Topic: Hello! New Bitcoin Exchange in town - page 3. (Read 6411 times)

Thats all irrelevant, Paypal will close you down once they suspect your using them to use Bitcoin. Period, no questions asked.

For instance, today we had an order in which everything matched except the phone area code.  I spoke with the customer extensively, and in every way he seemed to be legitimate, but because he was unable to provide a non-GoogleVoice phone number with an area code that matched his geographic location, we cancelled his order and refunded his payment.  Possibly 15% or more of our potential legitimate orders (not even the ones which are obviously carders) we regretfully decline and refund due to issues like this.  Yes, we may be losing some business, but we feel it is far better to err on the side of caution in this instance.

As a matter of fact, the very first order we ever received was someone trying to place an order with a stolen credit card.  When we contacted the person associated with the card, we discovered that he had not in fact placed an order with us, and were able to help him to report his card as stolen (he had no idea that it had been).  As a result, he is now a new member of the bitcoin community and he has given us a good review for the service we were able to provide him, albeit not in bitcoins.

The buyers are not at risk, so you're saying they will not buy from us on principle alone?  May I also ask why anyone would issue charge backs for the reason you just stated, other than out of sheer maliciousness?  I am having a hard time understanding why someone would do that when we are doing everything possible to protect the customer from being defrauded, but you are saying that is exactly the reason people *should* defraud us?  This makes no sense, sir.


So why would the CEO of a multi-million dollar organization have lots of stolen credit card numbers to use?

Look, we understand the concern you are all expressing about our business model, given the number and types of failures you've seen previously.  I also don't think you fully understand the level of research I do into every. single. PayPal order.  I have verified statements coming from the customer verbally stating that they are buying the bitcoins, the order area code, billing address, and IP address all must geographically match, check to be sure that the phone number is not a GoogleVoice or other calling service number, match the email that the order was submitted with to the PayPal account, and in cases when I feel there is still a possibility of fraud, even do further research which I'm not willing to mention here.  Even if someone DOES charge back with my new processor, I can and will prove that it's a fraudulent chargeback and win, if someone even manages to get that far in the first place.

QuickBitcoins, don't get us wrong.  We are trying to help you here.  You have a nice site and I am sure you and your wife put a lot of effort into this.  But if you accept paypal for BTC, you will have a lot of customers (X), and will most likely lose a lot of money. 

Nothing.

I broke up my 10 year multi-million dollar relationship and closed my 4 other accounts with them the same day. I was processing 100k+ a day on my various retail sites thru Paypal.


Your not understanding something here, forget chargebacks as you understand it.

Everything your doing is preventing someone from wanting to chargeback if they are not satisfied with the product.

Scammers will use your system to use stolen and hacked cc'd to buy Bitcoin, and then your the one who has to bear the loss.

If you want, I can easily bypass your verification system with a stolen credit card, buy Bitcoin once a day over a few weeks, and then watch as the owners slowly call their banks to claim fraud and your cc processor drops you. I will do this for you to prove a point, no ill intentions but you will lose over $10k at least. Out of your pocket.

Would you rather me do it, or a scammer?

I'm going to try to help you one more time. Please take the time to read this: http://www.aboutpaypal.org/

If, after reading, you still decide to include PayPal as part of your business plan, then expect to receive 0 customers from this forum. I take that back. Expect to receive X customers from this forum to use your exchange, all of which will issue a charge back.

~Bruno~

The key is to prevent having chargebacks in the first place.  This is why we go to such lengths to verify the authenticity of each buyer before we will accept and fill any order.  As stated before, we ARE aware of the fact that PayPal can and possibly will lock down our account.  By withdrawing the money and limiting the size of PayPal transactions, we are ensuring that the total loss will be at most the size of one transaction, which is more than offset by the profit gained by using PayPal in the first place.  Also, as previously stated, PayPal is only a temporary solution during the time in which it takes to get going with another credit card processor.  

What did they do when you showed them the written permission they gave you?

One of us works days, the other works nights.  It really is just as simple as that.

Coming from someone who has tried working with Paypal with their specific written permission of being allowed to do so, and then having them close your account and freezing your funds for 180 days, its not worth it.

I repeat, Paypal still has over $15,000 of my funds frozen for another 90 days.

BULLSHIT!

Exactly! And one way they could do it is the following: At noon, you have $0 in your PayPal account. At 12:05, PayPal needs to debit your account $X, but your account currently has $0. At 12:43, a client of yours deposit $(X + Y). At 12:43:01, PayPal deducts the $X they feel is rightfully theirs, thus leaving you with only $Y. That's the good news. The bad news? Wait for it! At 12:43:02, PayPal locks your account.

Here's a new question for you. Are you going to take the time to find and read the over two dozen threads consisted of other businesses using this business model, thus proving it won't work, or do you want us users to use are valuable time and hunt them down for you?

Sorry!  I misunderstood the question you were asking to be how we were running things in general, rather than specifically about removing the funds from PayPal.  Whenever we receive an email alert notifying us of a payment from PayPal, a very loud audible alarm is set to go off.  There is always at least one of us at home, and the alarm ensures that we can transfer the funds immediately. ;-)

That won't make much a difference.

If you have a 0 balance in your Paypal account and someone charges back, Paypal will debit your account for the amount.

You said you told the bank to not allow this kind of debit. If thats true (I find it difficult to believe) Paypal will then invoice you and stop at nothing to collect the payment.

Whatever you think you can do to stop it, someone else as thought of it already.

Paypal will get their money.

I have to admit that that's an excellent answer, albeit I'm not sure what question it's in reference to. You clearly stately that any money that hits your PayPal account will be withdrawn within a hour. I asked how the heck you and your wife are planning on doing that. One reason I asked is that I tried to come up with a solution in my head as to how I would accomplish such a task and an answer thus far has eluded me, hence hoping to read a reply from you as to how exactly you plan on doing it.

~Bruno~

For the moment, the higher rate serves a twofold purpose.  One, obviously, is to help us bootstrap our business.  The other, however, is to help keep order volume low enough that we can simultaneously do business while creating and implementing a more automated system which can handle a higher order volume and thus be easier for the two of us to handle.

I'll echo Bart's sentiments and will no longer infer you as a scammer, albeit the questions may get tougher from me, and surely by others. May I offer up one piece of advice? Always respond to each comment/question with the utmost professionalism, for the moment you start barking, it's all over. That said, I'll state here that you've handled yourself quite well considering what you've contended with thus far.

That said (honestly, I dislike that phrase), in re. what I've quoted above: Exactly how do you and your wife plan on accomplishing that feat? Will you be sleeping in shifts? See what I mean about questions getting tougher (and weirder)?

~Bruno~

Be careful with anything you have to run manually.  BTC trades 24/7.

The moment any money hits PayPal I withdraw it. Usually within the hour. I have also spoken to my bank and removed PayPal's ability to debit my account. They can only make deposits.

OK, after reading your CV and so on I have decided that you are not a scammer.  But, my question to you is this:  during your huge amount of research you must surely have discovered that the Bitcoin roadway is littered with the rotting carcasses of many, many honest companies that have tried to do EXACTLY the same thing - and I mean exactly.    Are you sure you want to have all of your PayPal assets frozen for months on end?  When this happens, and I do mean when, are you ready to make all your customers whole out of your own pocket?  I am concerned more for you now than for your customers - since I am currently assuming you are not here to scam.