars.

You better double-think the things that you are believing in. They are not known to be true. It will probably be hard for you to do this, because you can't seem to hold more than about two points in your head at any one time.

The N.T. is addressed to Christians, of which I am one. Just because the Bible is addressed to certain people, doesn't mean that what it says about other people won't take place. Notice the words of Leviticus 20:13 that you quoted above: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Do those words tell you to do the executions? Do they tell me to do them? Who do they suggest should do them?

The instruction regarding who should do the executing is set in the first 5 verses of Leviticus 20:
Notice who is to do it: "The members of the community... ." But if they fail: "If the members of the community close their eyes ... I myself will set my face against him and his family and will cut them off from their people together with all who follow him... ." This instruction is carried on through the whole chapter of Leviticus 20 with regard to any of the laws that follow.

Notice, again who is to do it. The people of Ancient Israel. But who is to do it if these laws are adopted by other nations because they are such good laws? The executioners that the governments of those nations select to do it.

In other words, all your and Astartath's blabber to suggest that the Bible orders anybody to execute homosexuals in these N.T. times, is just a bunch of BS. All you are trying to do is justify yourselves. Justify yourselves? Yes! Justify yourselves because God, Himself, will judge and condemn you when necessary. And it won't be fun for you when that happens.

So, who did God give the law to? Didn't He give it to the people of Ancient Israel? Wasn't ancient Israel finally completely destroyed with the downfall of Jerusalem in 70AD? God didn't command all people to do those laws. He commanded the people of ancient Israel to do those laws.

For example. Go to the temple of Osiris in Abydos, Egypt. Read some of the hieroglyphics on the walls, etc. Were these written for you? Of course not. Can you attempt to follow them if you want? Of course.

Notice Deuteronomy 4:8 where Moses says to the people of Ancient Israel:Notice what he says: "And what other nation... ?" So, why do you try to extend those laws to other nations?

Now, if I want to adopt those laws as my own because they are so good, why can't I do it? But God didn't command me to do this. Or do you have evidence that He did? Show me where my name or other identifying feature says that I must adopt those laws. Also, show me where I have ever said that I have adopted those laws.

If I am required to obey those laws, however, then you are, too. So get out there and suicide yourself... or turn from your sin so that you don't have to execute yourself.

Well, I apologize. I didn't realize how mentally weak you are. I just replied to Astargath, above, that even the name "BADecker" isn't found in the Bible. So how do you know that God is commanding me to do anything like kill gay people? Or are you trying to say that He is commanding gay people to kill themselves?

You don't seem to understand much of anything. At least Astargath makes a little sense now and again.

But, what can anybody expect, other than all those mentally debilitating diseases passed on among you gay folk.

How many people could have ever competed with Bruce Lee successfully in martial arts?

Einstein and Hawking were very smart, scientifically.

Most people can't even come close to bench pressing like the best.

In fact, there are great men in every field.

But usually there are a few people who approach the best of the best.

Nobody approaches God. Even Satan thought he could create something like God did. So he created destruction. But God is even destroying destruction, thereby using Satan's creation better than Satan could. The culmination of the destruction of destruction will be upon us following the judgment, when the evil people and angels, including Satan, will be thrown into the lake of fire.

There is only one God. Other beings might be so named by people. But there is only one God.

Oh come on! Show me the place in the Bible where the name "BADecker" is even found. It isn't in the Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic. And it isn't in the English translations. The Bible was written for the homosexuals of the day to execute themselves. But since they were disobedient enough to be homosexuals, everybody knew that they wouldn't do it themselves. So the Ancient Israel people needed to step in and help them.

Consider. The Old Testament laws of the Bible were given to Ancient Israel. They were not given to the ancient Egyptians, Chinese, Babylonians, Siberians, or anyone else. They were given to Ancient Israel.

And who were the Bible laws directed at? I mean, the Ancient Israel people weren't supposed to go to China and kill all the homosexual Chinese. Nor the homosexual Babylonians. Nor the Siberians. Nor the Egyptians; God even told the Israel people to never go back to Egypt again. So, who were the laws to be enforced on? Why the Ancient Israel people, of course.

And, as noted briefly above, who were to be doing the executions of the Ancient Israel homosexuals? Wasn't it the Ancient Israel people who were to do it? And guess what nation the Ancient Israel homosexual people  were from. Weren't they people of Ancient Israel? So, they disobeyed God in two ways. They became homosexuals, and they didn't carry out God's command to execute homosexuals of Ancient Israel.

Thank God that He left some faithful people in Ancient Israel who carried out God's commands.

Show us the spot in the New Testament where Christians are ordered to kill homosexuals. You can't. There isn't one.

How in the world dumb are you? And you talk about winning and losing! IF you want to win, you gotta get your head out of the sand and into the game... at least a little.

You are playing word games. The legal status is determined by the word which is a crime by definition.

Try it with others crime and see how silly it sounds.

Yes, it constitutes rape.   But I am not a judge to determine the legal status of that rape.
Yes, it constitutes theft.   But I am not a judge to determine the legal status of that theft.
Yes, it constitutes murder.   But I am not a judge to determine the legal status of that murder.

We have lots of other words to describe things we don't like that are not crimes. Bad parenting for example or shameful action.

That's not what you said. You said teaching religion to ones children is child abuse which is a crime and has a legal definition and legal consequences.

You are now arguing that teaching religion to your children is a bad idea. That in your opinion it is not in the children's best interest. That is very different then your earlier claims of criminality and child abuse.

You cannot do whatever you want to your children. That is an obviously incorrect statement. We have certain crimes that parents are legally not allowed to inflict on their children. Those crimes are called child abuse.

Just so we are clear and understand each other's position. You do not feel that teaching religion to ones children is child abuse? Child abuse is a crime leads to the removal of children from the parents home and has a legal definition.

Child Abuse
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Child+Abuse
Physical, sexual, or emotional mistreatment or neglect of a child.
Child Abuse has been defined as an act, or failure to act, on the part of a parent or caretaker that results in the death, serious physical or emotional harm, Sexual Abuse, or exploitation of a child, or which places the child in an imminent risk of serious harm (42 U.S.C.A. § 5106g).

Even the most conservative Jews the ultra-orthodox acknowledge that Torah must be understood as rules given to them by God in ancient times. Rules which must be reconciled to a modern reality.

No Jews perform animal sacrifices in a temple for example.

I have already started that I don't think we should kill gay people. I said it several times actually. I have never met anyone who thinks we should execute gay people.

I think we should study what causes a disruption of the reproductively functional sex drive and once we understand it learn how to cure it.  That is easily achievable with our current level of technological development.

What do you hope to accomplish by asking BADecker the same question over and over again?

I have probably read only a small fraction of BADeckers post and I have seen him answer this question of yours several times already. Here is one example.


He has clearly stated that the punishments outlined in the opening books of the Bible were instructions for ancient Israel. Every Christian I have ever met shares this belief it's not rare and there are solid reasons for taking this position some of which I highlighted immediately upthread.

The Philosophy of af_newbie

Do not harm people and other animals.

Except:
1) Children of religious people. They are sure to be dangerously influenced by their parents beliefs and should be forcibly taken from their homes and placed in orphanages. Maybe if the parents publicly renounce their faith and swear never to speak of it we can simply put observation devices in all the rooms of their homes instead.

2) Anyone not smart, wealthy or powerful enough to avoid involuntarily sterilization or behavioral modification. The world is overpopulated and the way to slow that down is to let natural selection weed out the powerless with a little help of course. Chemical's that reduce sex drive, toxins that trigger or exacerbate homosexuality, pollution that leads to sterilization all things to be quietly flooded into the environment. Survival of the fittest in action.

3) When not harming people or animals is impractical. Each individual gets to decide what "practical" means. We need to eat and survive after all and it's a dog eat dog world out there.

But don't harm people and other animals that's important (except when it's not) and utterly self evident.


Feel free to correct me if I have mischaracterized any of your positions.

You copy pasted that btw. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.36856253

You were not able to respond, means you lost.

You said the bible is a moral code divinely inspired, the bible clearly states you should kill homosexuals, don't use excuses now, don't be a pussy, come on do it, god will save you.

You are living in a cavern. Even if it is a tent, it is a portable cavern. Wake up and see that people haven't changed except to become a little "dumber" than they were thousands of years ago.

Your debunking has been debunked. Do you know how we know that your debunking has been debunked? By the fact that you can't explain anything of your so-called debunking in such a way that would show that you know what you are talking about. Since you don't know what you are talking about (as exampled by your inability to explain any of it), you also don't know that there is anything to debunk.

You are operating from a standpoint of ignorant blab. It is your religion, since you like it that way. When are you going to step out of your dumb religion, into the religion that produces good health?

But remember the little word (if) in your statement.

IF it were a completely known fact that God Himself told me to do anything, I would do it. IF it were a completely known fact that any of His commands were for me and not for other people, I would follow them.

Since you are so extremely corrupted in your ways, you turn you back on the whole idea of the existence of God, although I have shown you much of the proof of God's existence.

It is you who are helping to kill homosexual people. How? Simply by encouraging them to continue to remain in their homosexuality, to their own damnation in Hell. It will go far worse for you than for them.

You think those things because it is so much easier in your corrupted state, than examining statistics and science. If you examined science, you would see that cause and effect, plus entropy, plus complexity, as they all exist in this universe, prove that God exists.

If you examined the science of the history of the nation of Israel, and the history of the way the Bible came together, and the kind of people the nation of Israel is, and compared it all to probability, you would see that Israel and the Bible have not come together by accident. Rather, you would see that they are impossible to have come together the way they have (just like the existence of the earth and life the way they are, are impossible). Studying the other religions and nations confirms it.

All your thinking is simply nonsense in your head. It proves the fact that you and the devil have corrupted your core nature, and that you enjoy the fact that you are corrupted. It's only by the grace of God that you don't go all the way and corrupt yourself with the corruption that the worms in the ground will do to you after you die.

There is so extremely much room left for populations to expand on the earth, that making populations grow is the thing that we should be doing ahead of everything else. This way we might be able to expand science with all those extra minds, so that we could do all kinds of things that we are too weak to do because there are not enough of us. You are extremely backward in your thinking.