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Topic: Health and Religion - page 24. (Read 210900 times)

legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 06, 2018, 08:26:25 AM

God doesn't simply answer prayers for a show. He does it for people who are in need. Certainly someone who loses both arms and legs is someone in need and plenty of people that actually believe in god have been praying for them and yet it never happened. I guess god doesn't want to show us his existence that way, it would be too easy and it would make us atheists believe in him, he obviously doesn't want that

Cool

How really silly are you trying to be? Consider the following.

Make a real arm or leg. You can't do it. Science can't do it. After painstaking research, science is only finally finding out how to adapt the nature of a few animals that CAN regrow limbs, in such a way that they might possibly apply it to people someday. In other words, as far as science goes, regrowing limbs is still way beyond their reach.

What does this mean? This means that there is a lot of technology in growing arms and legs. Science doesn't have a clue, science is completely blind, regarding how to grow a limb from scratch without using some of the processes that nature has provided. To repeat, science has absolutely no idea as to how to take a bunch of chemicals and turn them into an arm or leg.

The point? The point is that regrowing an arm or leg requires a large amount of capability, way beyond anything that we can even imagine at this time.

So, where did you get your arms and legs that you have already? Didn't you get them free? Certainly you didn't buy them, right? You might have exercised them or trained them in certain ways, but if you hadn't gotten them free, there would be no way you could get them at all!

Again, the point is that there is a tremendous amount of "stuff" in the nature of arms an legs that is miraculous regarding anything that we can do to make them.

Now consider the miracles that Jesus did as recorded in the Bible. Some of them were done quite easily by Him. Look at the transfiguration of Jesus in Matthew 17. While Jesus and 3 of His disciples were on the mount of transfiguration, a man with a demon (epilepsy?) possessed son came to the disciples He had left behind at the foot of the mountain for help. But they couldn't heal the boy. The disciples couldn't cast the demon out as they had done at other times, possibly because it was epilepsy. Look at what happens when Jesus comes into the situation, Matthew 17:16-21:
"... 16I brought him to your disciples, but they couldn’t heal him.”

17Jesus replied, “You unbelieving and perverted generation! How long must I be with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring him here to me!” 18Then Jesus rebuked the demon and it came out of him, and the boy was healed that very hour.

19Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?”

20He told them, “Because of your lack of faith. I tell all of you with certainty, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you. 21But this kind does not come out except by prayer and fasting.”

You won't ever get the things you desire along these lines of healing. Why not? No faith. The Bible section shown above shows why something as tremendous as regrowing arms and legs isn't being done in miraculous ways by more than a few people. They aren't praying and fasting enough in faith.

Again, why doesn't a small amount of prayer and fasting work to restore lost limbs? Because of the gigantic amount of "technology" within things like limbs. It is also why you lost any faith that you might have had years ago. You simply gave up when it didn't work out for you like you thought it should.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
June 06, 2018, 04:49:51 AM

I know science works, we are certainly never going to mars thanks to prayer so go back to your cave.

Your basic science that you use is political science. Your post doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you don't know the future. The way you posted is political science in form.

Since you don't know that we might go to Mars because of prayer, yet state the opposite, you show that you don't really know anything.

Luke 16:8,9:
“The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light. I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

So you see. Unbelievers are very shrewd. But like the dishonest manager that these verses are in references to, they will ultimately be kicked out. However, you probably won't understand this.

Cool

Since prayer has never given someone a limb back, for example, I know for a fact prayer does not work, plenty of studies have been made, prayer is useless.

Many people pray for all kinds of medical help. All medical that works is a gift of God despite the medical system that is greedy for money. Prayer without faith is not prayer, even though it might seem to be. The studies are not taking faith into account.

God doesn't simply answer prayers for a show. He does it for people who are in need. Luke 20:1-8:
1One day as Jesus was teaching the people in the temple courts and proclaiming the good news, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, together with the elders, came up to him. 2“Tell us by what authority you are doing these things,” they said. “Who gave you this authority?”

3He replied, “I will also ask you a question. Tell me: 4John’s baptism—was it from heaven, or of human origin?”

5They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Why didn’t you believe him?’ 6But if we say, ‘Of human origin,’ all the people will stone us, because they are persuaded that John was a prophet.”

7So they answered, “We don’t know where it was from.”

8Jesus said, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.”

Cool

God doesn't simply answer prayers for a show. He does it for people who are in need. Certainly someone who loses both arms and legs is someone in need and plenty of people that actually believe in god have been praying for them and yet it never happened. I guess god doesn't want to show us his existence that way, it would be too easy and it would make us atheists believe in him, he obviously doesn't want that

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
June 05, 2018, 08:58:16 PM

Eye for an Eye: One of the Greatest Ideas in History
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UrakW1DjApo
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 05, 2018, 04:51:26 PM

I know science works, we are certainly never going to mars thanks to prayer so go back to your cave.

Your basic science that you use is political science. Your post doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you don't know the future. The way you posted is political science in form.

Since you don't know that we might go to Mars because of prayer, yet state the opposite, you show that you don't really know anything.

Luke 16:8,9:
“The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light. I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

So you see. Unbelievers are very shrewd. But like the dishonest manager that these verses are in references to, they will ultimately be kicked out. However, you probably won't understand this.

Cool

Since prayer has never given someone a limb back, for example, I know for a fact prayer does not work, plenty of studies have been made, prayer is useless.

Many people pray for all kinds of medical help. All medical that works is a gift of God despite the medical system that is greedy for money. Prayer without faith is not prayer, even though it might seem to be. The studies are not taking faith into account.

God doesn't simply answer prayers for a show. He does it for people who are in need. Luke 20:1-8:
1One day as Jesus was teaching the people in the temple courts and proclaiming the good news, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, together with the elders, came up to him. 2“Tell us by what authority you are doing these things,” they said. “Who gave you this authority?”

3He replied, “I will also ask you a question. Tell me: 4John’s baptism—was it from heaven, or of human origin?”

5They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Why didn’t you believe him?’ 6But if we say, ‘Of human origin,’ all the people will stone us, because they are persuaded that John was a prophet.”

7So they answered, “We don’t know where it was from.”

8Jesus said, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.”

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
June 05, 2018, 04:18:34 PM

I know science works, we are certainly never going to mars thanks to prayer so go back to your cave.

Your basic science that you use is political science. Your post doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you don't know the future. The way you posted is political science in form.

Since you don't know that we might go to Mars because of prayer, yet state the opposite, you show that you don't really know anything.

Luke 16:8,9:
“The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light. I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

So you see. Unbelievers are very shrewd. But like the dishonest manager that these verses are in references to, they will ultimately be kicked out. However, you probably won't understand this.

Cool

Since prayer has never given someone a limb back, for example, I know for a fact prayer does not work, plenty of studies have been made, prayer is useless.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 05, 2018, 03:53:53 PM

I know science works, we are certainly never going to mars thanks to prayer so go back to your cave.

Your basic science that you use is political science. Your post doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you don't know the future. The way you posted is political science in form.

Since you don't know that we might go to Mars because of prayer, yet state the opposite, you show that you don't really know anything.

Luke 16:8,9:
“The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light. I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

So you see. Unbelievers are very shrewd. But like the dishonest manager that these verses are in references to, they will ultimately be kicked out. However, you probably won't understand this.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
June 05, 2018, 09:13:18 AM

Many events happened, like, 5 years ago. What does any of that have to do with you being able to predict the future? If it happens as you say, it wasn't because any of your predictions were know to be factual ahead of time. All it means is that your guess was the guess that happened... right along with the guess of thousands of others who guessed the same way.

Cool

It's not a prediction, the first man made mission is set to be around 2024, considering that it might have some delay or problems, the 10-20 years estimation is more than generous, 2024 is 6 years from now.

There are multitudes of unforeseen things that might stop it easily. Consider Bitcoin. In less that 10 years of Bitcoin beta, Bitcoin has made a dent in the more-than-100-y-o financial system. In addition, the petrodollar is collapsing because other countries are moving away from it to things like crypto or gold. Will the USD be able to stand so that it can support Mars plans? We don't know the future.

Cool

I know science works, we are certainly never going to mars thanks to prayer so go back to your cave.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 05, 2018, 08:30:36 AM

Many events happened, like, 5 years ago. What does any of that have to do with you being able to predict the future? If it happens as you say, it wasn't because any of your predictions were know to be factual ahead of time. All it means is that your guess was the guess that happened... right along with the guess of thousands of others who guessed the same way.

Cool

It's not a prediction, the first man made mission is set to be around 2024, considering that it might have some delay or problems, the 10-20 years estimation is more than generous, 2024 is 6 years from now.

There are multitudes of unforeseen things that might stop it easily. Consider Bitcoin. In less that 10 years of Bitcoin beta, Bitcoin has made a dent in the more-than-100-y-o financial system. In addition, the petrodollar is collapsing because other countries are moving away from it to things like crypto or gold. Will the USD be able to stand so that it can support Mars plans? We don't know the future.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
June 05, 2018, 04:34:33 AM

Personally I will be going to Mars where hopefully we have no religion.

You'll be dead long before you get there... and more than likely even off the ground.

Cool

We will get there in 10-20 years, not thanks to god, thanks to science because as you can see science works, religion doesn't.

Thousands or millions of people were delayed on their way to the corner store. And you think you know we will make it to Mars? LOL!

However, if that is your religion, and if it improves your health somehow, more power to you.

 Cool

Curiosity landed on mars like 5 years ago dude, welcome to the future, yes I know it's not a human but 7 landings of unmanned spacecrafts have been successful. It's not me saying it. ''SpaceX' aspirational goal is to land the first humans on Mars by 2024'' Obviously we can't be sure but it's really not that hard to think it will happen in 10-20 years at most. 

Many events happened, like, 5 years ago. What does any of that have to do with you being able to predict the future? If it happens as you say, it wasn't because any of your predictions were know to be factual ahead of time. All it means is that your guess was the guess that happened... right along with the guess of thousands of others who guessed the same way.

Cool

It's not a prediction, the first man made mission is set to be around 2024, considering that it might have some delay or problems, the 10-20 years estimation is more than generous, 2024 is 6 years from now.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
June 04, 2018, 10:09:11 PM
Just one to mention one thing, height doesn't have anything to do with intelligence, like you mentioned in the OP. Unless they are taller because they had better nutrition growing up, which does affect intelligence.

Height and IQ are positively correlated in children. I do not know how much of this effect is due to nutrition. However, the studies I cited were done in the US in the 1920s which so poor nutrition would presumably have been less of an issue. Here is a discussion from earlier in the thread where I highlighted my source for this.

Those gifted with superior intellect are not only smarter, they are also taller, healthier, and more athletic than average.

Let's start with your first claim

You are claiming that people with high IQ are also taller, healthier, and more athletic

Where the hell did you get that idea?

The original studies are old and to my knowledge not available online but a summary can be found here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Terman

Quote from: Wikipedia
Terman found his answers in his longitudinal study on gifted children: Genetic Studies of Genius.[12] Initiated in 1921, the Genetic Studies of Genius was from the outset a long-term study of gifted children. Published in five volumes, Terman followed children with extremely high IQ in childhood throughout their lives. The fifth volume examined the children in a 35 year follow-up, and looked at the gifted group during mid-life.[13]

Genetic Studies of Genius revealed that gifted and genius children were in at least as good as average health and had normal personalities. Few of them demonstrated the previously-held negative stereotypes of gifted children. He found that gifted children did not fit the existing stereotypes often associated with them: they were not weak and sickly social misfits, but in fact were generally taller, in better health, better developed physically, and better adapted socially than other children. The children included in his studies were colloquially referred to as "Termites".[14] The gifted children thrived both socially and academically. In relationships, they were a less likely to divorce.[6]
Additionally, those in the gifted group were generally successful in their careers: Many received awards recognizing their achievements. Though many of the children (affectionately known as “Termites” [6]) reached exceptional heights in adulthood, not all did. Terman explored the causes of obvious talent not being realized, exploring personal obstacles, education, and lack of opportunity as causes.[9]
sr. member
Activity: 257
Merit: 252
June 04, 2018, 09:22:56 PM
Just one to mention one thing, height doesn't have anything to do with intelligence, like you mentioned in the OP. Unless they are taller because they had better nutrition growing up, which does affect intelligence.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 04, 2018, 08:53:25 PM

Personally I will be going to Mars where hopefully we have no religion.

You'll be dead long before you get there... and more than likely even off the ground.

Cool

We will get there in 10-20 years, not thanks to god, thanks to science because as you can see science works, religion doesn't.

Thousands or millions of people were delayed on their way to the corner store. And you think you know we will make it to Mars? LOL!

However, if that is your religion, and if it improves your health somehow, more power to you.

 Cool

Curiosity landed on mars like 5 years ago dude, welcome to the future, yes I know it's not a human but 7 landings of unmanned spacecrafts have been successful. It's not me saying it. ''SpaceX' aspirational goal is to land the first humans on Mars by 2024'' Obviously we can't be sure but it's really not that hard to think it will happen in 10-20 years at most. 

Many events happened, like, 5 years ago. What does any of that have to do with you being able to predict the future? If it happens as you say, it wasn't because any of your predictions were know to be factual ahead of time. All it means is that your guess was the guess that happened... right along with the guess of thousands of others who guessed the same way.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
June 04, 2018, 02:46:47 PM

Personally I will be going to Mars where hopefully we have no religion.

You'll be dead long before you get there... and more than likely even off the ground.

Cool

We will get there in 10-20 years, not thanks to god, thanks to science because as you can see science works, religion doesn't.

Thousands or millions of people were delayed on their way to the corner store. And you think you know we will make it to Mars? LOL!

However, if that is your religion, and if it improves your health somehow, more power to you.

 Cool

Curiosity landed on mars like 5 years ago dude, welcome to the future, yes I know it's not a human but 7 landings of unmanned spacecrafts have been successful. It's not me saying it. ''SpaceX' aspirational goal is to land the first humans on Mars by 2024'' Obviously we can't be sure but it's really not that hard to think it will happen in 10-20 years at most. 
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 04, 2018, 10:25:31 AM

Personally I will be going to Mars where hopefully we have no religion.

You'll be dead long before you get there... and more than likely even off the ground.

Cool

We will get there in 10-20 years, not thanks to god, thanks to science because as you can see science works, religion doesn't.

Thousands or millions of people were delayed on their way to the corner store. And you think you know we will make it to Mars? LOL!

However, if that is your religion, and if it improves your health somehow, more power to you.

 Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
June 02, 2018, 12:57:16 PM

Personally I will be going to Mars where hopefully we have no religion.

You'll be dead long before you get there... and more than likely even off the ground.

Cool

We will get there in 10-20 years, not thanks to god, thanks to science because as you can see science works, religion doesn't.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 01, 2018, 07:43:40 PM

Personally I will be going to Mars where hopefully we have no religion.

You'll be dead long before you get there... and more than likely even off the ground.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
May 31, 2018, 05:57:31 PM

UN has been consistently wrong about this.

It is not my estimate. It is math.

Global population growth rate oscillates between 1-2%.

Look up "doubling time" or "rule 72".

The rough formula for doubling time is:
70 divided by the growth rate.

If the global population growth rate stays at 1% the population will double in 70 years no matter what anybody thinks.

If the rate goes back up to 2%, the population will double in 35 years.

There is nothing to argue.  The only thing you can do is to try to estimate the growth rate.

Moving less educated people from less educated countries (Africa, Middle-East, Latin America where the average IQ is around 85 or lower) to more affluent countries will increase the global growth rate not decrease it.  

I think the global growth rate will stay above 1% for some time.  Unless some major diseases kick in and increase the death rates.

In one doubling time, there will be 1 person per 10,000 square meters.  In five doubling times, there will be 1 person per 625 square meters (~6700 sq ft) LOL.

You think humanity will survive five doubling times here on Earth?

PS. It looks like we are going to reach 8 billion in 2022-2023.
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-population-by-year/

I think human life on earth could survive three doubling times. Not sure about five.

I have been to India. The population density there is 382 per square kilometer. It is pretty crowded there already though they get by. Total population density of the world right now is about 55 per square kilometer (excluding Antarctica because that not really habitable with current technology). Three population doublings would take the population to about 60 billion and make the global population density about 440 per square kilometer 15% higher then that of India today.

That would be pretty crowded but I suspect technology, technological advances and human ingenuity could handle that much provided we cooperate and don't do anything too stupid. Even using your not so accurate projection of a population growth of 1% a year that is 210 year of technological progress to handle the growth.

Also your guess is likely to be wildly inaccurate. Population growth is likely to be far less than 1%. I am not an expert on the data but my understanding is that the UN estimates tend to error on the side of overestimating growth rates. Also worldwide fertility is plummeting and looks set to grow at far less than 1%.



Fertility of 2.1 is effectively 0% population growth due to accidental deaths. I fully expect the global fertility will continue to drop maybe even below 2.1. The primary driver of human reproduction the link between human reproductive activity and human procreation has been severed by contraceptive technology. The necessity of modern education increasingly consumes our prime reproductive years and this demand will only grow in the future. Children are no longer an economic boon but a great cost for parents so increasingly only those very interested in them will have them. Automated robots and learning algorithms will increasingly consume low level jobs so even those wanting large families may be unable to find the work to support them. See:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/leela-zero-and-gradual-rise-of-ai-4359289

I am doubtful that we will see even a single population doubling from our current level.  

I think there no point arguing about estimates. We might get a nuclear war in 15 years or a global Islamic caliphate and all estimates will be blown in either direction.

Religiosity also is a factor. Ultra religious groups have substantially higher birth rates and there still millions if not billions of very religious people.

I am hoping sex education in high growth zones will reduce the global growth rate.

We will have to wait and see who's estimates will be closer to the real number.

Personally I will be going to Mars where hopefully we have no religion.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
May 31, 2018, 03:51:11 PM

UN has been consistently wrong about this.

It is not my estimate. It is math.

Global population growth rate oscillates between 1-2%.

Look up "doubling time" or "rule 72".

The rough formula for doubling time is:
70 divided by the growth rate.

If the global population growth rate stays at 1% the population will double in 70 years no matter what anybody thinks.

If the rate goes back up to 2%, the population will double in 35 years.

There is nothing to argue.  The only thing you can do is to try to estimate the growth rate.

Moving less educated people from less educated countries (Africa, Middle-East, Latin America where the average IQ is around 85 or lower) to more affluent countries will increase the global growth rate not decrease it.  

I think the global growth rate will stay above 1% for some time.  Unless some major diseases kick in and increase the death rates.

In one doubling time, there will be 1 person per 10,000 square meters.  In five doubling times, there will be 1 person per 625 square meters (~6700 sq ft) LOL.

You think humanity will survive five doubling times here on Earth?

PS. It looks like we are going to reach 8 billion in 2022-2023.
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-population-by-year/

I think human life on earth could survive three doubling times. Not sure about five.

I have been to India. The population density there is 382 per square kilometer. It is pretty crowded there already though they get by. Total population density of the world right now is about 55 per square kilometer (excluding Antarctica because that not really habitable with current technology). Three population doublings would take the population to about 60 billion and make the global population density about 440 per square kilometer 15% higher then that of India today.

That would be pretty crowded but I suspect technology, technological advances and human ingenuity could handle that much provided we cooperate and don't do anything too stupid. Even using your not so accurate projection of a population growth of 1% a year that is 210 year of technological progress to handle the growth.

Also your guess is likely to be wildly inaccurate. Population growth is likely to be far less than 1%. I am not an expert on the data but my understanding is that the UN estimates tend to error on the side of overestimating growth rates. Also worldwide fertility is plummeting and looks set to grow at far less than 1%.



Fertility of 2.1 is effectively 0% population growth due to accidental deaths. I fully expect the global fertility will continue to drop maybe even below 2.1. The primary driver of human reproduction the link between human reproductive activity and human procreation has been severed by contraceptive technology. The necessity of modern education increasingly consumes our prime reproductive years and this demand will only grow in the future. Children are no longer an economic boon but a great cost for parents so increasingly only those very interested in them will have them. Automated robots and learning algorithms will increasingly consume low level jobs so even those wanting large families may be unable to find the work to support them. See:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/leela-zero-and-gradual-rise-of-ai-4359289

I am doubtful that we will see even a single population doubling from our current level.  
newbie
Activity: 112
Merit: 0
May 31, 2018, 03:23:19 PM
health and religion had always crossed together. im sure, that some diet traditions in many cultures were made through the huge experience of our ancetors and thats why it is helpful and healthy
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
May 31, 2018, 03:58:34 AM

Income is only one factor.  The education level is probably a more significant factor that affects the birth rates.

Humanity would be better off if the birth rates were just above or equal to the death rates, i.e. if the population growth would be close to zero.

Pollution, wars, depleting resources come to mind.  The global population should not be growing at 1%, it should be more like 0.001%.  It would give us enough time to develop technology to search for a new home, outside of Earth.  Population doubling every 70 years will make this much more difficult.


Educational level is definitely a big factor with a few exceptions. Some religious groups have been shown to have more children at higher educational levels but that is the exception rather then the rule.

Your population growth estimate of doubling every 70 years is much too high. Population growth is slowing around the globe.

World population projected to reach 9.8 billion in 2050, and 11.2 billion in 2100

https://www.un.org/development/desa/en/news/population/world-population-prospects-2017.html

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